What am I missing here?

I'll be towing through the mountains this summer and will have my scanguage hooked up and see how things go. Hopefully I'll be surprised.

 

You will see higher temps than with the old cooling system but nothing that's going to give you problems. The 19/20's run warmer. These are my temps in -10 temps pulling nothing.

 

But if it’s more efficient than oil to air, then shouldn’t you see lower temps? I disagree that the new design is better and don’t think any other truck manufacturer removed their atf coolers for an exchanger. Have you ever seen a 3/4 or 1 ton truck manufacturer remove an atf cooler that had been on the pretty much same model truck?

I don’t think the new system will blow up, but I also think there was another reason for removing it other than Toyota suddenly deciding after 12 years of having a cooler that it now wasn’t needed.

 

The 5.7l runs a constant 200F and the tranny temps run close to that temp. It would have to and running slightly higher temps isn't going to harm anything. The Tundra tranny is one of the most reliable in the truck world with very few failures. Toyota isn't going to chance screwing up that trust. The domestic trucks are still using an air to oil cooler but pretty sure their failure rate is considerably higher than the Tundra.

 

Yes, in the 19/20s with no cooler. My trans stays around 185-195. About 10* cooler than the engine because I have an air cooler. The thermostat opens around 195. The 07-18 have both systems - the exchanger and air cooler. Having both can dissipate more heat when under stress. Maybe not a big enough difference to matter, but for a straight comparison the pre 19/20s run cooler.

After having a cooler for 11 model years, I don’t believe Toyota suddenly said in 19 it wasn’t needed and removed it. They felt it was needed 07-18. They even had a chance to remove it when they integrated it with the ac condenser in mid 10. There was another reason for removing it. And probably around 10% of tundras owner tow, so yes I believe they are taking their chances with the failure rate.

I am 50% failure rate on transmissions. My 2010 went out at just under 60k miles. They only replaced the trans even though it had metal shaving in it. It ran hot after that, like up to 240/250. Finally I replaced the ac/trans cooler and then it was normal and stayed around 180/190. So the air cooler made a huge difference.

 

So I'm guessing neither does adding stiffer springs or "helper" springs?

 

No, it doesn't do anything to legally raise the GVWR.

 

Transmission oil has come along way when the air tranny cooler was designed to the Tundra in 2007. The question is what is a suitable safe temperature that the transmission can operate. A higher tranny temperature isn't necessarily going to cause a higher failure rate. I'm not an engineer and I'm betting neither are you. I'm just a Toyota dealer tech with over 30 years experience. Your experience with your transmission is the exception. We do very few transmission in Tundras. It really comes down to whether you trust Toyota engineering at this point. If you really do feel that Toyota is compromising their reliability to save a couple of bucks I suggest you move on to a different manufacturer.

 

The payload number printed on the door jam doesn't change by adding helper springs as far as your insurance company and the law are concerned.

 

So legally, it doesn't help the payload capacity, but physically it does? I wonder if it is possible to get the payload rating changed with an inspection?

 

By adding a suspension aid your truck would be able to handle a heavier payload better and the handling would also improve. Not sure how you could get the payload rating changed but I couldn't imagine it would be cheap. Someone would have to do the testing on a product for that specific vehicle and then stick there neck out and say it was now safe to a specific payload number. Personally I feel the Tundra payload number is low compared to other 1/2 ton trucks and you could safely exceed the payload number on a properly equipped truck. The law and your insurance company will have a different prospective.

 

I heard an internet rumor/story that someone was able to do that with a great deal of work - it was probably BS.

There is a lot that goes into it, as mentioned before. Suspension, brakes, frame strength, etc. Just slapping new springs on isn't the answer.

 

I never said Toyota is comprising their reliability to save a few bucks, I said I think there was another reason for removing it. Ive heard it was the change in freon causing a change to the ac condenser making it so the integrated cooler wouldn't work anymore. No one knows but Toyota. I also see no change in the Toyota WS ATF from 07 to now. I got it, you are saying a tiny exchanger with hot coolant running through it is more efficient than the same exchanger plus an air cooler. I am saying that will not dissipate heat as fast as needed under extreme conditions. Yes, 10* doesn't matter and most wont be under extreme conditions. But also most Tundra owners do not tow, so the failure rate wont necessarily increase. There is no data right now for increased failure rates because 19s are still fairly new. Only the 19/20 owners saying its not needed when it apparently was for 11 years. I would suggest that, even with your 30 years of experience working on Corollas, you don't spread false information and wait on data to back up the claim its not needed.

Again, I am not implying Toyota is comprising reliability, I am clearly saying there is another reason it was removed that no one but Toyota knows. But Im sure the reason isnt that it was never needed because the tiny exchanger with hot coolant is more than enough if it was needed for 11 years and is on every other truck that can tow any kind of weight.

Yes, this is your thread about payload so i will leave now. I'm not going to convince you and you aren't going to convince me.

 

Oil changes all the time. Just because it's called WS doesn't mean there hasn't been improvements in the product. I'm not sure what false claims I'm making. I tend to be the type of person that doesn't run around saying the sky is falling in until I actually see evidence that there actually is a problem. Just because there is a design change does mean it's going to have a negative impact. Your not an engineer and implying that removing the air to oil heat exchanger is a problem is just speculation on your part. I think I would probably rely on the experience of the Toyota engineer over a forum armchair engineer and trust the design change.

 

@timsp8

I have a 2017 and a 2019 and tow all the time. Literally towing a 6,000ish lb trailer 5 times a week with the 2019 for work right now. I posted the temp differences as a winter baseline on a OBD2 thread after towing the same trailer under the same general conditions on the same roads. I’ll be hooking up a heavy equipment trailer this summer and will be positing up the comparisons on some hills (no mountains by any stretch - maybe 2500ft elevation change) I pull up on the way to my hunting camp. You can check out my winter numbers there.

 

I went back tenth rv dealer and change to a cougar 26rbs tow trailer, Maybe it was meant to be because the cougar is a great camper. Best of luck to all of you and get ready for spring camping.

 

The Cougar 26RBS will be my next camper. I have a Coachman 204RD which I like and pulled it with a Tacoma but now that I have a more capable Tundra the Cougar is on my short list.