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Transmission cooler missing…I know I know

Discussion in '2.5 Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by ColoradoCub, Sep 27, 2021.

  1. Sep 29, 2021 at 4:21 AM
    #121
    batman900

    batman900 Yep

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    I was wondering the same. Those turbos will create a ton of heat, probably the reason they couldn't get by with the cooling puck. Even stock I had to swap out the intercooler on my Type-R for a larger PRL to prevent overheating, people with WRX's often relocate their intercooler to the front of the car due to overheating, I experienced that one also, again totally stock.
     
  2. Sep 29, 2021 at 4:24 AM
    #122
    GODZILLA

    GODZILLA Hail to the King, Baby.

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    I never had any heat issues on my WRX, but I also didn't drive it like a race car. Not sure the turbos would matter for a transcooler now that I think about it. They need intercoolers so they get cool air, and they generate heat, but it's not necessarily going to be imparted to the transmission in an appreciable way.
     
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  3. Sep 29, 2021 at 4:38 AM
    #123
    batman900

    batman900 Yep

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    I drove normal also, Texas 100F days accelerating onto the hwy the engine would get hot and pull power, same if I was sitting in traffic with the AC on and then try to get up to speed. Had a 15 & 16. The type-R did similar but to a MUCH less noticeable degree.

    About the Tundra trans temp with turbos though. It’s my understanding that the 19-21 puck uses the engine cooling / heating to control how it’s affecting the trans temps. So with all the extra engine heat on the new torquey turbo model plus all those gears and extra shifting of course, they couldn’t get by with the puck. Could be wrong but it makes sense in my crazy mind. I feel like if they could have gotten the same temps on the new model using a puck we wouldn’t be seeing an actual cooler.
     
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  4. Sep 29, 2021 at 4:45 AM
    #124
    GODZILLA

    GODZILLA Hail to the King, Baby.

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    Ah, my elevation and cooler temps might be why I never had the issue, but I also drove it in a spirited manner for on ramps and such. It was a 2017 and I never should have let it go.

    Anyway, as for the heating/cooling in the puck, that is done with coolant so it should be cooler than what the turbos do. Either way, needed or not, I think the backlash and howling about it would have had Toyota adding one to the 3rd gen.
     
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  5. Sep 29, 2021 at 5:41 AM
    #125
    2mchfun

    2mchfun Yeah it'll pull it, just don't expect to stop!

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    The trailer was empty, light rain, mostly cloudy, 7 AM on a Sunday, light traffic, rural interstate, 40 min ride. 70 - 85 mph tow haul on, 6th gear until I saw heat build up, then 5th. People here tend to assume the worst. No, it wasn't like that folks, I would not run it hot for a long period of time, hell no! The whole reason I bought the scan guage was to monitor the trans. This was the truck's first tow and it was a test before travel trailer towing. I simply poured on the coal for a few minutes to see what would happen without a cooler in a situation of putting a load on the tranny. My eyes were mostly on the road not the guage so the temp got away from me rather quickly. I would have shut it down at 240 or so. However, in just a few miles it was hitting nearly 260. Nope, shut it down and continue to the house at about 230. Swapped fluid, added cooler. No more 225!! Hope this helps give you some insight. For those who added a cooler, nice job, very wise of you! For those who didn't, wish you and the future owners of your trucks good luck!
     
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  6. Sep 29, 2021 at 5:43 AM
    #126
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Young men never die.

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    I wonder what your temperature would have been in S4 at 65 mph.
     
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  7. Sep 29, 2021 at 5:45 AM
    #127
    Asimov2025

    Asimov2025 Not Sure

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    upload_2021-9-29_7-45-31.jpg
     
  8. Sep 29, 2021 at 5:45 AM
    #128
    2mchfun

    2mchfun Yeah it'll pull it, just don't expect to stop!

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    Wanna fund an experiment?? Paypal me about $400 bucks and I will conduct the test.
     
  9. Sep 29, 2021 at 6:05 AM
    #129
    Oey12

    Oey12 New Member

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    In your case and in similar cases, a cooler is definitely warranted. Towing at 70 to 85 mph is going to generate a ton of heat even with a little 5x8 Home Depot trailer.

    However that far exceeds Toyota’s recommendations for towing. And everyone balks at the idea of following Toyota’s 65 mph speed limit. “That’s crazy what do they know”. In all honesty if your were to have a transmission failure and “IF” you didn’t have a cooler installed I wouldn’t necessarily jump on Toyota for being penny pinchers or dumb engineers. The most important data for me would be the Tundra owners that have driven as conservatively as possible and still had a failure. After all it’s not a medium duty truck or even designed for commercial use in any sense. The Tundras engineers set perimeters in which the vehicle can operate and it’s not their fault or any other manufacturers fault if the owner dabbles consistently outside.

    There are way too many variables to make a decision on any of this IMHO. However I am in the camp of the, if driven reasonably during DDing, towing, and hauling the overwhelming majority of coolerless Tundras will be just as reliable. However the Tundras with no cooler blowing by me at 75 mph in the the left lane while carrying a 7k TT will most likely have problems. As all half tons pickups would..
     
  10. Sep 29, 2021 at 6:08 AM
    #130
    Terndrerrr

    Terndrerrr guzzling dealer repellent

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    This was after saying removing the cooler is BS, they’re adding one themselves, and Toyota has seen defects in trucks from high temps. (Not enough of them to keep the cooler, granted!)

    Also worth noting: that engineer deals with this directly. Not some random Toyota employee out of hundreds of thousands across the world.

    Screenshot for reference:
    859AD64B-B17B-4753-A330-3A7FF92A5E96.jpg
     
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  11. Sep 29, 2021 at 6:24 AM
    #131
    2mchfun

    2mchfun Yeah it'll pull it, just don't expect to stop!

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    I can assure you, most people pulling travel trailer at 75 with a half ton do not get very far. The trailer is usually toothpicks long before the truck hits 50k. So, they really never get to see a tranny failure. Yes, the Tundra isn't designed to be a commercial vehicle, but is there any commercial half ton on the market?? Sort of, but no. So, I bought the truck with a decent powertrain and am in the process of spending tens of thousands to build it to meet my needs. In hindsight, probably should have bought and built a classic, but time would have been an issue with that option. If the Tundra dies before I get off the highway, a full restoration of an old truck will likely be my choice. Never again will I buy a grocery getter for 45k, don't need tech, don't need gloss, don't need mpg. Need workhorse.
     
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  12. Sep 29, 2021 at 6:28 AM
    #132
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Young men never die.

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    If you need a workhorse, shouldn't you be buying a HD truck?
     
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  13. Sep 29, 2021 at 6:36 AM
    #133
    MadMaxCanon

    MadMaxCanon New Member

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    Too many, but not enough....
    This happens alot in manufacturing actually. I work in the manufacturing field making industrial gas and flame detectors for a big global company and cost plays a bigger factor in manufacturing that almost anything else in this day and age. I absolutely believe they did this for cost cutting, once your company decides to go that route, it is very easy to provide "evidence" and justification for doing so and showing that it wont "really" effect things, but it always does. Reliability is a fine line. If taking out one small feature, or using plastic instead of metal in one area for save $4.50 on a part, times 500,000 units produced is alot on an executives colorful report when they report to shareholders. This in turn would likely drop the life expectancy or reliability by a small percentage, but that small percentage is what seperates a reliable manufacturer to an average one. Most consumers wont notice or care, just like most toyota owners, this forum is the exception.

    There are tons of products in my company that have had this happen, an engineer thats been with my company, or even myself at this point, can tell you "updates" and stuff that have taken place that have now ruined a product, or, a solid product that was discontinued because it was too good, it got replaced with some fancy, shiny instrument that some marketting moron who makes posters for a living thinks would look "cool" and sell better. The list can go on for days. There is no way any accelerated life or hazardous environmental testing toyota did in a squeaky clean lab or HALT/HASS chamber can tell you total reliability of something over the span of 20 years. I am a Quality Engineer and pretty decent one at that. Its all corporate bean counting BS.

    This one Toyota engineer we are talking about is likely the one guy who you actually got the whole story from. I believe this phantom engineer because what he is saying is what the real world manufacturing is like in every industry that i have experienced (and sometimes, unfortunately, even participated in) in my career.
     
  14. Sep 29, 2021 at 6:36 AM
    #134
    2mchfun

    2mchfun Yeah it'll pull it, just don't expect to stop!

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    Nope, tech is trash and cost is high.
     
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  15. Sep 29, 2021 at 6:48 AM
    #135
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    yep.

    only if you had a business would it make sense taking on the risk of an HD diesel.

    or you have a super high net income...
     
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  16. Sep 29, 2021 at 7:26 AM
    #136
    Jhon

    Jhon New Member

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    Cruising on the interstate transmission temps towing were the same as empty. The older trucks with the OEM cooler may see higher temps but the Improved Racing MHX-514 cooler appears to be more efficient.
     
  17. Sep 29, 2021 at 7:29 AM
    #137
    2mchfun

    2mchfun Yeah it'll pull it, just don't expect to stop!

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    Agree, pretty similar here after cooler install. Empty or towing about the same. Nice peace of mind!
     
  18. Sep 29, 2021 at 7:42 AM
    #138
    ColoradoCub

    ColoradoCub [OP] New Member

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    It’s amazing how many owners are just sheep and can’t think for themselves. Quoting shit like “Toyota engineers know so much more than the owners on this forum”. The removal of the cooler was purely a profit based decision with no regard for the owners of the final models of the current generation of Tundra…..period! There is no other excuse, all this workhorse and commercial accusations crap is all BS. It’s a V-8 truck with a tow package rated to tow over 9,000 lbs just like all of its competitors and for the previous 11 years came equipped with a critical component that they decided to delete due to money for the last few years. What’s worse is that they were so shady as to put on the Monroney sticker that the truck still comes equipped with a transmission cooler , knowing good and well it’s a lie. There isn’t a automotive transmission engineer in the planet that’s going to tell you that 250 + deg temps in a transmission is good for the life of the transmission and it’s components. Anyone who thinks Toyota always looks out for the customer and they are so damn smart simply needs to look at the cam tower threads, we’re what 14 years into the garbage sealant and they still leak and nothing has been done to correct that assembly error either. Toyota is in to making money and that’s it. If you tow or live in hot places, especially with higher elevation travel IMO you need to install a cooler, period. Or you can kick yourself in the ass when the transmission goes out at 65,000 or 70,000 miles to the tune of $5k. You have to realize that Toyota knows this robust tranny will still not likely fail under warranty which is a win win for them, but for the guy who expected 200,000 miles on his truck he gets to deal with it! And please stop regurgitating that we should tow in S4 at 3000 rpms everywhere you go, that makes no sense and is merely a band aid to the lack of transmission cooler that puts more stress on the engine and annihilates your fuel economy.
     
  19. Sep 29, 2021 at 7:47 AM
    #139
    hagrid

    hagrid The most diverse of Diversity Hires!

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  20. Sep 29, 2021 at 7:47 AM
    #140
    Drainbung

    Drainbung Some days you are the show...

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  21. Sep 29, 2021 at 7:52 AM
    #141
    hagrid

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    Sounds like you got bent over without the aid of personal lubricant. You should trade that pitiful jap scrap truck and get a real half-ton from one of the American manufacturers.
     
  22. Sep 29, 2021 at 7:55 AM
    #142
    ColoradoCub

    ColoradoCub [OP] New Member

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    Been there done that, no thanks. I ordered everything to put a cooler on my truck that has less than 500 miles on it, problem fixed. But they did f@#$ me good by pulling a sneaky on me with this f#@$ the 2019-2021 owners campaign on the cooler delete! Didn’t see that one coming.
     
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  23. Sep 29, 2021 at 7:55 AM
    #143
    2mchfun

    2mchfun Yeah it'll pull it, just don't expect to stop!

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    Or take the cheaper wiser route and correct the issue. Hmmm.
     
  24. Sep 29, 2021 at 7:56 AM
    #144
    Bikeric

    Bikeric New Member

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    I have a 2011 that came equipped with external trans cooler, dash temp gauge, and hopefully the thermostat controlled system. I was running high rpm's at slow speed through deep sand the other day. Very fun stuff, but I noticed my gauge for the trans climbing.
    My question is what larger size cooler can I install that would help out the truck during mostly off-road joy rides (low speed, high rpm)??
    Please and Thank You for all incoming advice.
     
  25. Sep 29, 2021 at 7:57 AM
    #145
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Young men never die.

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    I didn't say diesel.
     
  26. Sep 29, 2021 at 7:58 AM
    #146
    2mchfun

    2mchfun Yeah it'll pull it, just don't expect to stop!

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    I would try to look into an electric fan to get airflow at slow speed.
     
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  27. Sep 29, 2021 at 7:59 AM
    #147
    pman9003

    pman9003 New Member

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    I second this take. I work in R&D (New Product Development) in medical devices and have had similar experiences. Toyota had two options, with different costs and risks for each option. They choose the better of the two options for "the business".

    One thing people overlook here when discussing is the "cost" of the cooler setup. For the 2019+ its not just cost of the parts, there is a massive amount of time and effort required to design, test, validate, verify, and source a new cooler setup. This requires more far resources than you would think. The R&D cost of the new setup alone would probably be enough to kill the idea, especially since they would only have 3 years to recover the cost. Compared to using all data from 12 years of production and real world use, a little bit of additional testing sans cooler, and supposedly some shift map changes.

    I'm not defending Toyota in anyway here, I don't like what they did. Just saying it happens and its more nuanced than many make it out to be. Also why I designed, built, and installed my own Setrab based trans cooler setup on my 2020.
     
  28. Sep 29, 2021 at 8:00 AM
    #148
    2mchfun

    2mchfun Yeah it'll pull it, just don't expect to stop!

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    Still trash and expensive. I can build TWO nice classic work trucks for that.
     
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  29. Sep 29, 2021 at 8:02 AM
    #149
    Bikeric

    Bikeric New Member

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    I hadn't considered that. Thank you. I was not looking forward to opening the "closed" system of the transmission fluid. I think I'll have the dealer flush/refill my tranny at the next scheduled oil change, just to be safe.
     
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  30. Sep 29, 2021 at 8:05 AM
    #150
    ColoradoCub

    ColoradoCub [OP] New Member

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    You know what I searched for and can’t find is whether or not anyone has switched to a better quality transmission oil like Amsoil to see if temps were reduced at all. That would have been the most logical thing for Toyota to do for the 19-21 owners, rather than sticking with a mediocre non synthetic oil.
     
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