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TwK 88 tuning?

Discussion in 'Audio & Video' started by smslavin, May 12, 2018.

  1. May 12, 2018 at 7:43 AM
    #1
    smslavin

    smslavin [OP] On a plane...

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    Playing around with the TuN software. DRC has a red light and I seem to have lost my sub. Lights on the TwK are alternating between red, green and amber. I have sound coming from the doors just no sub. Any ideas? Lights on the FiX are all green.
     
  2. May 12, 2018 at 8:33 AM
    #2
    831Tun

    831Tun IMA BasTRD

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    It's all Greek to me. Good luck though, if it turns out anything like your phone mount recommendation, I might have to follow in your path.
     
    smslavin [OP] likes this.
  3. May 12, 2018 at 9:53 AM
    #3
    Juanjoolio007

    Juanjoolio007 New Member

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    Which Drc? 100 or 200? I’m assuming 200. Have you pushed the button and see what happens? I believe the pushing of the knob is the function to use your hands free device. So maybe it shuts off the sub output. Could be wrong though as I don’t have the TWK. Good luck.
     
  4. May 12, 2018 at 12:16 PM
    #4
    Heatonrx

    Heatonrx New Member

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    I have the DRC200 and the Fix86. I'm no help but JL answered me quicker that I thought they would when I needed help. Try them out....
    https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
     
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  5. May 12, 2018 at 1:28 PM
    #5
    smslavin

    smslavin [OP] On a plane...

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    i need to play with this some more but i got frustrated and went for a hike. doing that, i unplugged the DRC and shut the truck off. when i restarted it, everything seemed to have gone back to a 'default' configuration. all speakers played. i'm going to eat then head back out with the laptop and see what happens. i think it's a matter of getting the right speaker configuration into the profile. we'll see what happens. at least i know now that i can't goof it up too badly. :cool:
     
  6. May 12, 2018 at 4:13 PM
    #6
    smslavin

    smslavin [OP] On a plane...

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    Kinda have things going in the right direction. The software isn’t super intuitive so I have a little more playing to do. I’ve tweaked the settings (gains and crossover) on the amp, which I didn’t spend enough time with last night, and things are a little happier. Pretty stoked to hear what this sounds like once I get the right EQ setting. So. Much. Power.
     
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  7. May 14, 2018 at 9:19 AM
    #7
    smslavin

    smslavin [OP] On a plane...

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    ok, traded a few emails with JL support then took another look at this. looks like i pulled a total village idiot. first problem, i had set the gains on the amp by using the source volume from the HU, not the DRC. i calibrated the FiX with the source volume set to 45 but then the TwK wasn't getting anywhere near that. so, i reset the gains with HU volume at 45 and used the volume control from the DRC. inputs on the amp were slightly higher, especially the sub.

    now that the gains were correctly set and the TwK was expecting the right input volume, i took another look at the software. i started a new project using 4.1 (Analog Front L/R, Rear L/R and Subwoofer) as the input configuration and 3-Way: L/R Tweeter >< Woofer >< Sub — Rear L/R Spkrs (HP). i did not set any speaker distances yet so the time delay is not being factored in. now that i have a working TuN project, i'll measure then set up a new one later.

    my setup currently looks like this.

    TuN_Setup.png

    since i have 3 outputs from the FiX, there are only 3 inputs into the TwK with 3 outputs going to the amp. i've left all the defaults. if i wanted to, i could move the sub connection to have it's own EQ (5/6) but it sounds amazing tied in the way it is.

    yesterday i was running into issues where the front mids would totally drop out. sound only came from the front tweeters. for the life of me, i wasn't seeing the issue. until this morning.

    TuN_Tune.png

    for now, i've left the EQs flat but i'll change that later when i have more time. yesterday's issue was in the lower left for the crossovers. the front channels had their high-pass values set at 5000Hz. that's a little beyond the mids so of course nothing would be coming out of them. the frequency response for the rockford components i have is 55Hz - 22kHz, so at 80 it's still set a little high. i also need to set the low-pass values correctly. i still need to make some tweaks in this section.

    when i put in the speaker distances, the delay will be automatically configured.

    still a bit more playing around to do but i'm pretty happy with it. sounds amazing, hits hard and there's nothing i want to change.
     
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  8. May 14, 2018 at 9:46 AM
    #8
    smslavin

    smslavin [OP] On a plane...

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    quick update from another few emails with JL. i've chosen the wrong input config based on my setup. JL's recommendation is to use a 2 way setup which will get the signals populated correctly. now that i've got my head wrapped around this, it's beginning to make sense. i'll play around with it some more later today.
     
  9. May 14, 2018 at 11:39 AM
    #9
    smslavin

    smslavin [OP] On a plane...

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    snuck in another tune before the rain started back up. love geeking out on this stuff.

    backing up a step or two. here's my current setup. i have a RF T2652-S component setup in each door and a RF 12" Power sub being powered by a RF P1000x5 amp. That gives me 3 channels: front, rear and sub. HU goes into FiX. 3 outputs from FiX go into 3 inputs on the TwK. 3 outputs from the TwK go into the amp (front, rear, sub). here are some screen grabs for setting up the TuN project.

    initial set up screen. this has changed with the v3 software. it seems all documentation out there is for v2. looks like the only difference is being able to pick a project type: basic, advanced, expert. the software seems to default to advanced since it gives you the speaker distances.

    TuN_New_Project.png

    fill in what you'd like here then click next. you now set the input and output configurations.

    TuN_Config.png

    the input config is 4.1 because i have a 5 channel amp: front left, front right, rear left, rear right, sub. the output configuration is 2 way because there's only a front and rear going into the amp. not separate channels for front tweeter, front mid, etc. the system automatically calculates the high pass numbers for the crossovers but these are editable. if i wanted to, i could enter the speaker distances here but i can also do it later. i'm taking to make these from my head to somewhere in between the tweeter and mid on each door then to the sub.

    once i click ok, i go to the setup screen.

    TuN_Setup.png

    the system automatically configures the inputs into the EQs then through the router. here's where i can configure the DRC knobs. i've left them as volume and sub output but there are a couple of options.

    the tune screen is next.

    TuN_Tune.png

    this is where i can set my EQs, either graphic or parametric. i've left them as graphic for simplicity. the adjustments under parametric are extremely granular. if i switch from graphic to parametric, the settings will stay. if i go the other way, everything gets reset. i can also adjust the crossover settings here as well as the speaker distance and time delay. once i measure the distances, i'll update them here.

    i can create multiple presets along with names and colors. the color i choose for the preset is the one that will display on the DRC's LED. pushing the small knob on the DRC switches from one preset to another.

    lots more playing around to do but it's at a point where it sounds damn good. i'm super stoked.
     
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  10. May 14, 2018 at 12:20 PM
    #10
    smslavin

    smslavin [OP] On a plane...

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    i'm now going down a rabbit hole.

    like i said, i enjoy geeking on this stuff probably goes back to when i was a kid. i don't have a lot of memories of my father but, back in the 80's he had been CEO of Cerwin Vega. i don't know how much time i spent sitting in the test room watching/listening to the engineers do their sound tests but, it was a lot. besides, what 10 year old boy in the 80's wouldn't want to sit next to pat benatar, stevie nicks or lita ford?

    anyway, i'm digging around trying to remember some of the basics of parametric equalizers. the biggest difference between it and a graphic equalizer is the Q value which is the bandwidth of the frequency.

    i grabbed this app for my phone to give me an spl meter, a pink noise generator, a real time analyzer and a few other things.

    is my ocd showing yet?

    reading through this article and making notes. many many notes.
     
  11. May 14, 2018 at 12:27 PM
    #11
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 What's a Dickfir?

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    This is awesome! Thanks for sharing all the screenshots. I too love geeking out on audio equipment. I've thought about adding a Twk to my system, but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

    Keep the updates coming!
     
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  12. May 14, 2018 at 1:00 PM
    #12
    Wreckt01

    Wreckt01 New Member

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    Awesome thread, great info. Thanks
    I may be doing this in a few weeks so it’s great to get a head-start
     
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  13. May 14, 2018 at 5:11 PM
    #13
    smslavin

    smslavin [OP] On a plane...

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    ok. so i'm making dinner and tuning the truck. crazy? sad? some combo of both?

    i just measured speaker distances. used the center of the console lid as my reference point. for the fronts, i went from the reference point to the spot on the door closest to the air vent. for the rears, i went to the glass just above the factory tweeter location. sub was measured to the base of the seat back on the passenger right. i then added a foot to increase the sound stage circle just a bit. the difference is subtle but it's there.

    TuN_Tune2.png

    the software rounded the numbers a bit then automatically calculated the delay on the front and rear channels. from there, i went to the EQs. first i jumped into the audio tools app and fired up the RTA with some pink noise.

    Photo May 14, 5 25 22 PM.jpg

    so, obviously, i was a little bass heavy. in the screen grab above from TuN, you can see the bass frequencies are pretty low and pushed the highs. like the village idiot i sometimes am, i forgot to take a screenshot on my phone of the results. needless to say, it sounds very balanced now. i don't know if it's within the recommend 3db change between frequencies and i did not try the parametric EQ but it is close.

    i think i'm going to duplicate the preset then monkey with the parametric EQ there. first, i should probably make dinner for the kids before they start gnawing off each other's limbs...
     
  14. May 14, 2018 at 7:17 PM
    #14
    smslavin

    smslavin [OP] On a plane...

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    because i love you guys, here’s a screen grab of the pink noise after the EQ adjustment.

    8868D970-5BB2-4A3E-9D4F-B8E65BF16B42.jpg

    quite a bit better but still a little room for improvement. i’m thinking i can fill the gaps better by adjusting the parametric EQ rather than the graphical one. i’ll be able adjust the Q value and get some more coverage/overlap on the frequencies. i’ll play some more tomorrow. right now, i’m just enjoying the sound while waiting at the ballet studio...
     
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  15. May 14, 2018 at 7:54 PM
    #15
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 What's a Dickfir?

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    Shouldn't the RTA have shown a flat signal after the fix86 calibration? Isn't that what it's supposed to do?
     
  16. May 14, 2018 at 8:25 PM
    #16
    smslavin

    smslavin [OP] On a plane...

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    i would assume yes however, i wasn't running this against the FiX. i had already made some EQ tweaks to the TwK. tomorrow i'll run it against a flat EQ on the TwK to see what it looks like.
     
  17. May 14, 2018 at 8:30 PM
    #17
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 What's a Dickfir?

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    I'll be interested to see what the rta looks like. I watched a couple youtube with professional rta's and after the Fix86 calibration was FLAT!
     
  18. May 14, 2018 at 8:32 PM
    #18
    smslavin

    smslavin [OP] On a plane...

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    the app on my phone is good but the limiting factor is the mic. we'll see what happens. i have a nice rode mic that i use for audio recordings. i'll give that a shot too tomorrow. i suppose the other contributing factor is going to be the amp gains.
     
  19. May 15, 2018 at 4:25 PM
    #19
    smslavin

    smslavin [OP] On a plane...

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    after a 3hr conference call, 80% in portuguese, about industrial chicken slaughter, i had to play a bit more.

    so, i created a new preset in TuN to give me a flat EQ to check the RTA curve. first thing was to duplicate the existing preset.

    TuN_DuplicatePreset.jpg

    by duplicating it, all the information (input mixer, router, crossover settings, etc) carries over. then you need to rename it

    TuN_RenamePreset.jpg

    and enable it

    TuN_EnablePreset.jpg

    once it's enabled, you can use it. next, you can change the color.

    TuN_PresetColor.jpg

    this is the color that will show on the LED for the DRC. pushing the volume knob will change the preset and the color lets you know which one you're on. to start playing with the preset, just select the tab. software takes a couple of seconds to switch over and the sound will momentarily cut out.

    TuN_PresetSelected.png

    to flatten the EQ, go to the Tune tab then click Reset.

    Tun_FlatEQ.png

    now that the EQ is flat, i started Audio Tools on my phone and ran some pink noise. i did not turn the gains on the amp down. i really didn't want to pull out the back seat. again. this is what it looks like.

    Photo May 15, 4 13 47 PM.jpg

    the point of today was to even out some of the curve on my Base preset. i switched back to that one and converted the EQs from graphic to parametric. after many small tweaks to both dB and Q values, this is what i finally landed on.

    TuN_ParametricEQ.png

    and the RTA curve looks like this.

    Photo May 15, 4 37 47 PM.jpg

    it sounds appreciably better than last night. very balanced. the time delay helps. i could tweak it a little more but i think i'll leave it alone for now. everything from deadmau5 to the london symphony and everything in between sounds really f'ing good. no country. country will never come through these speakers. super stoked. got so excited i had to dig this out...



    think i'm going to head down to broadway downtown...
     
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  20. May 15, 2018 at 4:47 PM
    #20
    smslavin

    smslavin [OP] On a plane...

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    btw, i love everything about my truck. the past year has been fun with tons of learning. however, this is, without a doubt, my most favorite upgrade. :yay: :bananadance:
     
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  21. May 15, 2018 at 5:34 PM
    #21
    Juanjoolio007

    Juanjoolio007 New Member

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    Damn! All this and stock HU? I kinda wish you would have done this a year ago lol. Then I could just add the Twk and follow your instructions. As long as things don’t change I’m swapping the HU out on Friday and pulling the Fix.
     
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  22. May 18, 2018 at 3:50 PM
    #22
    smslavin

    smslavin [OP] On a plane...

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    so, just a little anecdote from the past few days. seems my TwK got a little confused. when i made the examples above, i left the presets but had them marked as disabled. for whatever reason, the TwK seemed to think they were still active as it would start on the wrong preset whenever i started the truck. the correct one should be blue but it was always starting on purple. i'd plug the laptop in and double check. software told me there was only the one, the blue one. couldn't figure it out and it was starting to make me crazy.

    yesterday, i plugged the laptop back in. when you start TuN, it gives you the option of opening a local project or opening the one on the TwK. i had always been opening the one on the the TwK. this time, i opened the local one and then downloaded it to the TwK. no more purple preset.

    not sure what was going in. maybe it had a stored copy somewhere that wasn't getting overwritten. if you're having issues with non-existent presets, just make sure you open the local project and re-download it to the TwK. looks like the TwK definitely gets overwritten that way.
     

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