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Transmission cooler missing…I know I know

Discussion in '2.5 Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by ColoradoCub, Sep 27, 2021.

  1. Oct 16, 2021 at 12:29 PM
    #571
    GTundraX

    GTundraX Rub some dirt on it.

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    Trouble maker!

    Serious inquiry, though. I'm a little confused as to why this has turned into a controversial/arguable topic? Is it because people are complaining about it and it's not affecting them? Because my transmission running at 260+ degrees (at least once a month while overlanding) is concerning to me unless I'm missing something...but I'm no mechanic...

    I guess I'm the one who's stirring the pot now...

    **Edit...also, I saw another post saying the warning light comes on at 300 degrees...but mine turned on at 260 unless my ScanGauge was lagging.
     
  2. Oct 16, 2021 at 12:44 PM
    #572
    ColoradoCub

    ColoradoCub [OP] New Member

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    It shouldn’t be controversial but you have a lot of members that have some unfounded blind faith defense in Toyota that they wouldn’t have removed the cooler if it wasn’t good for the transmission. Then you have those that have actually purchased a tool that can be connected to the OBD port to see how hot the transmissions get as well as those that have actually gotten a high trans temp alarm in the info cluster and seek a solution to this problem. It gets even more complex when the engineer minded folks delve into the discussion and just argue on the front of unsupported data and failures when it actually goes both ways since Toyota has offered zero information about how hot is okay for both the fluid and internal transmission components, were just supposed to take one mans word for it.
     
  3. Oct 16, 2021 at 2:55 PM
    #573
    timsp8

    timsp8 Former Tundra owner for 13 years

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    I always wondered this. People change suspension and tires all the time. No one argues that Toyota engineers knew what they were doing and there was no reason to change the suspension. But if someone spends their own money on a transmission cooler, a lot of people start telling them they are wrong and now their warranty is void.
     
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  4. Oct 16, 2021 at 3:21 PM
    #574
    Jtundra81

    Jtundra81 Just a member

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    Put it this way , i have a 2019 , I got it brand new with 7 miles on it , I towed with it a travel trailer for the third year now anywhere from flat to hills of NH , VT and
    ME , my travel trailer is around 4200lb loaded , I monitored my transmission temp since day one I always averaged 215 on pan while towing that with being on S4 and my speed always between 60 and 65 .
    My TC always same and spikes to 240 occasionally on acceleration from a stop and go back to pan temp

    I found that my temps not towing also around the same give or take .

    Do I need a cooler ? Don’t think so for my application and I am not worried about the temps I am seeing , I am ok with it .

    now not sure what mods or driving conditions you were at to see 260 at pan but if you think that this is something that you do more often , then I would say go ahead and add the cooler .

    I have attached samples from my towing temps from last summer
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. Oct 16, 2021 at 5:09 PM
    #575
    sportbikenut

    sportbikenut New Member

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    Interesting, thanks for the info.. Surprised your numbers were on average, that low. Especially if you were going thru the mountains up there. But I'm curious what exact trailer you have because 4,200 gross weight is pretty small and may also have a lower height to it. Just curious on the aerodynamics. That might be the main reason your numbers are lower then say someone towing a taller 6,500 lb trailer which seems to be more the norm. And some guys are really pushing the limit with very heavy 5th wheels.
    How many miles on on your truck now and have you changed out the tranny fluid yet? Curious how dark it was. Thx.
     
  6. Oct 16, 2021 at 5:16 PM
    #576
    Jtundra81

    Jtundra81 Just a member

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    Here is the trailer , I just sold it and upgrading to imagine xls 21bhe which will be around 5800 loaded with our gears .
    I am going next week to Vermont to get it from Massachusetts, I will report back with temps although will be dry around 4800lb

    truck has 13000 , not may daily , no transmission maintenance yet , planning to do it at 30 k since I don’t drive much with it

    5EDB6891-526A-44A4-9940-AEF869C076F8.jpg
     
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  7. Oct 16, 2021 at 5:39 PM
    #577
    sportbikenut

    sportbikenut New Member

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    Nice. That new one may be a significant change as taller and heavier. Good you are monitoring temps. Good luck with it!
     
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  8. Oct 16, 2021 at 5:53 PM
    #578
    Jtundra81

    Jtundra81 Just a member

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    Thank you , I will report back if my temps are higher , if this is the case , cooler is always an option but if it stays around what I am seeing currently , I am ok with it
     
  9. Oct 17, 2021 at 2:35 AM
    #579
    Mad Max

    Mad Max New Member

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    You goofy. The real problem is Toyota is making their cars less durable as noted by th lack of transmission cooler. Wonder what they deleted on the 2022? Oh wait figured it out, two cylinders.........
     
    Retired...finally likes this.
  10. Oct 18, 2021 at 4:54 AM
    #580
    Toondra

    Toondra New Member

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    This is purely out of curiosity but has anyone tried doing a different transmission pan and had good results for taming trans fluid temps?

    Not saying this would be a solution but curious to know if anyone has tried changing the transmission pan instead of doing the cooler.

    Something like this:

    https://yourcovers.com/pml-toyota-ab60e-ab60f-deep-transmission-pan.html
     
  11. Oct 18, 2021 at 7:42 AM
    #581
    68rs75z28

    68rs75z28 New Member

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    I unpinned mine over the weekend with 84*f temperatures outside, I never crossed the 185*f mark with the truck. This was mostly city driving with a bed load of mulch and plants.

    Worth it? Probably--I want to keep the truck going for a long time. Ask any transmission shop and they will tell you it needs it.
     
  12. Oct 18, 2021 at 7:43 AM
    #582
    avssuc

    avssuc Efilnikufesin

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    This was me with just over 200 miles on my truck, driving at sea level, with just me in the truck, driving like a geriatric on the way to the dealer to have a cooler installed.

    I do this crazy thing with my truck, it's called towing, maybe you're familiar? Since the installation, I towed 6k up a decent grade, it hasn't gone higher than 195 (the optimal temperature on the chart below)... just like every other truck I've driven. I'm in my 40's, just retired from the military, have driven all sorts of rigs in the heat, and never did I get over 200 so easily. Pulling a 5 ton dozer in the MPF offload back in Kuwait in 2003 might be the only other time.

    Screenshot_20211018-092155_Gallery.jpg



    This changes almost nothing but the heat that can be created. The only way to use that in a logical sense is to see where the thermostat for the 2022 cuts off. I did a brief search of the forum and didn't find much as to when it turns on in 19-21, but I saw 280 degrees mentioned. If the new transmission is anything less, it will be safe to assume this decision (in 19-21) had more to do with $$$ than it did engineering.
    attachments.jpg

    If you folks feel safe with that, I wish you all the best. I'm the kinda guy that hates skirting regs and taking shortcuts, and I have brain damage from Iraq. I need a cooler to protect my investment and feel safe.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
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  13. Oct 18, 2021 at 7:48 AM
    #583
    sportbikenut

    sportbikenut New Member

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    That might help a little, but for the same price why not do it right and install the cooler?
     
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  14. Oct 18, 2021 at 7:55 AM
    #584
    Clemsonman14

    Clemsonman14 New Member

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    How much did you dealer charge you for the installlation? Did you provide the cooler kit?
     
  15. Oct 18, 2021 at 7:59 AM
    #585
    avssuc

    avssuc Efilnikufesin

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    I paid $900, got the kit from @chasenicholas93.

    Super happy with the mod. Unlike some of the other vendors here, he was forthright about everything, and delivered on time.
     
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  16. Oct 18, 2021 at 8:08 AM
    #586
    Oey12

    Oey12 New Member

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    I have been reading up on this subject quite a bit. There are numerous articles and discussions on other vehicle forums that mirror everything said here including the chart used above. But one important take away that I have noticed is that transmissions in general are running a lot hotter than they use to especially in pickups of all classes. GMs SEEM to run the coolest so unfortunately I have to give them credit even though it irks me…

    Maybe them took it out simply based on an economical standpoint but why are transmission getting hotter even in commercial applications? Typically the more research done the more answers you obtain but that’s simply not the case here…

    I know people have a hard time accepting this because it been commonplace for so long but how old are these charts and information? I am not saying they are necessarily antiqued but alot can change in 10 or 20 years.
     
  17. Oct 18, 2021 at 8:17 AM
    #587
    68rs75z28

    68rs75z28 New Member

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    Can you show us them running hotter in commercial applications?
    The commercial trucks I deal with all have massive coolers.
     
  18. Oct 18, 2021 at 8:18 AM
    #588
    AZBoatHauler

    AZBoatHauler SSEM#140/ASCM#3/2ndGenNaysayer/BAF140

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    Nothing almost about it IMO. Pretty clear sentence with a period at the end.
     
  19. Oct 18, 2021 at 8:22 AM
    #589
    Clemsonman14

    Clemsonman14 New Member

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    Awesome. How much did the dealer charge you to put the cooler on?
     
  20. Oct 18, 2021 at 8:23 AM
    #590
    Oey12

    Oey12 New Member

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    Nope…can’t at the moment I read many different sources and would have to try to find the the sources again. And to clarify I was speaking about commercial grade pickups which do have coolers like you pointed out. But a few were running 210 plus unloaded…
     
  21. Oct 18, 2021 at 8:28 AM
    #591
    avssuc

    avssuc Efilnikufesin

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    1) Haha, I just traded a 2020 AT4 in for my Tundra, and that's spot on. The 10 speeds sucked, the AFM made it worse, and most everything on the truck was built like crap... but it looked cool and the trans temps were perfect!

    20210819_125424.jpg

    2) Planned obsolescence is hard to deny.

    3) Great question! I just wonder why Toyota wouldn't make the breakthrough they had with the 19-21 Tundras a big deal, especially given their reputation for 'overbuilding' their products.
     
  22. Oct 18, 2021 at 8:32 AM
    #592
    avssuc

    avssuc Efilnikufesin

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    Sorry, I paid $900 for the installation, not sure what the kit was, but prices are on his site.
     
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  23. Oct 18, 2021 at 8:38 AM
    #593
    ColoradoCub

    ColoradoCub [OP] New Member

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    Too funny, I ditched a 2021 Silverado for my Tundra. The SOB only started on the first try when it wanted to. 3.0 Duramax
     
  24. Oct 18, 2021 at 8:39 AM
    #594
    Acedude

    Acedude New Member

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    Probably went this way:

    Executive VP's to Engineering: "We need to reduce production costs. Find something to achieve that."

    Engineering: "OK, on it. Will scrutinize all systems and components."

    Engineers do what the Executives tell them to do or they will find someone more cooperative. We have to keep in mind Toyota was building new plants, retooling others for the new TNGA-F lineup, so saving 200 million in production cost for the final years of the current gen Tundra and Tacoma makes Corporate happy.
     
  25. Oct 18, 2021 at 8:40 AM
    #595
    Clemsonman14

    Clemsonman14 New Member

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    Thanks. Starting to lean this way as well just for the peace of mind. Definitely would want to have the dealer put it on if possible
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
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  26. Oct 18, 2021 at 9:01 AM
    #596
    hagrid

    hagrid The most diverse of Diversity Hires!

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  27. Oct 18, 2021 at 9:16 AM
    #597
    SSPey

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    Doubtful it was a targeted assassination. The feds mandated a switch to new freon in 2019 that required more surface area to function, which killed the integrated ATF cooler. The bean counters then saved money by not re-engineering a new stand-alone ATF cooler. Loss of the ATF cooler was not a targeted assassination, it was instead just collateral damage.
     
  28. Oct 18, 2021 at 9:39 AM
    #598
    Toondra

    Toondra New Member

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    Well $300 dollars vs $900 or$1000 for the cooler kit is quite a difference.

    Im not saying the cooler isnt worth it, just was curious if anyone had tried a different route is all.
     
  29. Oct 18, 2021 at 9:57 AM
    #599
    Asimov2025

    Asimov2025 Not Sure

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  30. Oct 18, 2021 at 10:17 AM
    #600
    Acedude

    Acedude New Member

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    Well, two things about that perspective.

    One, Chief Engineer Mike Sweers got grilled a few times about the deletion, never mentioned freon or AC condensor. He said something about weight savings and aerodynamics. Frankly, he seemed a bit sheepish during his explanation. Took the hit for the Toyota team.

    Two, those that have installed aftermarket coolers with OEM plumbing haven't mentioned any problems with their AC functionality.

    Appears to me Sweers was tasked by Corporate to reduce production costs, jiggered what he could to appease Corporate. How they decided on deleting the trans cooler on the Tundra and Tacoma IDK. Was the low-hanging fruit for end of cycle production I guess. Remapped the ECU to keep the trans locked more often I guess, and now they're remapping it again.
     
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