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Towing a 5th wheel camper?

Discussion in 'Towing & Hauling' started by Mudstoy884, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. Jul 30, 2018 at 11:32 AM
    #1
    Mudstoy884

    Mudstoy884 [OP] New Member

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    New be here. Not to tundras jut to wanting to tow a 5th wheel camper. Half i read says yes half says no. Camper is 6500# GVWR. Help
     
  2. Jul 30, 2018 at 11:57 AM
    #2
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ #WAISTBAND

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    You will be over on pin weight (on any half ton). I see people do it, don’t recommend it.

    6500 lbs empty x .25 (25% trailer weight is pin)= 1625 lbs.

    Now add up everyone’s weight inside truck, GN or 5th wheel hitch, etc etc

    Realistically, once camper is loaded, 7500 lbs isn’t unheard of.

    7500 camper loaded
    300 for people
    75 for hitch
    ————————-
    7875 lbs

    2250 lbs is on the truck. Look at the sticker inside the truck. Subtract that number from 2250, and that’s how much overweight you are.

    All other numbers are good though, like gross combined weight rating.
     
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  3. Jul 30, 2018 at 12:27 PM
    #3
    Nm6300'asl

    Nm6300'asl New Member

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    Depends on pin weight for sure but we just got a fiver that is almost 8300 dry with a pin weight of 1452. Totally acceptable with my tundra payload. I would bet pin weight on OP's would not be 1625.

    For me the setup will be fine, yes maxed out on payload but lots of room left with gcvwr, rawr, etc.
     
  4. Jul 30, 2018 at 12:30 PM
    #4
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ #WAISTBAND

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    What’s that yellow sticker say inside your truck John?
     
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  5. Jul 30, 2018 at 1:37 PM
    #5
    Nm6300'asl

    Nm6300'asl New Member

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    1460, so I might be about 200 lbs over payload, towing with only me in vehicle and a hitch . With suspension, tire, brake upgrades I have no issue with that small amount over payload while being well below max on every other number.
     
  6. Jul 30, 2018 at 2:28 PM
    #6
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ #WAISTBAND

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    Typically, 5th wheels are 20% of the GTW, realistically 22%.

    But I’ll play.

    I’m willing to do a soda bet your 20% of your claimed 8300 lbs.

    So 1660 lbs already overweight.

    I’m guessing here, but let’s say 200 lbs for your personal weight. 1860 lbs.

    Hitch 75 lbs. probably have airbags or something else. 25 lbs.
    1960 lbs.

    Since I know for a fact you don’t hit the road empty, I’m going to be really conservative and say you only have 500 lbs with food, propane, clothes, maybe a little water (10 gallons worth at least in your system), and whatever else you bring.

    So at the moment you’re sitting at 2460 lbs.

    So as you sit, 1000 lbs over, and I bet I’m pretty close.

    I have the fortunate situation to have a CAT certified scale at work, and use it often for myself and friends. I always enjoy the look on people face when the claimed weight vs actual are so different.
     
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  7. Jul 30, 2018 at 4:44 PM
    #7
    Nm6300'asl

    Nm6300'asl New Member

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    Haha, 2 much guessing, I am 175 at most, trailer is empty except for linens and bath towels, toilet paper. I am fully aware of the yellow sticker, sae j2807, and toyotas (having owned them since 1981 and no other brand). My fiver is not a cross country/my only place to live, seems the weight police like to make blanket statements and not understand everyones situation. I will be pulling 4-5 miles most the time, from storage too a campsite. And the camper would never be towed at your weights listed, not even after a big party and all the tanks full. Appreciate your advice. I could show you a cat ticket from loves but would love for this myth to live on the internet along with the not going below fuel light to keep from burning up the fuel pump.
     
  8. Jul 30, 2018 at 6:25 PM
    #8
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ #WAISTBAND

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    This isn’t a contest. You're overweight period. Arguing over 25 lbs proves my point.

    Do I care if you pile up your truck and trailer combo? Nope....NFG. As long as you don’t run into me, I’m good.
     
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  9. Jul 30, 2018 at 8:04 PM
    #9
    Nm6300'asl

    Nm6300'asl New Member

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    No one said it was a contest, you have a hard on because I might possibly be a very small amount over payload while well under all other weights.

    As I said, could post the cat scale ticket from loves but enjoy people like u perpetuating internet stories. Just because people like to think of you as a towing guru here like they love the bam muffler, aka dirty deeds, does not make you the expert. You act as if no one else is educated enough to know anything, yet I can find and qoute posts of you towing very much overweight, not a measly 25 lbs over payload u think I might be.
     
  10. Jul 30, 2018 at 8:42 PM
    #10
    BuckWallace

    BuckWallace Ball don't lie.

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  11. Jul 30, 2018 at 8:46 PM
    #11
    computeruser6

    computeruser6 Climate heretic

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    I wish that Toyota would make a heavier truck with full-floating 8-lug hubs and a stronger frame.
     
  12. Jul 30, 2018 at 9:21 PM
    #12
    koditten

    koditten New Member

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    I tow the same weight 5er with no problem. I sure as shit am not gonna get worked up about an extra 200 pounds over the bed weight.

    I'm pretty sure Toyota expects us to overload the bed capacity. Why else would they give us adjustable headlights.
     
  13. Jul 30, 2018 at 9:33 PM
    #13
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ #WAISTBAND

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    Post it up with your setup. Prove me wrong, please. I will man up if you post your ticket and your setup.

    I can only go off what thousands of other experts say and talk about. I have no other information other than your empty weight, and it’s a 5th wheel. No brand or size.

    There are plenty of people that can add up and subtract numbers and come to a conclusion. Others obviously fail at this.

    Did I say I have never been overweight? Nope, but I don’t make a habit of it you know, like buying a 8300 lbs dry weight 5th wheel for a 1/2 ton, and one of the weakest payload ones I might add. There’s a good reason that I sold the Tundra and went bigger.

    Your logic in this topic is like telling your old lady it wasn’t cheating, because you didn’t stick it in all the way.

    Over in any category is....over, and I’m betting your very close to your rear axle weight rating as well. Unfortunately, other new people will read this thread and say “well this guy does it” and make a mistake. Personally, again I don’t really give a shit if you kill yourself on the road. I seen a really good one the other day between to stupid RVs. One was going very slow with a large TT and the other was just going way to fast. You guessed it. Rear ended and totaled out two complete tow setups. It was a yard sale.

    The only reason I argue with people like you is for the new person looking for advice. This dialog we are having makes someone from the outside think really hard about what a salesman tells them and what reality really is.

    Again, I really don’t care. I’m my state, people not in commerce can jump into pretty much anything, say “Jesus take the wheel” and get-er-done. There’s no tickets, no issues, insurance is going to cover you. Sometimes, people never get the chance to correct the problem. In Colorado, we are on point for another record year from traffic deaths. Last time on the billboards I believe it was 335 people have move on to the next life.
     
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  14. Jul 30, 2018 at 9:37 PM
    #14
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ #WAISTBAND

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    He’s not 200 lbs overweight either.

    Then again, some people are flatlanders and can get away with it for a bit.

    I always like when people say “tows great!” In my mind, im thinking “wonder what they’re comparing it to?”
     
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  15. Jul 31, 2018 at 4:57 AM
    #15
    Nm6300'asl

    Nm6300'asl New Member

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    I said earlier that when I tow the camper is empty, maybe some bed sheets, towels.and toilet paper. I am the only one in the truck and am not loading the truck. You are adding weight that i do not have in the camper and putting into my payload. I am well under Gcvwr, Twr, Rawr and about 200 over payload. With load range E tires, airbags, shock, rotor and brake pad upgrades I am not unsafe nor concerned about an extra 200 lbs of payload, but hey just for you I will mount the trucks spare tire on the fivers bumper rack. Boom in spec on payload. Enjoy your day.
     
  16. Jul 31, 2018 at 5:01 AM
    #16
    Nm6300'asl

    Nm6300'asl New Member

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  17. Jul 31, 2018 at 5:04 AM
    #17
    2015Crewmax

    2015Crewmax New Member

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    Nice setup!
     
  18. Jul 31, 2018 at 5:20 AM
    #18
    OBXTundra

    OBXTundra New Member

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    I would prefer that everyone remain within the towing limits of their vehicle for my own sake, I'm on the road with you unfortunately. Just as I would prefer that people don't text-and-drive or drink-and-drive.

    I've been overweight before in work trucks and personal vehicles. It's not fun, it's not safe, and I do not make a habit of it. Maybe 3 times in the last 15 years have I pulled something that I knew I shouldn't have. That being said, it was for a short distance, a one-time trip, and I greatly reduced speed/increased following distances.

    Payload is a very important number because it directly reflects the design capabilities of the frame, suspension, and axle. 3 Really important things that if they fail are usually catastrophic. Payload is also the number that most directly affects the handling characteristics of the tow vehicle.

    Some people are very aware of this and take that all into account when they calculate their assumed risk. Others do not understand the negative affects of overweight payload or improper tongue weight, those are the dangerous ones. Everyone assumes a certain amount of risk in their lives. I just try to make sure that the risks I take do not adversely affect bystanders.
     
  19. Jul 31, 2018 at 7:19 AM
    #19
    JC303

    JC303 Same same but different

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    OP Thanks for the question. I enjoy reading threads like this to educate myself from all points of view. I do not have a fiver nor do I plan to get one but I like to learn new things and have a basic understanding.
     
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  20. Jul 31, 2018 at 7:31 AM
    #20
    JoshuaA

    JoshuaA Tundra Fanatic

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    100% agree.

    Tow with something more capable and you'll feel the difference what higher specs do. You bounce less, you don't get sucked in by transports as much, you can speed up on the highway without looking back to see if your tail is starting to wag, up/down hills less an issue etc.

    I can tell you that's exactly how I felt when I drove my buddy's 3/4 Cummins towing 11K, a more comfortable experience than driving my Tundra towing 7K. I'd switch if I had to tow longer distances more frequently, but I'm putting up with it because I only flatland locally 3-4 times a year. If we upgrade to a 5er, Tundra won't be towing it. Showing up after a less stressful journey is worth it.
     
  21. Jul 31, 2018 at 9:55 AM
    #21
    Atomic City Tundra

    Atomic City Tundra New Member

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    So, you said that your sticker says 1460 lbs.

    You said that your dry pin weight is 1452 lbs, that you weight 175 lbs. That puts you 167 over right there. Then you say that with the hitch you are about 200 over - so your hitch is only 33 lbs? What the hell is it made out of? Unobtanium?

    Plus the weight of your airbags.

    And how the heck do you go camping without any supplies? Does someone else bring all the crap for your trip in another vehicle? Sounds efficient.

    It ticks me off when I see setups like yours - you don't have enough truck for that setup. I don't care if you only pull it 4-5 miles. You are still overweight - plain and simple. You even acknowledge it and still go on. Of course, everybody else must be wrong because you have been swimming in the deep end with the sharks since 1981 with your Yota's with no problems. Do Engineers build factors of safety in? Yes. Are the towing stickers/standards too conservative? Yes. But there is a reason to keep things in the shallow end - it is best to keep things safe, especially when other people (other drivers on the highway) are involved. There is a reason that they are called factors of SAFETY - they do it to build safety into the system.

    When I drive by someone loaded like you on the freeway, I generally try to make quick work of it, and point out to my kids that the driver is overloading that truck and could end up in a pretty dangerous situation because of it.

    You need more truck. Or less trailer.
     
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  22. Jul 31, 2018 at 10:16 AM
    #22
    koditten

    koditten New Member

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    Why?

    Towing any trailer changes the driving characteristics of any truck.

    An F350, at 8500 lbs towing a 17000 lbs 5er will just as dangerous as us towing a 6500 lbs 5er when a panic situation occurs. Does the extra 3000lbs of tow vehicle weight make it safer? How.

    I'm pretty sure ineather case, the tow vehicle is not going to make much difference.

    I actually think being overweight and knowing is an advantage. These guys are only ones actually obaying the speed limit. 65 mph in the right lane is perfect for me.

    I actually paced an F350 towing a triple axle 5er doing 85 mph in quitting time traffic! ( I wasn't towing at the time). Now that is dangerous, I'm sure we can all agree.
     
  23. Jul 31, 2018 at 10:28 AM
    #23
    Atomic City Tundra

    Atomic City Tundra New Member

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    It is a force balance thing. Sure, if you overload an F350 in a similar fashion to what you are doing with your Tundra, a similar situation exists.

    So, you are correct - and F350 towing right near or above it's capacity is somewhat similar to the Tundra towing right near or above it's capacity. You could probably make the argument that the F350 is more dangerous because overall mass is higher in the 1 ton case.

    The point I am making is that your Tundra chugging along with a 8300 lb dry weight trailer is not nearly as safe as an F350 or F250 pulling that same trailer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
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  24. Jul 31, 2018 at 10:33 AM
    #24
    zcarpenter92

    zcarpenter92 Yotas, Coronas and 'Merica

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    X3. I’ve pulled 11,000 lb liquid trailers behind both a Tundra and a 3/4 ton Duramax, and while the Tundra pulled decent for a 1/2 ton, the 3/4 ton pulled it exponentially better. The saying that fits well here is “just because you can, doesn’t make it smart.”

    An extra 3000 lbs makes quite the difference, and I’d say a fair amount safer. In addition to the suspension and HD components, that’s why it’d be safer to pull say 17,000 behind a bigger vehicle (like a semi) compared to a 1 ton pickup. I can tell you for a fact that I’d feel better pulling a load in the low teens for weight behind even an International 4600 flatbed truck compared to a 3/4 ton. Get a CDL and drive commercial trucks for awhile and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
     
  25. Jul 31, 2018 at 10:39 AM
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    koditten

    koditten New Member

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    So...I want to know how all these trailer dealers can advertise "half ton towable" and not be liable?

    I like these arguments. I'm fine with being overloaded, but not rediculous overloaded.

    I pulled 10 mpg average for a 650 mile vacation last month. I figure I can't do any better and I don't see a reason to have anything bigger. The tundra does the job just fine.
     
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  26. Jul 31, 2018 at 10:43 AM
    #26
    JoshuaA

    JoshuaA Tundra Fanatic

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    Snap, you play that game with your family too? Lol
     
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  27. Jul 31, 2018 at 10:44 AM
    #27
    Atomic City Tundra

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    They advertise because the total weight of the trailer is less than the tow rating advertised for most 1/2 tons. But there is more to it than that. Especially with the Tundra - which is really pretty weak from a payload standpoint.

    You could do better than 10 mpg with a different truck. Now, is it worth it to pay the extra for the diesel engine? Depends on your situation. Also, like others have said. Pulling a heavy-ish load with a 1/2 ton vs. pulling the same load with a 1 ton is night and day (especially if it is a diesel) different.
     
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  28. Jul 31, 2018 at 10:55 AM
    #28
    zcarpenter92

    zcarpenter92 Yotas, Coronas and 'Merica

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    I can agree with ya on straddling the line of what a Tundra is capable of, because these trucks can pull pretty well for the ratings they have. Having pulled with almost every other half ton, I’d say the heavier weight of the Tundra, compared to say an alumi-50, makes it much more comfortable to tow comparable loads with. But, I can also say that if I were to buy even a “half ton capable” camper, I’d be planning on buying a diesel 1 ton to pull it up to the mountains.
     
  29. Jul 31, 2018 at 6:26 PM
    #29
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ #WAISTBAND

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    I’m sure glad I’m not the only one that finds towing a 5ver with a 1/2 ton is asinine.

    Geographical location also has a big factor. I can guarantee that @Nm6300’asl and @koditten dont pull passes often, and since Mn6300’asl only pulls 4-5 miles unloaded (who the fuck does that?), he never really has the affect of a long trip towing like this.

    Lots of factors that play into this. Weather being one of them. Since none of us can control the weather, this is what kicks people’s asses on a regular basis. Last year was one of my hardest towing trips ever. 5000 miles of high winds, fire smoke, big mountain passes, heavy rain and plenty of road construction issues.

    My wife pulled half of that mileage and thanked me for moving up to a bigger truck, but I had no choice. Her last tow with the Tundra, she flat out said “your kids and I will not go on another trip until you get the proper tow rig.” She just said what I already knew. She also has a Class A CDL.
     
  30. Jul 31, 2018 at 6:37 PM
    #30
    computeruser6

    computeruser6 Climate heretic

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    Having a heavier tow truck in of itself does nothing to allow the truck to tow more. The strength of the frame, spring rate, bigger brakes, suspension design, load rating of the tire/wheel assembly, and load capacity of the axles are what allow a 350/3500 to tow with all of that extra pin weight. Overloading the truck, what a great fucking advantage.
     

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