Kind of off topic. Don't kill me.. Ram 1500 Limited vs Tundra.

You asked a loaded question designed to support your stance.

You must be new to the automotive world. Recalls are part of the game. I'd rather a MFG fix the problems then refuse to acknowledge them. Toyota of 2019 is not Toyota 1989 and has had plenty of catastrophic quality issues, (shrapnel airbags, stuck accelerators, rusty rails, engine pile gelling, etc). Toyota and many of its suppliers (Denso, etc) was also involved in one of the largest fraud cases ever regarding supplier price fixing. They are not saints.

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Still on the market without any major improvements in 12 years. And yes, the fanatics will argue "ain't broke don't fix it" but the reality is you'd also be mocking the competition endlessly for the same mentality.

The 2007 Tundra launched with the expectation of 300k units per year. 100k in Indiana and 200k for San Antonio. This is fairly modest considering the size of the US Truck market.

With a long 2007, they sold 196k units which quickly collapsed. 2011 was only 89k units, the refresh did nothing to improve sales (13 - 112k, 14 - 118k) and 18 was also 118k.

Compare that to RAM's continued growth.
2010- 199k
2014- 438k
2018 - 537k

Clearly they are doing something right and consumers are coming back and changing brands.

Back in 2007 Toyota had plans of a 2500 varient. They also seriously pondered adding a diesel. As far back as 2012 they had been in talk with a diesel manufacturer about procuring an EPA certified engine. (I was on the engine side of things).

Sales just don't generate enough revenue for new engines, chassis, suspension redesigns, desiels, hybrids, turbos, etc. They have their steadfast 110k buyers and they'll hold fast as long as the faithful remain strong.

 

I agree with you on GM being the least bad. My brother lives up north working forestry and going off roading with the guys on the weekend and that's what everyone up there swears by. Some guys are still running Duramaxes with half a million miles on them and the 5.3L V8 is also solid as long as you change oil often enough to avoid lifter problems. The only thing I would avoid on the GMs is the 8 speed transmissions.

My brother's girlfriend is a mechanic and says "when you buy one of the big 3, you choose what you want to eventually repair or replace. Ford: electrical system. Dodge: transmission. GM: front end steering and suspension components." In my opinion, one of those sounds easier than the other two...

I work on an industrial site and it's mostly Ford and GM. I've honestly seen more Tundras than Rams on our site, excluding the one contractor that's still running 15 year old Cummins.

 

You have your stance, I have mine. Have a good week

 

If Tundras suck so bad, why are you on a Tundra forum? Crawl back in your hole with your Ram and enjoy.

 

Hello, Corbic. I do think you are picking and choosing what to argue when you are comparing the Tundra and other competitor trucks. There can be sort of a generalization when you are arguing the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I don't think that can be used as an argument against the Tundra since it's a very opinionated statement. There are no facts to argue for or against it. Tundra owners want their reliability but some want the bells and whistles too and I don't think there's a manufacturer out there that can satisfy both consumers.

Even if someone were new to the automotive world, recalls can affect how someone views a brand. It obviously does you when you are listing recalls against Toyota. No one here is stating Toyota is not without it's faults but for a majority of people I see here, they seem to want to gamble on a more reliably stated brand.

Even if the Toyota Tundra is selling only 300k, does it look like Toyota is hurting for money. They are the world's number 1 vehicle manufacturer, they must be doing something right?

RAM's growth could be from the general public's perception of technology, price, and the ability to afford at a reasonable price. Reliability tends to go by the wayside when you have people who are looking for right now. Obviously, other than the Wrangler, resale price prove that.

 

Agreed. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good.

 

We have a customer that comes in, brand new Ram 1500, uses it for work, has 8000 miles and the engine keeps going into limp mode. Dealer cannot figure it out.

 

I have friends with RAMs, it’s a crapshoot, you might get a good one, you might get one that sees a shop more than usual. Your probability of reliability is higher with Tundra, it’s in their manufacturing philosophy. The caveats being simpler, some say dated, and higher gas consumption. Ultimately your decision, buy what you like most, filling the checkboxes you’re after. RAMs are nice, but not for me.

 

Beautiful truck, bought a new 2019 Big-Horn Crew in WI with Hemi and many nice options with MSRP of 51.8k (paid like 35.8 pre-tax) on Black Friday 2018. Sold it back to the dealer with 6,800 miles for 35k even 5 months later; why?

-Chrome clad 20's had rust on them, hard as hell to get off and keep off.
-Rockers had literally hundreds of stone chips that went deep into the primer (no plastic stone film, idiots).
-2 recalls that dealer could not get right and repeat problems with; display reboot (stereo and LED display went blank) and rear parking sensors were too sensitive and would lock up brakes backing out of garage.
-Had the non LED light version and the headlights were dim A.F.!

Just got tired of it quickly and wanted no rust the second winter.

Loved the coil spring ride, fantastic. Loved the interior, freeking luxurious. Loved the look too, monochromatic and tight A.F.

Hated the build quality and will never own an FCA product off warranty.

Bear

 

My order is Ford, GM then Ram.

I run 1 ton GMs with the Duramax/Allison combo at work. We have four of them. The engine and transmission combos are good. The rest of the trucks are not so good. We have a lot of little things like electrical gremlins and brake issues.

I have worked with a mission group in Mexico off and on for the last 7 years. They run passenger vans to move groups in and out of the mountains south of Monterrey. The leaders prefer Ford van because they hold up the best to the crappy roads and dusty conditions found in Mexico. They won't even consider a Dodge van anymore due to all the problems experienced in the past. Chevy vans are easier to find and they have a few of those, but they need constant work.

 

The biggest thing your going to get with a Toyota is the reliability and resell value. I have owned Toyota's since I was 16 and have always had great luck with the value that comes with them. I do know my family who has owned Fords have had countless problems that I typically did not see in my vehicles. Ram is a great truck with alot of new technology but given the past issues with reliability in Dodge Ill sacrifice some technology to know my truck is going to last. Just my opinion.

 

^This...exactly. When I was looking at replacing my 2012 F-150, my brother kept nagging to "Get a Hemi!" His 2011 Ram is in the shop as I write waiting for a brand new engine at 95k miles. Yep - he had the dreaded Cam/Lifter issue and metal got in the engine from the worn camshaft - toast. No way, under any circumstance should you have to replace an engine at that mileage (unless you ran it without oil, etc.). Learned real quick this is a common problem with the 5.7 Hemi motor. Thankfully - I got a 2019 Tundra SR DC - no bells, no fancy interiors...just a 5.7 V8 with 4WD because its a truck and I use it like a truck.

I had a top of the line 2012 F-150 and all my issues were with bells and whistles type features. The fancy electronics were junk - the Ford Sync product was garbage from Day 1. Had to replace my sunroof (common problem).

 

The 5.7 Hemi engines have a dual-purpose: at around 100k miles they become nice boat anchors when the Camshaft/lifters fail. Make sure you save lots of cash to either replace the Camshaft/lifters ($3.5k) or the engine if you're lucky!

 

Since I just finished my research and trying out Numerous trucks my choice is a 2019 Toyota Tundra TRD Pro.

After that I would say, based upon my test drives

GMC - Denali HD
Ram - Power Wagon
Ford - Never really an option

 

Just purchased a 2019 Tundra (Limited), bummed about a few bells and whistles, key less fob, some interior features. Very small price to pay for a truck model that has a good track record. I wouldn't not of wanted to purchase a updated Tundra for the same reason a lot of folks have already posted, you never want to be the first gen buyer. Having said that yes the American made trucks were tempting but bang for buck and piece of mind it was a no brainer for me.

 

71k

 

He had me until the seat stitching wasn't black.

 

I went on the Ram owner forum shortly after the 2019's were released. I couldn't believe how many owners were in the process to get their money back under lemon laws. That pretty much sums up Ram ownership.

 

Be cautious with generalizing "American made trucks"...According to the link below, Tundras are the "most American-made" truck between Chevy/GMC/Ram/Ford

https://www.american.edu/kogod/research/autoindex/

 

I don't like to "generalize" I was just being lazy, in truth and I really don't know why but I didn't even bother looking at Honda or Nissan. But to get comparisons I had to look at what I thought was the competitors. I found them all to be way over priced for what I needed and before I even started looking I assumed the Tundra would be more...

 

Which "American Made" trucks are you talking about? When I was looking to BUY a truck, the Tundra was as much, if not more "American Made" than the big 3.

 

American made in terms of where the profit goes as in where the company is based. If it's designed in Japan, and fabbed in USA I would not call that American made. Is it technically correct "shrugs" it's my view nobody has to subscribe

 

I noticed that too once I actually started looking. People always say Toyota is the most expensive but I can get a 4x4 CM SB Standard Package (formerly SR5) for ~$53k CAD. To get a 10 speed transmission (because of all the issues with the 8 speed) and front bucket seats in a GM requires a Sierra Elevation, which is about $10k CAD more. Ford seems to be about the same price as GM. You apparently can't even get heated seats in a Titan for less than $60k. I didn't look at Ram too carefully because their website is hard to use but they might be cheap, depending on the options you want. I suspect that's why you mostly see them in small towns.

 

With my limited I got all the bells and whistle I wanted ( I didn't realize I needed power fold LOL) and it's almost like getting in the wifes Lexus. No regrets, but I have to be up front I'm not really a truck guy but it's growing on me One take away from my research was towing, if I really needed to tow something big the Tundra would not be the best choice, but it will tow the bikes just fine

 

Yeah, that's the only thing I'm on the fence about. I like the reliability and price of the Tundra but I like the payload, towing capacity, fuel economy and locking rear differential of the Sierra. The wife and I are looking to get a medium size travel trailer at some point.

 

Motor home or bust, only thing I want to tow is a vehicle in the back of it, and it has to have a garage for the bikes. Once both the kids are out of college, we are tossing around the idea of driving around the country to see the places we haven't seen. So the truck is only for the occasional load of bark etc. and when it snows here it's never really bad but the hill and slush make it a PITA chaining up just to go a few blocks to unchain gets old quick.

 

Our views differ, my view is, if Americans built my truck, in America and the major portion of profit goes to American stock holders, minus Toyota's single digit profit-margin that actually goes back to Toyota of Japan, then it's certainly American built. Almost as American built as Buick's Envision SUV; built in China

 

I don't think you are wrong, just different perspectives, like I told my Father when he insisted he only buys "American" I said did you check the door jam on your Buick

 

Ha! Absolutely Sir, I've done the same thing with friends and family, who only 'know' what they assume!

 

What benefits America more? What scenario fuels local economy, keeps restaurants in business?

A japanese company employing American workers to build a truck, then keeping the profit in japan.

Or an American company using foreign workers in foreign countries to build a truck, then keeping the profits in America.