DIY: 2nd and 2.5nd Gen Differential Regear at home (not for beginners)

3/25/2021: Check out the updated post on my website at DIY Tundra Regear @ FrugalFill.com where I have included links to the tools.

I've researched this topic for a few months, reached out a few shops with very unenthusiastic quotes and no call backs, then finally decided screw it; I've got a bunch of time right now and enjoy knowing that I've "done it right". Maybe... This thread is intended as a mediocre guide to doing a regear and/or differential rebuild at home, but also just to document it for myself and hopefully some others can learn from my mistakes or chime in with tips. I'm not going to go into any depth on gearing choices and part selection, that info already exists on this forum elsewhere.

I will update this post with any additions or changes to tools and parts used.

Parts
GPTUNDRA5.7-5.29 Nitro gear 5.29 full kit (maybe avoid Nitro, I've heard of too many rear gear set noise issues now to be comfortable recommending them)

Front and rear ring and pinion sets
Front and rear master install kits​

5420134 Auburn Pro rear LSD
12 qts gear oil - 2 for front, 4 for rear for break in, then 6 more for after break in. I would recommend a high quality 75w-90 like valvoline, redline, amsoil. I can't figure out why Nitro sells 80w-140, it's just too thick and may cause bearing whine.
Differential plug gasket kit, Amazon
Extra various OEM rear parts just in case or for tool creation

4123134030 Spacer sleeve
411150C010 Oil retainer plate
4218136060 Diff paper gasket (I know most people just use the FIPG)
90311A0008 Rear pinion seal​

Extra various OEM front parts just in case or for tool creation

4123134040 Crush sleeve
903114600 Pinion seal
0029501281 Toyota Orange FIPG gasket​

Extra various OEM pinion preload shims see table in rear regear post #2

Resources
OEM service manual (2007-2010 manual carries over all specs thru 2021)
Nitro gear website installation instructions
ZUK's install page (so much info here! thank you!) http://gearinstalls.com/
Not a Tundra but very detailed descriptions https://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Gear_Setup/
YouTube video specific to Tundra 10.5" rear, not a regear video but goes over all the adjustments and parts in depth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAqAqODmcj4
YouTube video LC200 series front 9" clamshell air locker install, not a regear so it only deals with ring gear swap over, nothing on the pinion end but good to see what you're getting into, even better if you're doing an air locker too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZNAYKIwjoA


Tools
Various standard hand tools for differential removal (covered in other threads)
Bench mount for transmissions/differentials (not required but nice to have)
Prussian blue or yellow gear marking compound (the yellow stuff comes with the kits)
12 ton Harbor freight shop press
Various press adapters and sockets, you will have to make a few tools (HF FWD wheel bearing kit is a great start that I used extensively through this project)
Large bearing separator (the Shankly 1/2"-4-3/8" pictured size is NOT big enough, get the 1/2"-9" range) Recommend OTC 1130 now pictured below it
1/4" drive beam style torque wrench
Adapters to fit your 1/2" drive sockets onto your tiny torque wrench
Brass drift
Deadblow hammer
Dial indicator with magnetic base
Lever style dial indicator for front diff backlash
Vernier calipers and/or micrometers

The goods




Some of the new tools for the job (Estimate ~$600 of "special tools" including the correct bigger bearing separator and the 12 ton HF press!)


New pic

 

Rear differential rebuild is complete.

Edit 2/1/23: There's some accounts of people having issues getting axle shaft splines to fit properly into new carriers (LSD and locker). Protip: slide axle shafts into carrier before assembling rear gear set to make sure you can get the splines to engage. If not, STOP, evaluate the need for warranty replacement or modification to fit.

Starting on the rear, biggest tip (from a fellow forum member @ZPMAN) is to slot the rear brake line brackets and only loosen all the bolts to the ebrake. No need to completely disassemble the pesky entire rear ebrake assemblies.


Zip tie the driveshaft up out of the way


Quite a bit of engagement here, had to pull the shafts out far enough to allow the 108lb 3rd member to pop out


Initial checks on the stand. 0.010" backlash on at least 3 teeth all measuring same. Pretty low bearing preload total, and about none pinion alone. This oil looked a little black and degraded so these bearings might have some wear even at 50k miles. No water in the oil but it could have been in there and cooked out over time. All bearings will be replaced. Quick pattern check just for reference. Drive side very centered but coast didn't stick, I laid the blue on too thick maybe. I'm told used gear patterns are hard to read anyhow.




Mark the carrier bearing caps before removal, dot matrix.


Blasted the pinion nut off with air impact, electric impact wasn't strong enough, pinion seal lip shows some damage


Pinion shims above the spacer, one stuck to the bearing race not pictured here.


Stripped housing awaiting creation of a custom tool for bearing race without damaging the oil retainer. I also ordered another retainer so I can just ham fist it out if need be. (I did)


Made the "washer tool" and in my haste forgot that I was trying to get the race out, not the oil retainer. So I mashed the retainer out backwards instead, allowing easy unobstructed access to the bearing race. Don't be like me. This would have worked otherwise.


I also found a suitable press sleeve for the pinion bearing 1-1/2" steel nipple, 6" long should do it.


So now I have a stripped housing just waiting for oil retainer order from Sparks parts, and the OTC 1130 bearing separator to show up and I should be ready for assembly and setup.
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Sunday delivery from Sparks Toyota, thanks guys! and FedEx! Got some OEM seals because if you're in it this far you don't want to do it again, spare crush sleeve for the front and spacer for the rear since I think I'll use the old one to make a press tool, and the coveted oil retainer ring!


All tapped in flush with new races, it took a bit to get the inner pinion race started straight because it's off set under one of the carrier bearing pedestals a bit, but once it was started I took it to the HF shop press for an easy seating.


I made sure the outer bearing and oil retainer were seated fully with a little $20 Amazon endoscope that I got for Christmas last year, thing has come in handy in those hard to see spots.



Next up was to start on the new carrier assembly. The "ring gear" bolts that came with the Nitro master install kit were a 12.9 grade 18mm head with a 26.4mm flange and blue thread locker compound instead of the OEM (unknown grade) 22mm head with 30.4mm flange and coated in a red threadlocker. All the master install kits I found online said "does not come with ring gear bolts" so I'm not sure what I got.


Since a 14mm thread at any grade/lube isn't yielded at OEM spec of 145 ft*lbs and Zuk always seems to reuse to OEM - OEM it is! Cleaned them up in preparation...


Ensure your part number is correct and record the ring gear number, it better match the number on the pinion gear as well. These things are only made to be used in matched pairs! '56'


It's recommended to run a flat file over the back side of the ring gear and the mating flange of the carrier, as well as inspect the teeth for chips or dings that need to be cleaned up. I didn't find anything on either side other than discoloration that couldn't be caught with a fingernail, but smoothed the edges over a touch nonetheless and cleaned off any rust preventative goop that was coating them.


I didn't chill the carrier or heat the gear, they started going together with a deadblow but stopped. Since I was able to get a few of the bolts started all around it, I just easily pressed it on the rest of the way starting all the bolts to make sure it was aligned. DO NOT draw the gear on with the bolts. Perfect!


Ready for a red loctite coating and to be torqued down but I ran out of time tonight.


Torqued to spec in a star pattern and gone all around a few extra times to make sure I didn't miss any.


Get all those shims measured and marked out ready. The nitro shims were not the same exact ID/OD as the Toyota but should do the trick anyway.


56 on the pinion matches my ring. Also the ring gear has a backlash .007 marking and I believe a pinion depth from centerline measurement but that won't help us, we'll be in the ballpark copying OEM setup anyway.



Without having the right puller yet to get the pinion bearing off the old, I shoved some shims in like feeler gauges to take a stab at 0.0435 pinion shim for round 1. Dang that's a big difference in pinion head size. Remember to clean all the rust preventative goop off the new pinion before pressing the bearing on.


Pressing on the new carrier bearings. Support the lip on the bottom side once the first bearing is on otherwise you'll damage the opposite side from the one you're working on.


Slap it all together with no pinion shims or seal. Play with carrier bearing preload shims to get backlash in spec. It seems my new carrier is a little wider than the stock one, or I just need to mash some more spacers in but got .007" backlash pretty easily. Mix some gear oil with the yellow goop to make it smoother and easier to read. My first pattern was illegible.


Bolt carrier bearing caps on and tighten up. Apply some load to the carrier as you pass it back and forth the pinion head a few times. I found a little pry bar on the ring gear was the best and most consistent. Here's pattern 1 at 0.0435" pinion depth shim. Too deep I'd say from my limited experience.



As a bonus I accidentally aligned my reverse painted teeth to cover on top of the blue gear marking I tried as a second opinion for myself. Still deep.


Paint well down low on the pinion and comet tail not centered agrees Pinion too deep. Tool shows up today so I'll try again.


OTC 9" bearing separator showed up today. Man this thing is HUGE, broke out the big boy wrenches to tighten it down, over to the HF press and it popped the OEM pinion bearing off ::bing:: no sweat.


Reduced pinion shim thickness by .008" to .0355" and tried it again. Drive slight deep, coast centered up nicely, and don't forget that pinion comet tail Zuk is always talking about!




Time to pull it all back apart a couple more times to set pinion bearing preload, install seal, and call it done!
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Not so fast there turbo, wouldn't be a learning experience without more setbacks now would it! Turns out that no combination of the two pinion bearing preload shims combined with any of the thinner shims from the Nitro master install kit would get me on the money. But somewhere within a ~0.009" window. So back to the internet I go to ultimately land on some part numbers from ZUK (dude is a genius) where I made a tabel to see what I needed to order to get it done right. Order placed to Roman!

Grey is what shims I had OEM, with all the Nitro shims and the thick OEM shim I could get up to the 0.1650" in orange but still not thick enough. With the thinnest Nitro shim and both the OEM preload shims I could get down to 0.1741" in orange and almost 0 preload. All the feint light green cells between the two are the potential combinations that could work. Sit back and relax it's gunna be a while.


_______________________________________________________________
I finally got back to the rear end after finishing up and installing the front. The shim table was awesome to guide me; press out, press in, and iteratively hone in on the ideal preload shim. You must check the pinion preload with the nut torqued to spec. Here's the shims I landed on from my table to yield somewhere about 20-25inlb starting preload in the middle of the spec for new bearings.


Here's the torquing jig made from the leftover angle from the front diff press stand.


Once preload was confirmed - press the pinion out one last time. Toss in the oil slinger, and install the seal. I chose to use an OEM over the Nitro supplied seal. Tap it flush, the FWD press kit had a sleeve that worked perfectly.



Reinstall the pinion, torque the nut to spec (224 ft lbs), tap on the pinion both ends and the housing to make sure the bearings are seated, spin it a few times and confirm pinion preload. Still in spec, as Zuk would say "ding"!


Now for the carrier end, we need to balance backlash and also get some additional preload which is difficult to do tapping these shims in. I found that using the correct OEM thick shim is way easier than a stack of thin Nitro supplied shims so I measured a bunch, ordered a few, and wound up using these after a couple of iterations.


Torque the caps to spec, tap on the bearing caps lightly just to make sure they're seated like the pinion bearings. Measure preload perpendicular to the tooth. It's recommeded to measure in at least 3 places, many more is fine too for the sticklers. Measuring a perfect 0.007" minimum on a handful of places around the ring, I didn't bother measuring every tooth or every other since it was very consistent.



All dialed in, now take the carrier bolts back out one by one and add some blue loctite, torque to spec 151 ft lbs.


One last pattern for good measure. Feeling pretty confident in that!


When I say DIY I mean I'm doing it by myself, so I had to get creative with the reinstall of the over 100lb chunk. Using a motorcycle lift I got it close and then adjusted my jack stands to make it align perfect. It fell right in. Filled with Nitro oil and buttoned up, it drives! Break in time.

 

Front regear post is complete with all pictures added.

Alright. Its time. Let's get after it. Jack up the front on stands, remove front wheels, remove skid plates, drain diff fluid. The oil in the front came out much cleaner than the rear, is this because the front only sees load when in 4wd? Or am I still right to suspect the rear might have had some water ingress damage?


Unhook the ADD wiring harness and vacuum line. Unbolt the 2 large lower ball joint bracket bolts each side. Carefully jack up the spindle at the rotor, swinging it up and forward until the CV is in a straight line and extended a little bit out from the diff. Don't pull too hard or you'll pop the CV out of the tulip and end up having to take those apart too. But this give you plenty of play to get in behind the edge of the CV at the diff end with a block of wood and a big hammer to pop them out. Stuff the CV stub ends up out of the way somewhere. I like to put a plastic bag over them.



Mark the driveshaft and flange so that you can reinstall it in the same orientation. Undo the 14mm nuts and washers, the 17mm headed studs will stay in the flange. Knock the drive shaft with a rubber mallet to get it loose, it will compress in the slip joint so you can wedge it back against the transmission. Then unbolt the 4x diff mounting bolts, 1x diff mounting nut, and slowly lower it down. Stop and unbolt the 12mm headed breather bracket and disconnect the breather line that you forgot earlier, this must be your first time eh? Some remaining oil will most likely dribble out of the long axle tube end it you want to attempt to keep your garage floor or driveway clean.


Now that it's out this would be a good time to clean it up before getting into it. Unbolt the ADD motor, diff bracket, and 4 bolts holding the long tube shaft to the clamshell.


Record initial measurements on seal depths, backlash, total preload, etc.
I realized that it is pretty much required to have a LEVER DIAL INDICATOR to measure the backlash at a right angle, so thank you Amazon Prime, I'll see you tomorrow. A regular depth type dial indicator just can't get the proper angle on the face of a gear tooth down through the drain hole. More on this later.

The stub shaft snap ring wouldn't cooperate from the outside so I had to split the cases and gently tap on the carrier end to coax it out. Only then can you separate the the carrier from the lid.


The clamshell housing being used to figure out bolt hole spacing for the vertical press fixture. I made this from some 1/4" steel plate, and 3"x5"-1/4" angle iron with some really poor welding skills on a borrowed welder. This is an attempt to get the driveshaft flange as level as possible to press the pinion out easily.


Using the FWD bearing removal tool to pull the dual row ball bearing smoothly up and out of the pinion housing into the tool cup.


Again using the FWD bearing kit rings to punch out the old carrier bearing races, making note of the factory washer plate thickness, then tapping in the new races. You'll know they're seated when you can't spin the washer shim plate anymore by hand.


Next up, pulling the old parts off the carrier and installing new. This clamshell style bearing puller tool is not required but I wanted to have it on hand just in case the OTC bearing splitter dind't work. The bearing splitter works fine, although the best tool for this job is a 2 jaw puller to fit into the two recesses under the carrier bearing race. BUT I paid for this fancy tool so dammit I'm gunna use it!

Brap, rips the bearings off with ease.


Drop the ring gear off with a couple of mallet taps. Make note of the excess loctite boogers everywhere.


5.29 on top, 4.30 on bottom with copper colored marking compound from factory?


Ring gear bolts cleaned up by hand.


Make note of the new ring and pinion serial numbers, they better match again!' "123"

"123" with heavy rust preventative coating still on it


Flat file and clean up both ring gear mating surfaces. My carrier also needed lots of old loctite cleaned out of the thru holes. The new ring gear tapped up onto the carrier by hand working my way around tightening in 4 bolts BY HAND, do NOT use the bolts to draw the ring gear up.


Red loctite to 101 ft*lbs. Double check again. Paint mark, hopefully your paint pen doesn't dribble as much as mine.


Pressing on the new carrier bearings, the carrier shoulder sits slightly proud of the bearing race so you'll need to use a press tool that presses only on the bearing race. Again the HF FWD wheel bearing kit has the perfect sized tool.


Since this shoulder sits proud you technically don't need a puck underneath carrier when you flip it over to press the other bearing on, but its reassuring to make sure you can keep spinning the bearings by hand as you press to make sure you're not damaging them.


I then took some extra time to clean up all the old FIPG from both clam halves, axle extension housing, and ADD actuator mounting surfaces. I also touched up the case dowels with some sandpaper and cleaned their mating bores out well so it's a little easier to test fit them together. Before getting to the pinion end I test fit the case halves together, there's a very little space between them that couldn't be taken up without bolting them together, most likely a touch too much carrier bearing preload but we'll run a pattern first and see if backlash needs adjustment.


The outer pinion bearing and inner pinion bearing race slept in the freezer overnight to assist with installation. But that didn't help much, or at all. Getting the inner pinion bearing race in straight was a bear of job. The housing is curved in multiple planes and if it gets started a touch crooked, it gets jammed up good. Pound it back out and try again. I ended up working it in very slowly with the FWD wheel bearing kit by hand, no impact gun to blast this race in or you'll be doing it again. Another reason to NOT put the pinion depth shims under here, I chose to move them to pinion itself.


Starting with slightly thinner than OEM pinion shim (and also moving it from behind the inner pinion bearing race to between the pinion head and inner bearing on the shaft).



Paint up some teeth. Mix the yellow goop 1:1 with some gear oil and it paints on much smoother.


Now assemble, torque the case bolts to spec (small ones are 48ft lbs) and figure out how to measure backlash with the lever dial indicator. Showing .006" here (each graduation is 0.0005") but that'll work for a pattern. Preload is a little too tight with the OEM case shims as well so this will require some final adjustment once I get pinion depth correct.



0.077" shows probably perfect in the middle on the drive side but I wanted it a little deeper.


0.081" shows too deep, so lets split the difference. Good thing I have that bearing splitter, it works so well for this.



0.0785" slight deep, nice coast and pinion patterns too. That's what I'm looking for. This pattern looks "smaller" because I didn't preload the carrier enough with the needle nose pliers down through the axle shaft hole grabbing onto the crosspin. Had I loaded it more the pattern would have spread out a bit showing darker more defined marks.



Here's loaded more again later on after backlash adjustment to confirm pattern and show the pliers trick.

BAMMMMM


I need to increase backlash so I'll take some shim out of the lid side. There's some widely accepted correlation that .010" carrier shim shift one side to the other = 007" backlash change. I'll try swapping my two OEM shims that are .079ish and .0835 with each other, (~.0045" shift) that worked great! Leaving total carrier stack thickness as is, which same carrier and tight tolerance bearings it should be very similar if not the same as the factory build.
Tap tap.


This will work! .007 min all around.



Press the pinion back out for install of seal, 0.221 to 0.260 in.recessed per the FSM.


I got sick of tapping on the pinion flange to try and get the outer bearing on far enough to start the pinion nut so I setup an odd stack in the press but it worked! This is the pinion going back in with crush sleeve and oil slinger installed.


I did exactly what they tell you not to do and torqued past my desired preload on the crush sleeve. This means press pinion back out and try again with a new part. Luckily I predicted this would happen and I already had a spare crush sleeve on hand. This SST for torquing it worked very well though.


I did a quick bolt together with case bolts torqued to spec just to confirm preloads and backlash were still good, they were the same. So onto the Toyota FIPG. 11 small case bolts get blue loctite and 48 ft lbs. The big 3 bolts got a hand tightening. They'll be torqued with the other diff mounts later on during install.


And new drivers side axle seal tapped in flush.


Passenger side stub axle tapped back into place. A tip is to roll the c-clip on it so that opening is on the bottom so that it will most easily compress and pop back into it's mating groove. FIPG here and these bolts also only get 48ft lbs with blue loctite as well.


Make sure the ADD sleeve/collar/clutch ring is installed correctly BEFORE the last step, it should look like this and the forks on your ADD actuator fit into it easily. FIPG and 15 ft lbs here.


OEM consumables glamour shot


Slide it back under the truck, install is reverse of removal. Done!

 

Been considering this myself, I’ll see how it goes for you and see if it’s something I feel like tackling

 

Yaaaaasssss thanks for building a thread for this.

 

@blackoutt May have to start a ‘gear tool kit’ rental business haha.

 

If all goes well I may start doing gear setups for local Toyota buddies but I'm far from level expert. Only one way to get experience!

 

You got it dude! Practice makes perfect. Wish I was closer, I’d bring a lot of beers and some gears haha. Looking forward to the thread.

 

Who's a gear guy (or gal)? Or any other keyboard experts out there like me want to take a stab at analyzing the latest pattern in post 2?


Edit: Any other wagers?
An experienced gear install tech puts his money on 0.010" deep = 0.0335" shim
Kidnapped Tundra 0.017" deep from first pattern = 0.0265" shim


Sounds so skinny, the stock shim measured in at 0.047"

 

I will go .017 deep.

What is the prize for the winning guess, popcorn?

 

impressed. nice job.

same but i'm still thinking i'm better off continuing to save pennies for this job.

 

Please let us know how the gear do on the highway friend. I just got a used 2015 Tundra and I got bumper to bumper insurance so if my rear gears break maybe I can pay the difference and have them install 5.29 gears if you say they are good on the highway. Thank you

 

Awesome job OP. I'd love to tackle this as a fun project but for me right now the financial risk when effing something up as well as the time needed to do it makes me more comfortable paying a shop.

But even then, having a professional shop handle it makes me nervous.

 

Jerad from Just Differentials wins! I moved the pinion out 0.008" (thinner shim between inner bearing and pinion head) slightly against his recommendation and we agreed it looks good, slight deep. Run it! Pics will go back up in post 2 with the rest of the rear end saga.

But anyway consolation prize
Kind of similar to the celebration donuts everyone's been bringing into the "office" since we've been working from home for a couple months, just not as satisfying.

 

, LOL. Damn it, I can't even do that right. I go to work everyday. I have asked if I could work from home, they just babble something about I can't take the bus home and I have to drive my routes.

Or something like that

 

Speaking of regear, just finished this 12 bolt for my father's car. It's painted and finally ready

 

Good call.

 

How much would it have cost to remove third member and sent in to a gear shop to rebuild and return to you ready to reinstall, and how much did you spend doing the whole job yourself including new tools? Was it worth the savings? I am thinking about rewearing my tundra. There are a couple of shops i could send it to to get rebuild/exchanged

 

Pulling both diffs myself and shipping out for regear was I believe around $4k. Getting regeared at a local shop that I don't trust was around $4.5k. I think I'll end up around $2500 for front and rear gear kits, rear Auburn LSD, gear oil, spare OEM seals, loctite, FIPG, shims, tools I needed, some tools I didn't need. So if you live in an area where shops will regear for under $500 labor per diff just pay someone else to do it! Haha. I'm doing it myself because first of all I am cheap, but also to pass the time, learn a new skill, have satisfaction that it's done to my liking, and be equipped do to it again in the future either for myself or possibly others.

 

I added up my totals, parts, consumables, tools and drumroll please....







.... $2508.63

So in theory if you had all the tools already and went bare minimum you could do a full 2nd or 3rd gen regear for around $1,300 with oil if you catch a good sale.

 

not bad. how many hours did you put in? our yard already looks a little like the clampetts so, i suppose having the truck on jacks without wheels for a couple of weeks would just add to the aesthetic...

it's really tempting to tackle this one. i'm just concerned with the time involved and setting up the gears.

 

All the little tools, LSD, spare OEM parts just in case add up. If you know what you're doing and have the tools you literally only need GPTUNDRA5.7 gear kit and oil. But I'm a noob and like having spare stuff on hand. Apparently not the right spare stuff though as I've waited for multiple orders.

Rear budget 1.5 hrs to pull, 1.5 hrs to reinstall and refill.
Rear setup labor I would estimate at around 3-4 hrs total maybe? I spend LOTS more time researching, tool and parts runs, and over analyzing each step of the way.
So I think the rear could be a 1 man Saturday if you've got everything on hand.

Front is TBD
Target is 2hrs to pull
6-8hrs to setup
2hrs to reinstall and fill

Total calendar time is going to be more like 1 month down though. I only work on it a couple hours at a time and if I hit a stopping point or waiting on an order I just stop. I could be pulling the front out right now but don't want parts everywhere and am in no rush.

 

I’m so nervous to try this. I’d feel much better removing the gears and bringing to a gear shop.

 

i've considered a core swap with ecgs. however, pulling it and dropping it off somewhere might not be a bad idea. when i checked pricing for the full job (parts + labor + arb locker), it varied from $4500-7500.

'hey honey, i need to put this massive, dirty, greasy truck part in your car and drive it across town.'
'wait. what?'
'cool. back in a bit.'

 

Ya I’m pretty much pooched for gears unless I find a cheaper way than paying for full install. Everything here is about 25% more because the currency exchange as well so that hurts. The only way I miiight get gears is if I buy my wife another horse and three horse trailer that is heavier haha.

 

I'm just gonna order the full pre-built 3rd member for the rear and plop it in then pay to do the front.

 

Not sure this would work on a technical level, but somebody should sell the complete new diff with gears installed ready to go on the truck and take your OEM diffs to use for the next order.

Might be more diy friendly this way and much less down time. Not sure how much that might save on labor compared to someone doing the whole thing.

If a shop did this they'd have to invest in a couple diffs to have on hand and they could always have a couple with 4.88 ready to go out the door.