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Transmission Cooler missing…I Know I know

Discussion in '2.5 Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by ColoradoCub, Sep 27, 2021.

  1. Oct 12, 2021 at 12:13 PM
    #511
    realprotundra

    realprotundra Always Skeptical

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    Again, this all comes down to data. We simply don't know that the transmission temperatures exceed the reliable operating temp of the WS fluid or the transmission and its internal components. Only one entity has that information......Toyota.....good luck getting it out of them.
     
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  2. Oct 12, 2021 at 12:33 PM
    #512
    ultra1988

    ultra1988 New Member

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    like I said, towing 3500 pounds I was over 260f, and I didn’t even get an alarm. It’s a known issue, Toyota won’t tell us the maximum temp allowable for the WS fluid AND they won’t tell us how often to change the WS depending on temperature. Like maybe if we tow and see over 260f we should change it ASAP?

    I bought a 2019 tundra, I’m not like some of the folks arguing on here who don’t even own one. I likely would have held off on buying one if I realized they took it out. I consider my truck incapable of slow uphill off roading and towing a 6000 pound travel trailer through the desert. My Silverado that I lemon lawed could do either of those things without skipping a beat.
     
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  3. Oct 12, 2021 at 12:44 PM
    #513
    JDR76

    JDR76 New Member

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    My opinion on the matter is an ever evolving one. I just towed my trailer this weekend and was hitting anywhere from 214 to 222. Meanwhile I read a post on here today about someone with a 2018 (with factory cooler) hitting 240 while towing.

    I don't see why some seem to get so offended about those of us stating that we'd like more data, but oh well. Further up the thread I did share my thought process on the matter as an experienced engineer. Sorry if that ruffled some feathers. I really don't get it. I'm not a fanboy, I just want to make an educated and not emotional decision.

    Do I think it was a poor decision for Toyota to remove the factory cooler? If it was indeed an effective cooler, then yes, yes I do think it was unwise.

    However, I don't understand how spending your own money to add an aftermarket cooler is holding Toyota accountable. It completely lets them off the hook and you absorb all the cost. If people are so sure it'll fail, then let it fail and let Toyota pay to replace it.

    I am still deciding what to do with mine. My temps have been reasonable though I do indeed wish they were cooler, and I am still considering adding the cooler to mine. However, I am not really sure I want to let Toyota off the hook like that if their decision to remove the cooler truly will lead to a failure. I do have a 10 year warranty on mine. If failure is such a sure thing, then certainly it will fail within those 10 years, and I can have Toyota foot the bill. If it fails after 10 years, then really, I'm not that concerned. If I have to sink a few grand into a 10 + year old truck, I can live with that. I spent far more than that keeping my Silverado running.

    I think I'm pretty much done towing for the season and won't likely do it again until the spring, so I will plan to make my decision by that time.
     
  4. Oct 12, 2021 at 12:52 PM
    #514
    crewmaxlmt

    crewmaxlmt How dare you!

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    I would bet the decision to remove the transmission cooler came from the financial department and not engineering.
     
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  5. Oct 12, 2021 at 12:56 PM
    #515
    ultra1988

    ultra1988 New Member

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    I’m not going to install a cooler, I’m either going to get an extended power train warranty or sell the truck when the warranty runs out. I’m confident enough in my knowledge of lubricants that the lack of cooler combined with my normal summer tow being in 100-120f outside temps that my transmission will 100% not last as long as it should.

    im not a Toyota engineer and I don’t work for an oil manufacturer, so I don’t suggest anybody listen to me.

    while the maximum recommended operating temperatures, or a temperature/mileage change interval are not available for WS…there are plenty available for other name brand synthetic ATF’s, as well as high performance extreme duty ATF’s. None of them that I’ve found recommend operating between 240-290.
     
  6. Oct 12, 2021 at 12:56 PM
    #516
    ColoradoCub

    ColoradoCub [OP] New Member

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    Ok, can you refer me to all the threads of Tundras pre 2019 overheating with light to moderate loads towing and guys cruising around the mountains at lower speeds? I don’t recall seeing any of that. In fact if you search “Tundras.com transmission overheating” the only threads that come up are related to 2019+ models. What’s funny is that thread after thread about this topic and everyone who defended Toyota’s genius engineer that eliminated the cooler, NOW…. in Oct of 2021 Toyota releases a TSB for these transmissions overheating. hmmmmm
     
    pickeledpigsfeet likes this.
  7. Oct 12, 2021 at 12:58 PM
    #517
    ColoradoCub

    ColoradoCub [OP] New Member

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    Dont recall who all the engineer defenders were, you can look back at the first 10 pages and see.
     
  8. Oct 12, 2021 at 12:58 PM
    #518
    GTundraX

    GTundraX Rub some dirt on it.

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    If possible, will you send me a link to the TSB so I can review? I looked but must have missed it...
     
  9. Oct 12, 2021 at 12:59 PM
    #519
    ColoradoCub

    ColoradoCub [OP] New Member

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    100%!
     
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  10. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:00 PM
    #520
    2WD

    2WD New Member

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    I haven't towed heavy yet, but light towing and off-roading, stop and go, 75 plus on the highway, etc - the hottest I've seen is 215 (no cooler). If it is maintaining 240+ all day long when I tow heavy I'll probably add a cooler.

    Before this cooler removal I don't think as many folks were watching trans temps of pre 2018's (no need, it has an AUX ATF cooler). It's clear the afternmarket coolers bring it down to 190-200 but what about the factor 2018 cooler? How much cooler was it?

    I still can't get past the fact that on the Ford Forums they had the same concerns and determined that the ECU doesn't react to trans temps on Superduty's until 247! Ford didn't want to stress out the fan too much I guess and are happy with heavy trailers and ten speeds 220-245 range all day. These are commercial grade trucks that sometimes never disconnect from their trailers.

    Has the industry as a whole realized these fluids/trans can handle warmer temps? Ford, GM, and Toyota have all come to the same conclusion. No Aux coolers on their half tons, and higher sustained temps on their HD's.
     
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  11. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:01 PM
    #521
    realprotundra

    realprotundra Always Skeptical

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    TSB =/= Wrongdoing in the elimination of the cooler. Maybe it is going to set different parameters for TC lockup which will reduce temps as well. I don't know, I know you don't know because you have yet to provide anything but conjecture, probably no one in here knows.
     
  12. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:01 PM
    #522
    ColoradoCub

    ColoradoCub [OP] New Member

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    BD9ED72F-2B70-4EF9-8F36-9817CDE64A1E.jpg
     
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  13. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:05 PM
    #523
    ColoradoCub

    ColoradoCub [OP] New Member

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    TSB means that they received enough transmission related warranty claims/issues or repairs through their service departments that they had to address the issue. I worked for Toyota in service, they don’t issue TSB’s for unconfirmed problems.
     
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  14. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:06 PM
    #524
    JDR76

    JDR76 New Member

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    Notice that the TSB is addressing an issue with the warning message? If, instead of "Some 2019 - 2021 model year Tundra vehicles may exhibit a 'High Transmission Fluid Temp' warning message on the the instrument cluster..." it said "Some 2019 - 2021 model year Tundra vehicles may exhibit overheating transmissions or elevated transmission fluid temperatures" then the discussion would be different. Well, maybe no in this thread... :D
     
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  15. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:06 PM
    #525
    Terndrerrr

    Terndrerrr it's good to get lost once in a while

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    My window sticker said it has a cooler. I didn’t know that this meant there’s no air cooler, but it has a puck whose function changes depending on the trans fluid’s temp relative to engine coolant. I love Toyota, but that seems really lame to me. I do think this was a big miss on their part as MANY of us bought the Tundra due to its reputation for long-term reliability and Toyota’s reputation as a conservative automaker who chooses to err on the side of caution when it comes to wear and tear from normal use. I bought it because there are so many high mileage Tundras with no issues.
    I will say that when I’m in 4Hi off-road, especially climbing any kind of grade or reversing, it runs hotter than when in 4Lo. If you’re in 4Hi with no ext cooler, it seems inevitable that you’ll run it too hot with no way of cooling it down.
     
  16. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:09 PM
    #526
    JDR76

    JDR76 New Member

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    That's too bad. I though they had addressed that back in 2019. My 2021 stated it had the tow package, but did not state that it had a cooler.
     
  17. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:10 PM
    #527
    ColoradoCub

    ColoradoCub [OP] New Member

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    Verbage is everything when it comes to legal protection! But the warning message doesn’t come on because the fluid is too cold.
     
  18. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:14 PM
    #528
    GTundraX

    GTundraX Rub some dirt on it.

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    We had it in 4hi on the maintained road, and put it in 4lo before our climb on the trail but it still got too hot and showed the warning. The combination of 4lo/manual seemed to be the trick for the steep road.
     
  19. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:18 PM
    #529
    GTundraX

    GTundraX Rub some dirt on it.

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    We drive on steep, unmaintained roads in the backcountry, often with high inclines. This is not what I assume to be "typical use" of the truck. We have modified it quite a bit, with larger tires, bed rack, suspension, RTT, camping gear loaded in the bed, etc.

    When we bought the 2019, it was just to be used as one of our daily drivers and to haul wood, etc. from HD. We did take the recommendation to purchase the Tundra from my dad who has the 2018 and hauls a 8,500 lb trailer (6,500 lb "dry") on FS roads, and he has not had issues with overheating. Knowing about the lack of cooler at the time of our purchase likely wouldn't have affected our decision to buy it, and we would never have been the wiser except our driving habits changed. We are really happy with the truck otherwise.

    The removal of the cooler for 2019+ is unfortunate and I am of course disappointed with it as it has affected me, but had it been installed to begin with, the price would have been passed onto us anyway at purchase. At this point, I see the Genuine Cooling Systems kit as another potential modification and, aside from having to deal with it, I am fine with it/resigned to it - although it would be nice if Toyota would just fix it LOL!

    Someone already probably said something - but has anyone with similar driving habits seen good results with the Setrab? https://genuinecoolingsystems.com/product/setrab-series-9-complete-kit/
     
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  20. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:18 PM
    #530
    ColoradoCub

    ColoradoCub [OP] New Member

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    Its not anything you did man, it’s just the new deleted design failure. Your options are to drive around in manual gear selections or install a cooler, the transmissions in the 19-21’s can’t be driven like the previous models without issues.
     
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  21. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:20 PM
    #531
    JDR76

    JDR76 New Member

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    Has the transmission been okay since the event? Are you going to have it checked out or just move forward and monitor it?

    I have heard/read very good things about the Setrab unit and likely the one I'll go for if I decide to add one.
     
  22. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:24 PM
    #532
    GTundraX

    GTundraX Rub some dirt on it.

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    After we switched to 4lo/manual uphill, it worked fine up to and through Coyote Flat, but we haven't tested it uphill while in 4lo/automatic since then. The whole thing happened this past weekend. It was of course fine on the descent back into Bishop and performed fine through normal, flat-ish maintained dirt roads in Alabama Hills.

    Yeah I'll be looking into it more. There's always something :spending:
     
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  23. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:31 PM
    #533
    Clemsonman14

    Clemsonman14 New Member

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    If these trans ever had enough failures to warrant Toyota doing something I think the most they would do would be warrant the transmission for longer than usual. No way will they ever foot the bill to put a cooler on the 19-21s.

    On another note it seems the aftermarket coolers offered are more efficient than the ones that came installed on the tundras 2018 and prior. Sucks to have to put the money down for something like that but it may get you a better overall product in the end
     
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  24. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:33 PM
    #534
    GTundraX

    GTundraX Rub some dirt on it.

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    HAHA yeah and they'd likely say ours isn't covered because all of the mods. I'll just add install it myself and stress about something else instead :rofl:FML
     
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  25. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:37 PM
    #535
    Clemsonman14

    Clemsonman14 New Member

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    That’s the only reason I haven’t done it is for warranty reasons. More than likely they wouldn’t care about the cooler if you ever needed warranty work but if they did decide that was the issue you are basically on the hook for the bill. Even if the cooler didn’t cause the issue it seems like it would be very easy for them to just blame it on the cooler as an easy out to not have to fix the trans under warranty
     
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  26. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:45 PM
    #536
    realprotundra

    realprotundra Always Skeptical

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    Sure........convenient place to mention that for the first time.....
     
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  27. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:48 PM
    #537
    ultra1988

    ultra1988 New Member

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    What are the actual repair procedures in the TSB? Is it confirmed that it’s just changing the TC lockup function or alarm set point?
     
  28. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:49 PM
    #538
    crewmaxlmt

    crewmaxlmt How dare you!

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    It changes the message from "Hot transmission" to "oven is pre-heated".
     
  29. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:50 PM
    #539
    realprotundra

    realprotundra Always Skeptical

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    I have not seen it mentioned yet.
     
  30. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:52 PM
    #540
    JDR76

    JDR76 New Member

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    I think all the TSB stated was to do a new software load on the ECM. It isn't specific enough to address what they're actually changing in the load.
     
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