1. Welcome to Tundras.com!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tundra discussion topics
    • Transfer over your build thread from a different forum to this one
    • Communicate privately with other Tundra owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Use of Deadly Force to Protect Personal Property

Discussion in 'Guns & Hunting' started by TXMiamiFan, Aug 26, 2019.

  1. Aug 26, 2019 at 11:14 AM
    #1
    TXMiamiFan

    TXMiamiFan [OP] SSEM #3 and tractor extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Member:
    #2160
    Messages:
    25,307
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jose
    Houston, TX
    Vehicle:
    2016 White Crew Max TRD
    TRD Pro Grille, ESP Storage, Tailgate Inserts, Line-X Bedliner, Weathertech Floorliners, Wet Okole Seat Covers, 5" Shorty Antenna, Mickey Thompson MM-366 Wheels, ToyTec Boss, 35" BFG KO2 to name a few.
    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/let-them-go-dont-use-deadly-force-to-defend-your-property/

    The US Law Shield people have sponsored a number of free legal seminars in Illinois and I attended one last week. It helped that I knew the attorney delivering the presentation and who went into detail regarding the legal standard for justifiably using deadly force. However, some of his words seemed to go right past at least a few in attendance.

    Steve Davis told the fifty-odd people present that he strongly recommended never using deadly force to defend property. Even if your state has a provision allowing the use of force to stop certain property crimes, it may be a violation of federal civil rights laws and court precedent (Tennessee v. Garner in particular).

    Besides, he pointed out, from a social morality point of view, how will it look to a jury – or a skeptical prosecutor – that you shot someone over a radar detector or an old Craftsman lawn mower?

    Davis urged people not to confront suspects in property crimes but to instead “let him go.” He even had those present repeat after him several times. “Let. Him. Go.”

    Attorney Davis did a good job explaining the laws on the justifiable using deadly force. As I expected him to. After all, years ago I recruited him and his wife to join our GSL Defense Training team not only as outstanding firearms instructors, but also as one of our attorney legal instructors.



    [​IMG]
    Steve Davis lecturing at one of GSL’s free Educator classes. GSL Defense Training photo by John Boch



    Davis has also been published here at TTAG, including Beware of Gun Signs: The Law Has No Sense of Humor.

    Yet despite all this, when it came to the question and answer segment of the seminar, one concerned guy raised his hand with a sincere question.

    “I live in the country and have a long driveway. If I see a suspicious vehicle there as I come home, would it be considered brandishing a gun if I parked in my driveway to block them from leaving while I go investigate with my gun in my hand?”

    “Why would you park to block them from leaving?” Davis asked.

    His reply: “Because the sheriff will never get there in time. And I don’t want them to get away.”

    Davis emphasized using restraint instead of confrontation, urging him instead to call the police from a distance and watch and report to dispatchers any updates until deputies arrive.

    “And if they try to get away?” the man asked, seriously troubled by the idea of allowing burglars to flee, especially if they have some of his stuff when he could slow or stop their escape.

    Let them go! Try to get a license plate, but let them go,” Davis counseled

    Davis then reviewed some of the common post-defensive shooting issues people face, but rarely consider. From Lethal Force Institute (MAG-40, we are both alumni) here are a few we’ve seen first-hand in local cases.

    • Profound Sleep Disturbance – this one is present in 100% of self defense shootings – the hangover from the adrenaline dump during the violent event makes it hard to sleep in the immediate aftermath. After that, nightmares and insomnia set in, further exacerbating some of the other symptoms.
    • The Mark of Cain Syndrome – present in 100% of self defense shootings – the sense and/or reality that every one (including strangers) is seeing you differently after you kill in self defense – guilt is almost never the operative dynamic in post-shooting trauma, unless one did, in fact, fire wrongly. But having killed a man makes people look at you differently: your parents, your children, your spouse, your peers on the job, your neighbors. People no longer look at you as Mr. Friendly, but as he who killed. They treat you accordingly.We all know that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s safe to assume that it is a duck. But we never think that if we were treated like a duck (killer), talked to like a duck (killer), and forced to go through life as if we were a duck (killer), we would start to feel, and maybe start to believe, that we were a duck (killer). The person who has justifiably used deadly force will often be treated by society as if he were a murderer, and this inevitably makes him feel the symptoms of guilt he does not deserve to bear.
    • Depression – from just feeling lousy to becoming suicidal
    • Appetite Disturbance – loss of appetite – or overeating.
    • Social Withdrawal – One is often socially ostracized (see Mark of Cain syndrome).
    • Sexual Dysfunction – 30% chance of impotence (but they’ve got a pill for that, right?), loss of sexual energy and interest – or a period of promiscuity (usually a passing phase).
    • Pharmacological Cascade – use of drugs to function, then drugs to sleep. The use of drugs for the relief of symptoms associated with post-traumatic stress gets out of hand as more prescription drugs are needed to counteract the bad side effects of other drugs.
    • Financial ruin / loss of assets. Lawyers aren’t cheap.
    • Loss of job. If your job considers your absences or simply finds the public fallout from employing you too much to bear, they will let you go.
    • Retaliation threats. The injured/dead party’s family, friends, fellow gang members will have it in for you. You may have to move to deal with the threats.
    • Fallout for family members. Everyone in your immediate family will suffer some degree of Mark of Cain as well. They have to watch their backs too.
    • Divorce.
    • Prison. There’s always a chance your lawyer doesn’t do a good job in the high-stakes game known as a trial.
    • And then there’s Survival Euphoria. The person who successfully lives through a violent attack becomes euphoric. This happens not because they have killed, but because they have lived through a near-death experience. Unfortunately, this euphoria can be misinterpreted by others who don’t understand as being an emotion of joy or happiness about killing someone. But Survival Euphoria is really a profound happiness that they are still alive.
    Is it prudent to risk any or all of that over someone stealing your new big screen TV or a chainsaw? Or maybe even a nice 4-wheeler? Captain Obvious says, “no” rather emphatically.

    The same goes for observing someone breaking into your car parked in your driveway or on the street in front of your house. Don’t leave the house to confront the thief. Don’t even stick your head out of the front door to issue a challenge. Because if things go south and the assailant has a gun, you could end up dead.

    Yes, you might have your Garand trained on the bad boys as you confront them from your front door, telling them to “Get off my lawn!” and dust them after they present a gun. Suddenly you’re back to killing someone because you escalated the situation by confronting some poor, misguided future brain surgeon or rocket scientist when all they wanted was to steal your car stereo.

    While most people would agree with me that we shouldn’t simply allow evil to go unchallenged, how will that argument play out to a jury with a Moms Demand Action member or two present and a grieving family in the back of the courtroom sobbing periodically through a trial? Just play it smart and safe. Observe discretely and call 9-1-1.

    Arson or attempted arson of an occupied dwelling would probably be one of the few “property crimes” where deadly force would be justified. But then, someone attempting to set fire to an occupied dwelling isn’t an attempt to damage or destroy property, but to kill those persons inside using fire and smoke as the weapons.

    The bottom line: play it smart and play it safe. Don’t use deadly force over property crimes. It’s just not worth it.
     
    Krezz, G2G, Law323 and 28 others like this.
  2. Aug 26, 2019 at 11:34 AM
    #2
    War Machine

    War Machine SSEM # 5 3MW

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Member:
    #8939
    Messages:
    16,909
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jason
    Texas
    While I do agree with this for the most part, I’d never think negatively about someone who fired upon an intruder. Like most things, there’s a lot of grey area, and you just can’t know how you’ll react until it happens.
    Someone breaking into my car? No, I would hopefully do my best to just scare them away and call the police. Waking up to find someone in my home? Pretty much anyone’s first instinct is and should be to eliminate the threat immediately.
    Honestly it’s just hard to make these distinctions in the heat of the moment. You can’t know whether that person is just trying to steal your tv, or something much worse. Also hard to know if they are the only person in there.
    The way I see it is the only blame in these situations is on the perpetrator. They’re the only ones who were allowed to make an informed decision about the consequences. Is it worth killing someone over a stereo? Absolutely not, but the perpetrator made the decision that the stereo was worth risking their life over.
    I look at it the way I do many things. (Theft, assault, deceit, infidelity, etc. ) Once you make a decision to violate other people’s lives, whatever happens to you happens to you. You deserve no sympathy.

    A good point about the psychological impact on the person who defends themselves. Regardless of the right or wrong of the outcome, most people are going to have some serious issues going forward.
     
  3. Aug 26, 2019 at 11:36 AM
    #3
    Trooper2

    Trooper2 Premium Lone Star Member / SSEM #13

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Member:
    #12738
    Messages:
    6,736
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    JR
    Houston, TX (Suburban South)
    Vehicle:
    2007 Tundra 5.7 L Double Cab TRD 2WD
    TSS 20's with Cooper ATP ll's, N Fab 3 Step Nerf Bars,, Pioneer AVIC-8100NEX, Masters Tailgate Replacement Latch with Camera, 1" Maxtrac Shackles, LED Interiors/Brake/Reverse/Cargo/Fog Bulbs, Fumoto Drain Valve, Toyota Aluminium Oil Filter Housing, TRD Shift Knob, Courtesy Door Projector LEDs with Toyota Emblem, Console Tray and Lower Divider.
    Interesting read. Sheds a new light on things. It would be hard to not intervene, if my property is in jeopardy.
     
    Rica25, GAknight, Sas and 8 others like this.
  4. Aug 26, 2019 at 11:43 AM
    #4
    jewsNbrews

    jewsNbrews SSEM #8 level 3, RGBA #5 lab tested lab approved

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2018
    Member:
    #14506
    Messages:
    14,581
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tim
    Jewiston Idaho
    Vehicle:
    2019 TRD PRO
    Bolt on
    I get it. And society is in favor of pro life. But...

    If people knew the law was on the defenders side, and they could die legally from my trigger finger, I think more than enough people would second guess stealing if they knew they could die if caught by a defending property owner. I am oldschool and think those in the wrong should be punished and if caught in the act by property owner should be shot. Enough people start dying from stupid stuff maybe the masses will learn.

    However, I know better than to just go shooting. Just how I feel is all. Trigger only gets pulled if my life is in danger, not my stuff. Stuff can be replaced. My livelihood can't.
     
    Law323, JH5370, SullyMoto19 and 20 others like this.
  5. Aug 26, 2019 at 11:44 AM
    #5
    TXMiamiFan

    TXMiamiFan [OP] SSEM #3 and tractor extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Member:
    #2160
    Messages:
    25,307
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jose
    Houston, TX
    Vehicle:
    2016 White Crew Max TRD
    TRD Pro Grille, ESP Storage, Tailgate Inserts, Line-X Bedliner, Weathertech Floorliners, Wet Okole Seat Covers, 5" Shorty Antenna, Mickey Thompson MM-366 Wheels, ToyTec Boss, 35" BFG KO2 to name a few.
    Go right ahead. Not mine and it's not copyrighted LOL
    Got it from that website I read every day, so it's public info.
     
    Law323, ColoradoTJ, Pinay and 2 others like this.
  6. Aug 26, 2019 at 11:52 AM
    #6
    War Machine

    War Machine SSEM # 5 3MW

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Member:
    #8939
    Messages:
    16,909
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jason
    Texas
    Even harder to think the consequences all the way through in a moment like that.
     
  7. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:02 PM
    #7
    Porkchop Express

    Porkchop Express Its all in the reflexes

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2019
    Member:
    #28807
    Messages:
    538
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Cody
    Vehicle:
    2017 Tundra CM
    Lift , tires , stereo , TRD headlights , Rolling tonneau
    So , no punishment for a crime ? Wouldn't that embolden criminals to commit more crimes?
    In my state , dogs are considered "property". If some asshole shot my dog , im not going to "let him go".
    In my opinion , feel good tactics get good people killed. If criminals have no fear of police or armed citizens , then why have laws ?
     
    Trooper2, snivilous, Casper3 and 3 others like this.
  8. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:04 PM
    #8
    Deuxlatch

    Deuxlatch AirBus

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2018
    Member:
    #18243
    Messages:
    436
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Chris (Latch)
    Tomball, Tx./Lafayette, La.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Super White Tundra CM
    TRD Supercharger, TRD Big Brake kit, MotoMetal wheels, Undercover Tonneau with dual swing out saddle bag tool boxes.
    Rule #1 - Keep your booger hook off the bang switch until showtime
    Rule #2 - Don't pull it unless you intend to use it
    Rule #3 - Keep your mouth shut until your lawyer gets there

    Dead men tell no lies
     
  9. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:05 PM
    #9
    YotaMan

    YotaMan Silver Bullet

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2019
    Member:
    #28872
    Messages:
    717
    Gender:
    Male
    Colorado Springs
    Vehicle:
    2021 Platinum
    Great post, glad to see fellow citizens discussing these matters...

    So where is the 'line drawn' if they too are armed as well? My personal opinion is to shoot first
     
    Sas, Boosted4runner and Pinay like this.
  10. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:06 PM
    #10
    Fiesta346

    Fiesta346 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Member:
    #17112
    Messages:
    465
    Gender:
    Male
    PA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Rock Warrior
    My neighbor caught some folks a few years back breaking into cars in his driveway. He shot a few rounds into the ground in his yard. I assume the thugs don't know what way the bullets were headed,never had any un-invited visitors since..
     
    Law323, GAknight, snivilous and 5 others like this.
  11. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:07 PM
    #11
    Deuxlatch

    Deuxlatch AirBus

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2018
    Member:
    #18243
    Messages:
    436
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Chris (Latch)
    Tomball, Tx./Lafayette, La.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Super White Tundra CM
    TRD Supercharger, TRD Big Brake kit, MotoMetal wheels, Undercover Tonneau with dual swing out saddle bag tool boxes.
    When you feel your life or the lives of your family are in jeopardy then empty the mag. Make sure your lawyer is aware "you were afraid for your life"
     
    GAknight, snivilous, Sas and 5 others like this.
  12. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:07 PM
    #12
    War Machine

    War Machine SSEM # 5 3MW

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Member:
    #8939
    Messages:
    16,909
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jason
    Texas
    That’s not the point at all. It’s basically that, given the choice, losing a stereo is preferable than being the man who killed someone for a stereo.
     
  13. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:08 PM
    #13
    Porkchop Express

    Porkchop Express Its all in the reflexes

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2019
    Member:
    #28807
    Messages:
    538
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Cody
    Vehicle:
    2017 Tundra CM
    Lift , tires , stereo , TRD headlights , Rolling tonneau
    I was trained that there must be Motive , opportunity , and the means to cause you harm before you are justified to defend you or someone else with lethal force.
    If those boxes are checked , then clear leather and go to work.
     
  14. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:09 PM
    #14
    Porkchop Express

    Porkchop Express Its all in the reflexes

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2019
    Member:
    #28807
    Messages:
    538
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Cody
    Vehicle:
    2017 Tundra CM
    Lift , tires , stereo , TRD headlights , Rolling tonneau
    I dissagree. When criminals have no fear of being confronted , arrested , or killed by police or armed citizens then we have anarchy where the law breakers determine the rules that will be enforced.
    If a guy gets shot in the stomach after stealing a stereo , im guessing he will start to reflect on some of the poor life choices he made to bring him to the bullet in his guts.
     
    snivilous, Sas, P-Factor and 2 others like this.
  15. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:11 PM
    #15
    Deuxlatch

    Deuxlatch AirBus

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2018
    Member:
    #18243
    Messages:
    436
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Chris (Latch)
    Tomball, Tx./Lafayette, La.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Super White Tundra CM
    TRD Supercharger, TRD Big Brake kit, MotoMetal wheels, Undercover Tonneau with dual swing out saddle bag tool boxes.
    Depending on where you live just discharging a firearm can land you in the brink. If the perp is not armed don't pull it, unless of course "that looked like a gun in his hand and I feared for my life"
     
    Pinay and jewsNbrews like this.
  16. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:14 PM
    #16
    Porkchop Express

    Porkchop Express Its all in the reflexes

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2019
    Member:
    #28807
    Messages:
    538
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Cody
    Vehicle:
    2017 Tundra CM
    Lift , tires , stereo , TRD headlights , Rolling tonneau
    Again , there has to be clear intent , opportunity , and the means to do harm. Its hard to make that call in a fraction of a second.
     
  17. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:16 PM
    #17
    TXMiamiFan

    TXMiamiFan [OP] SSEM #3 and tractor extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Member:
    #2160
    Messages:
    25,307
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jose
    Houston, TX
    Vehicle:
    2016 White Crew Max TRD
    TRD Pro Grille, ESP Storage, Tailgate Inserts, Line-X Bedliner, Weathertech Floorliners, Wet Okole Seat Covers, 5" Shorty Antenna, Mickey Thompson MM-366 Wheels, ToyTec Boss, 35" BFG KO2 to name a few.
    Good luck using that as a defense on a jury trail. Didn't you see the outcome of the parking lot shooting in FL last year?
     
    Sas, ColoradoTJ and Pinay like this.
  18. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:20 PM
    #18
    Porkchop Express

    Porkchop Express Its all in the reflexes

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2019
    Member:
    #28807
    Messages:
    538
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Cody
    Vehicle:
    2017 Tundra CM
    Lift , tires , stereo , TRD headlights , Rolling tonneau
    Im not saying I am drilling some dipshit in the guts for stealing my stereo. I have insurance for such things.
    However , i think that empowering law abiding citizens to fight back against criminals would deter such crimes in the future.
     
    Sas, jewsNbrews, JC303 and 1 other person like this.
  19. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:26 PM
    #19
    War Machine

    War Machine SSEM # 5 3MW

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Member:
    #8939
    Messages:
    16,909
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jason
    Texas

    A few years back, a guy kept repeating this mantra as he killed a man I grew up with. Thankfully he was convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison. This was in Texas, which is known to be pretty lenient with the whole “stand your ground” concept.

    My point being that no one should have a callous disregard for the lives of others, regardless of legal justification. I’m in no way stating that defending yourself or your family with lethal force is wrong. I’d kill someone in a heartbeat to protect my family. I’m saying the “somebody messes with me or my stuff and I’ll kill them” mentality is abhorrent.
     
    GAknight, mtntop, snivilous and 10 others like this.
  20. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:27 PM
    #20
    gm125800

    gm125800 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2017
    Member:
    #9506
    Messages:
    293
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2018 GMC Sierra Denali
    Unfortunately, in certain areas, you could get cited for that as well.. It's almost a lose lose situation because it's only a "civil" crime....
     
    Fiesta346[QUOTED] likes this.
  21. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:28 PM
    #21
    Samoan Thor

    Samoan Thor God is technically an alien

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Member:
    #1713
    Messages:
    1,044
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    Limited 2014 crewmax 4X4
    Kings F&R, no sway bars
    I agree, great wording and lesson here. I was gonna say I would rather beat up said criminal(s) but then it could bite me in the ass later just like someone trying to defend their property with a gun. I’ve seen it many times on the news and some shows where someone shot the bad guy and the good guy got hammered for it. Call the police let them handle it, unless of course your family or your life is in immediate danger then the use of lethal force is absolutely in the right to be carried out, it is all situation dependent.
     
    mtntop, TheBeast and jewsNbrews like this.
  22. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:30 PM
    #22
    Gotyour6

    Gotyour6 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2019
    Member:
    #28470
    Messages:
    1,184
    Gender:
    Male
    Fairport, NY
    Vehicle:
    2019 Tundra Pro
    If they have the balls to break in my house I am guessing they would have the balls to do what they need to and get away which means stopping me from doing anything.

    The only way they will stop me is to do harm and I am guessing I will try and stop them before they try and stop me.

    It is a game with one winner.

    He came for the stuff but found me. Now it is a choice of what they want to do.

    They can run or stay.

    Their call
     
  23. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:30 PM
    #23
    Porkchop Express

    Porkchop Express Its all in the reflexes

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2019
    Member:
    #28807
    Messages:
    538
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Cody
    Vehicle:
    2017 Tundra CM
    Lift , tires , stereo , TRD headlights , Rolling tonneau
    Totally agree. Now , if criminals had some value for life as well, namely their own , perhaps they would not put themselves in situations where there was high likelihood of being shot.
     
    Sas, jewsNbrews, Pinay and 1 other person like this.
  24. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:34 PM
    #24
    TXMiamiFan

    TXMiamiFan [OP] SSEM #3 and tractor extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Member:
    #2160
    Messages:
    25,307
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jose
    Houston, TX
    Vehicle:
    2016 White Crew Max TRD
    TRD Pro Grille, ESP Storage, Tailgate Inserts, Line-X Bedliner, Weathertech Floorliners, Wet Okole Seat Covers, 5" Shorty Antenna, Mickey Thompson MM-366 Wheels, ToyTec Boss, 35" BFG KO2 to name a few.
    Just remember, it is "imminent threat of bodily injury or death". Not the "feeling" of danger. Law is very specific on that. And even then, it's pretty gray when it refers to other people.
     
    GAknight, Sas, ColoradoTJ and 2 others like this.
  25. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:36 PM
    #25
    TXMiamiFan

    TXMiamiFan [OP] SSEM #3 and tractor extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Member:
    #2160
    Messages:
    25,307
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jose
    Houston, TX
    Vehicle:
    2016 White Crew Max TRD
    TRD Pro Grille, ESP Storage, Tailgate Inserts, Line-X Bedliner, Weathertech Floorliners, Wet Okole Seat Covers, 5" Shorty Antenna, Mickey Thompson MM-366 Wheels, ToyTec Boss, 35" BFG KO2 to name a few.
    They don't, which is why they harm those that don't have the means of self defense. So yeah, agree with you there.
     
    Sas, jewsNbrews, Pinay and 1 other person like this.
  26. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:38 PM
    #26
    Ostrich

    Ostrich One bit me once.

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2018
    Member:
    #19807
    Messages:
    684
    Gender:
    Female
    First Name:
    Nikki
    Marion, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2014 MGM Crewmax SR5 4x4
    3/1 level, black leather, raptor style grille
    "future brain surgeon or rocket scientist"... yeah okay. Where's the eye roll emoji?

    I agree with this in certain situations. If I'm home and some vehicle I don't know pulls up my driveway, you bet your ass I'm grabbing a gun and pointing it at their face if they try to break into my house. If they charge or pull a weapon, I'm gonna shoot. If they run, I'd let them go. But if I come home to an unmanned vehicle already in my driveway? Nope, the cops can handle that shit.
     
    PermaFrostTRD, jewsNbrews and Pinay like this.
  27. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:41 PM
    #27
    TXMiamiFan

    TXMiamiFan [OP] SSEM #3 and tractor extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Member:
    #2160
    Messages:
    25,307
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jose
    Houston, TX
    Vehicle:
    2016 White Crew Max TRD
    TRD Pro Grille, ESP Storage, Tailgate Inserts, Line-X Bedliner, Weathertech Floorliners, Wet Okole Seat Covers, 5" Shorty Antenna, Mickey Thompson MM-366 Wheels, ToyTec Boss, 35" BFG KO2 to name a few.
    Tongue and cheek comment. Comes from cases where perps are shot dead by police or citizens and parents claim he/she was a choir boy with a scholarship to Harvard and never hurt anyone.
     
    mtntop, 15whtrd, jewsNbrews and 4 others like this.
  28. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:42 PM
    #28
    HappyGilmore

    HappyGilmore Ex 1st Gen Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Member:
    #23558
    Messages:
    913
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Trent
    Lakewood CA
    Vehicle:
    2018 White Limited TRD 4x4
    I think they were poking fun at all the news articles about killed criminals with family members quoting that they "were just about to enroll in college in the fall" or "just accepted a job offer and was going to start the following week" etc.
     
  29. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:43 PM
    #29
    Deuxlatch

    Deuxlatch AirBus

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2018
    Member:
    #18243
    Messages:
    436
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Chris (Latch)
    Tomball, Tx./Lafayette, La.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Super White Tundra CM
    TRD Supercharger, TRD Big Brake kit, MotoMetal wheels, Undercover Tonneau with dual swing out saddle bag tool boxes.
    Unfortunately, here in Houston it seems the burden of proof is on the shooter, good guy or bad guy, and who has the best lawyer.
     
    jewsNbrews likes this.
  30. Aug 26, 2019 at 12:47 PM
    #30
    War Machine

    War Machine SSEM # 5 3MW

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Member:
    #8939
    Messages:
    16,909
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jason
    Texas
    Absolutely true. I don’t think the article is saying not to use deadly force to defend yourself. I take it as saying to only do it to defend yourself.
    The biggest difference is “where”. I find someone inside my home, it’s likely I’ll take lethal action if possible. Someone in my tool shed or driveway is not realistically an eminent threat, most of the time.

    I’m not arguing with what you are saying. I just see a lot of people taking the whole issue way too lightly.
    The example of the guy I knew who was killed wasn’t the same type of situation. The shooter was the aggressor and created the situation. I only mentioned it because he thought the “I fear for my life” mantra was going to get him off. He recorded the whole confrontation and kept saying it. Even from my point of view after watching the video I could see where he could say that. It still didn’t work for him.
     
    BTBAKER and jewsNbrews like this.

Products Discussed in

To Top