Let’s talk about leaf spring durability

Also, I know prices vary across the country on install, but what would be a good guess/estimate of going SUA with the 3" leaf's? I know it was said previously that Ford runs 3", but these would still have to be custom made for our trucks right?

 

That is the OEM tank but the LSK design utilizes a pan hard and not the more traditional 4 link design. Problem is the pan hard allows/causes the rear end to move to the side..... a LOT. The pan hard is attached to one side of the frame so it's swinging through an arc. Hope that makes sense.
The leafs would be semi custom and it would be better for you to call Jeff and get a quote from him than for me to take a guess. I believe Alex has a double military wrap on his pack which Jeff said is the strongest pack he can make.

 

It makes sense and I appreciate the info.

 

Well. Looks like there is no good options for a durable spring as of right now. I will get the k37s redone then. I will say the fit and finish of Deavers really sucks.


Also as a side question, couldn’t you do a 3 inch spring that steps to 2.25 sat the ends for the shackles and front mount? Less than ideal as that would be the weak spot, but I assume most of the movement, and as a result most of the dearching occurs toward the middle of the spring. I’m no engineer just thinking out of the box. Only the main spring would have to do that, the rest could be all true 3 inch the whole way.

 

Sounds like a change in material is warranted... perhaps something with a better Young's modulus.

Could be an opportunity here for weaf springs fashioned from a beta stable titanium and aged to perfection.

 

Wondering about this as well.

 

Hey so I guess I don’t understand. If I have the leafs off the truck and we don’t know much they are flattened out, how is the guy going to know how much arch to put in them so proper ride height is achieved? Sorry for being obtuse.

 

Maybe comparing to a standard k37 jig?

 

OK let me clear up some things

For a 3" leaf there will be SUA and SOA versions. I'm going to be working with Jeff, to build spec leafs for our trucks based on avg weights. Cost for leafs will be 1100-1300 approx.

The front mount, I'm not sure on final price but it will be very affordable, and then you will need the rear shackles with bushings and bolts, which I will design a kit around, all part numbers have already been identified.

so I will sell a conversion kit, and you will just call Jeff at Deaver and order your springs passed on application.

Let me know what other questions you will have, but the 3" conversion will be about 2-2400 total but compared to a 3/4 link setup or constantly dealing with 2.25" sagging springs this is a great long term solution as wel as offering us great options for leafs.

Thanks,
Bruce

 

Question Bruce,
If you already have the the I96 pack will shock mounts and axle perches need to be changed?

 

This is the best news I've heard to date on this topic.

 

First, THANK YOU!!!!

Do you think the 3" leaf pack will be customizable based on needs (payload or daily towing)?

I assume it will actually make the leafs weigh less for the same amount lift from a 2.25. Is that correct?

The wider thinner leafs will allow for more articulation whether it is SOA or SUA correct?

I'm sure I'll have more questions.

 

Shock mounts and axles perches will stay the same if you have i96 variant leafs

Yes you can have Jeff at Deaver custom configure your 3" leafs based on weight of payload. They will be wider and articulation will basically be slightly less but unnoticeable really. the 3" leafs will retain weight capacity and shape better than narrow leafs, with less sagging

 

Who has a k37 jig other than Deaver. I would imagine no one does. I’m trying to use someone local. Hence my question.

 

I think you're gonna install and then, if necessary, take it to the shop to have it re-arched to suit your need.

 

Ok that makes sense to me. I was trying to figure out how they would know anything with them off the truck.

 

Yes, much cheaper. Typical SUA build with bed cage, 2.5 bypasses and air bumps, and bed sides is 12-15k Depending on the shop. Links are going to be a lot more.

The only differnece in cost between 2.25" leafs and 3" leafs is the front leaf hanger

Its the best option period. Rides well, easy to tune, excellent street manners, extremely reliable and durable, very versatile (rocks as well as GOFAST), and economical.

The packs themselves are roughly the same cost as the I96 HD packs, but ask Jeff for real prices.

Yes, I have double military wrap reverse eye with 5/8 bolts. It doesn't get any stronger than that

Deaver fit/finish is as good or better than the other guys. Ever check out Atlas?? National?? Alcan?? They aren't doing much better man

No. Leafs are designed to do more than just hold the truck up. They locate the axle laterally as well. They also have to control articulation. If you made the leafs narrow at the front hanger, the first time you twisted the axle on a slope, the 3" portion of the leafs would resist flexing and transfer a massive amount of load the the narrow 2.25" part. The would instantly snap. Guaranteed

they have their techniques. A lot of that stuff is proprietary, they dont want to give out their secrets. Leaf building is a lot more technical than most people think.

 

This is a great example of why a bell crank can work better than a cantilever. The motion ratio can stay the same in a bell crank and as a bonus also has a more centralized mass in motion.

Yeah some folks have used a second “shock” on the rear that is just an air spring. When needed, flip them down and connect them to the axle, fill with N2 and then the effective spring rate is increased.

I love materials science - nerd out on us!

 

My bad i thought you had mentioned having Deaver beef them up directly

 

I like the idea of adding an air shock.....

 

I think I need to see more pictures of this truck, all in the name of science of course!

 

Pretty sure that's a truck done by Kibbetec. You can find 'em on IG

 

Yeah it’s a Kibbetech build. Nate’s.

 

He better put 39s on that.

 

@KevinK
I cut it short (relatively to what I could have posted anyway) to preserve the trajectory of the thread. Didn't want to jack the thread. Maybe we should create a stand-alone nerd thread to protect the innocent from science.

Bro. code: Don't thread-jack a thread that's providing valuable information.

 

This got derailed long ago.

 

After seeing the Kibbetech truck, and with both my shocks mounted behind the axle, the wheels started turning. Could just buy an off the shelf forward mount, and slap these on. http://www.kingshocks.com/products/airshocks/air-bypass-shocks/ Ride height adjustable, might take some tuning to work but solves variable loads and ride heights. But sadly no, air shocks are only good for super low speed crawling. Running on highway etc. overheats them in no time.

 

Hopefully most of this is actually helpful. Hopefully.

Dude! This could actually be @Rubberdown ’s solution.

I had originally looked into ORI gas struts instead of coilovers but avoided them for the same heat soak issue you mention. But now I know of at least a few guys running them at decent speeds for extended periods off road without any heat related problems.

That air shock bypass could be a slick solution.