Suspension Thread #79425

Okay, so now that the deposit is paid on the new roof installed by the local certified collision shop and @FirstGenVol and I didn't mess up the engine (RIP PHM) it's on to the final big 2021 item: Suspension. Front. Back.

I don't need to do any lifts, not lookin' for that Bro Lean that results in an insta-ban. I don't need to level. I'm cool with factory height, my only requirement is to try and get the new parts in before the end of July so that @Tundra2 can see how much cooler the black rusty version is.

I tend to get analysis paralysis fairly easily. I firmly believe in the, "Buy once, cry once" mentality. Here are the initial thoughts I had:

General Springs
OEM Lower & Upper ball joints
Outer tie rods
Steering rack bushings
Sway bar links/bushings
Shackle kit
Misc bolts, other things that would likely get cut or just be too sad to reinstall.

Now, on to kind of the crux of the issue: What can I get that will meet the requirements of:
1) Arrive before July 30th
2) Buy once, cry once
3) 0" lift (the dog already has issues with the height)

Currently running 265/70 R17 which I would likely stick with.

Was contemplating Icon Stage 1 (which can do 0" lift but are preset at 2.5") but was told @Darkness and the crew might have better ideas.

I seek the wisdom of the Hive Brain here at Tundras.

=========================
tl;dr parts decided

Parts Ordered:

• [Front Shocks] Bilstein B8 6112 coilover kit ($732)
  
  Bolt, Flange #9008010124 $5.35 /ea x2
  Washer, Plate #9462241400 $1.81 /ea x2
  Nut #9017014026 $1.19 /ea x2​
• [UCA] SPC 25485 Upper Control Arms ($639.95 /set)
  
  Bolt, Flange #9008010186 $26.22 /ea x2
  Nut, Flange #90017914062 $2.70 /ea x2
  Castle Nut #901711800 $1.58 /ea x2​
• [LCA] OEM: (Right | Left) $250.79/ea
  
  Bumper No 1 (Left & Right) #483040C010 $32.29 /ea x2
  Bumper No 2 (Left & Right) #483050C010 $29.36 /ea x2
  [Align] Bolt, With Washer (Front) #9008011275 $7.39 /ea x2 (@Tundra2 has one)
  [Align] Camber Eccentric (Front, Outside) #4840934020 $19.13 /ea x2
  [Align] Camber Eccentric (Front/Rear Inside) #4845235020 $18.38 /ea x4 (@Tundra2 has one)
  [Align] Camber Eccentric (Rear, Outside) #4840934030 $17.54 /ea x2 (@Tundra2 has one)
  [Align] Bolt, With Washer (Rear) #9008011410 $6.24 /ea x2​
• [LBJ] OEM : (Right | Left) $120.52/ea
  
  Bolt #9010512316 $1.50 /ea x8
  Bolt Propeller Shaft #90105A0187 $1.45 /ea x8
  Ball Joint Nut w/ Washer #9017118003 $1.31 /ea x2
  Dust Cover; Protector #4334634010 $10.75 /ea x2
  Bolt, Flange #9008010066 $1.17 /ea x8​
• [Tie Rods] Outer Tie Rods: (Right | Left) $53.66 /ea
  
  Hexagon Nut #9008017116 $1.18 /ea x2​
• [Rack & Pinion]
  
  $43.64
  Bracket #4551535050 $45.14
  Bolt, Stud #9008011402 $6.24
  Nut #9017914061 $1.37
  Bolt, Flange #9008010184 $5.35
  Bolt, Flange #9008010188 $11.25
  Washer, Plate #9020116033 $5.16
  Nut, Flange #9017816003 $2.06
  Bolt, With Washer #9008011341 $5.35​
• [Sway Bar - Front] Reusing Front
  
  Sway Bar Bracket (Right | Left): $30.64 /ea
  Sway Bar Bracket Bushings: #48815AF040 $20.15 /ea x2
  Sway Bar Bracket Nut: #9008018076 $2.25 /ea x2
  Sway Bar Links #4882034010 $99.06 /ea x2
  Sway Bar Link Nut (Front, Rear): #9017912144 $1.16 /ea x2
  Sway Bar Link Cushion Retainer: #90948A2004 $4.73 /ea x4
  Sway Bar Link Cushion: #488170C010 $12.98 /ea x4
  Sway Bar Link Nut (Rear): #9418401041 $0.99 /ea x2​

• [Rear Shocks] Bilstein B8 5100 shocks ($94 x2)
• [Sway Bar - Rear] Hellwig Rear Sway Bar ($404) Bushings included
• [Leaf Springs] General Springs (Right | Left) $178.99/ea x2 Bushings included
  
  U Bolts: 9/16 x 2 7/16 Square U Bolt BT5-0035S $27.95 /kit x2
  U Bolt Bump Stop Saddle: #BT910 $52.95 /kit
  Shackle Kit, ATS: #BT-T9 $64.95 /ea x2​

Extra Credit:

• [Must] Valve Assembly, Air Control #1763016040 ($93.08)
• [Must] Radiator Bolts #9008011405 ($1.23 x4)

 

I want to wait and see what others recommend but if you haven't already seen this website, it might be worth looking at. It might be best to call the owner(Josh I think) and see what he can guarantee would ship by your deadline. 737-932-0532 The only issue is that he wouldn't return my calls when I tried a few years ago. Maybe that has changed.

Another website to try is AutoAnything. That's who I bought my Icon suspension from and they have good customer service.

 

I'll second the good Auto Anything customer service, plus they throw discounts at you for everything. First time buyer? 15% off. Spending over $100? 10% off. Not sure you want to spend money? 20% off. (Exaggerating but its damn close to accurate.) We had a member here who worked there as well, good guy in the California section, @Sunnier might recall his handle here.

I will say the same thing I tell everybody. Think about what you want your truck to do. Think about how you want your truck to do that, then think about what specific parts will do.

In the world of fancy shocks, Icon and Bilstein have similar ride quality because they are digressively valved. This means driving over a washboard you'll lose some teeth fillings, but if you hit a good dip or bump at speed and will hardly feel it. You might want a ride in Erik's truck if you haven't had one yet to get an idea of the ride. Either brand gives you pretty good street manners around turns and such, they won't wallow around like Fox or King, a bit harsh over speed bumps.

Fox (I usually say avoid but there is a fix for the main problem now) or King might be nice but they won't have the same on road manners. I run Fox and I can make you feel uncomfortable on the freeway, around turns the truck rolls a lot and when turning and hitting a bump it can feel chaotic. I'm so used to this that it doesn't bother me but people who ride in my truck look concerned. You could blame that on me having no sway bar but I didn't have that effect with no sway bar and old Toytecs (Bilstein with 600lb coils).

I will say this, spending more doesn't necessarily make the most sense and doesn't always get you what you need. When I built my suspension I spent a lot of time in the dirt. The last 5 years I rarely spend time off road and it's a real shame. It makes me regret going into such high dollar parts when I would have been fine on the Toytecs. Some day when the smoke of life clears I'll get back to the dirt, but for now I just have fancy parts on a street truck.

Don't get too caught up in the fancy stuff if it isn't something you need. Rebuildable shocks are nice if you have tools and experience to rebuild them yourself. If you don't, the cost of rebuild is more than the cost of say Bilstein replacement. People don't tell you that when they justify expensive shocks by saying "They're rebuildable, I'll never need another set".

 

@Darkness : “Word.”

@eccracer104 is the cool dude that used to hook us up at Auto Anything. He got free of that gig (still fun to watch the YouTube vids he did for ‘em!) and upgraded to a Tundra .

I have Kings on my 1st Gen and the descriptions Luis gave for road manners is accurate. Plus mine is long travel = no front or back sway bars so we list hard on turns and feel chaotic everywhere.

I think @eccracer104 ran Bilstein on his Tacos and liked ‘em. He’s pretty knowledgeable about how others behave too though… and has helped install numerous sets in various driveways over the years— when you get down to specific questions (not, ‘what’s the best for all conditions?’), hit him up and he can probably help you dial it in from your short list.

The challenge I see is, there’s not much in the way of immediately available inventory of premium parts. That’s a big hurdle to overcome. A good way forward may be to score a set used.

Edit: @Darkness never plays in the dirt with us.

 

Stock height? Billy 4600's available front and back on Amazononian for July 2-7 delivery.

 

My life has been one busy weekend after another for the last 3 years.

I'm tired of that. After this Summer that ends. Got one Beetle home yesterday, other one comes home 7/31, then fun time might begin. I'm used to just bashing around solo or chasing one or two friends around the orange groves so going out with a group would be fun.

 

That's basically what I was thinking. He doesn't want to off-road. He doesn't want to lift the front. I told him I thought Icon was overkill for his needs. Same with Fox/King etc.

Given his criteria, do you think he'd be happy just doing Bilstein front and rear? We talked about 5100's vs 6112's. Do you happen to know the difference? 4600's may not be a bad idea either.

 

5100s all seem 4-6+ week backorder, but I haven't looked at AutoAnything yet. 6112 seem faster, but I thought I recall reading that they didn't ride as well as 5100s? I've no idea about 4600s, but all of this is why when I found Icon's were in stock and able to ship I leaned towards them.

I do recall reading Fox was not great with Tundra. As mentioned, the most this truck might be used for would be filling the bed with dirt/compost for the yard kinda stuff. No plans to offroad.

 

Matches this ole farts desire, street riding only. Will stick OEM everything on fnt/rear suspension when the time arrives or things settle down somewhat more….2022 will be good year for my tundra wrenching !

 

4600's are what our trucks came with from the factory if you had the TRD package. So it's as close to "stock" as you can get I guess. I think the 5100's are viewed as an upgrade and folks like them because they are height adjustable for people that want to "level" their truck out.

 

The 6112 has a wider shock body for more oil capacity, I believe a thicker shaft, a much better designed attachment at the lower eyelet, and uses a linear coil rather than the factory coil. That will be slightly more harsh than stock ride since it is a 650 linear, where using stock coils on 5100s you have a progressive coil still. The question is, is it too harsh?

Looking at the formula I don't think it would be. The Toytecs I had in 2009 were a very similar combo of Bilstein shock with a 600lb linear coil which rode very nice for a stock-weight 2wd truck. A 650lb coil won't be very different. I think if he isn't getting a thick walled E rated tire it should be a comfortable ride. If I started over I would lean to those.

There are a few guys here running 6112 up front and 5150 in the rear, maybe they can chime in.

@jpink I wouldn't be in such a rush. Don't narrow your search by what is in stock, Bilstein are historically on backorder. In 2009 when I first ordered for my truck they were on a 2 month back order everywhere, that hasn't changed really. Don't get the wrong parts just to have parts. Living with the wrong parts is worse than waiting 2 months.

A few other shops to check with are:

Wheelers Off Road, no sales tax, great customer service, they know Toyota, and if it isn't factory direct shipping they send you candy and stickers.

Toytec, again very schooled on Toyota, great people to talk to and also a forum vendor.

Off Road Warehouse, knowledgeable staff and generally good to work with. Prices are very competitive on parts.

I don't know if you can get a better price than auto anything, you might not get the Toyota specific support that you would get elsewhere but you always have us.

 

4600 is as close to stock ride as it gets. Somebody pointed out to me that the yellow/blue TRD shocks are not really 4600, they might have different valving, but its close enough in my book.

 

5100's set at factory ride height would work if you can find them. You would have the option in the future to level if your heart were to change on the matter. Flexibility. Otherwise, 4600's are available right meow on Amazing.

 

The burning question I have John @jpink is, have you made it to the smokie mountains and are you a hawkeye or volunteer

 

Born and raised a Hawkeye, so I guess until @FirstGenVol beats it out of me that's where I'll land.

I did "dip a toe in the water" quick with a Smokie Mountain run back in October, but haven't since.

 

Okay, not factoring any special coupons. Just window prices:

Toytec: Ultimate : @ $999.97 /kit & Backordered (0" - 3" lift)
1stGenOffroad: ARB OME Level Kit: @ $819.99 /kit (0" - 2" lift?)
AutoAnything: Bilstein B8 6112 @ $732 /kit (0" - 2.6" lift)

AutoAnything also has the B8 5100 @ $94/each

@Darkness for whatever reason made me feel like I should guinea pig the combination from AutoAnything with 6112 & 5100 and provide some more feedback on it. Is that terrible?

AutoAnything also has the Hellwig Sway Bars... I want to maintain some stinkin' sway bars....though that was recently replaced on the Tundra (prior to me putting about 20k miles on it). Still worth replacing? I know @FirstGenVol saw my sway bar and still suggested new one at the same time. I'm not opposed, don't know what signs to look for in replacing sway bar.

Should I consider a brand other than Hellwig?


If the 6112/5100 combo gets the @Darkness FAFO seal of approval then I'll pull the trigger today. I'd be happy with it and the total would be $1,021.45 delivered without any promos. Then on to the misc other pieces.

 

Not your actual sway bar, just your links. Sorry for not being more clear. I'm sure the sway bar is fine. You could add a sway bar in the rear if you wanted to. Hellwig is popular.

 

Yeah, the one on your list I vote against is the Toytec 700# kit because, if you don’t plan to carry a heavy front bumper, they may be too stiff. Butting back out, awaiting the descent of @Darkness.

 

Toytec site claimed 700# necessary for double cab, which I have. But maybe that’s wrong? All the others seem to not care about my DC.

 

If you're just gonna drive around on the street and occasionally haul stuff in the back, the 4600 Billie's are only $400 for a full set, uses your factory springs. After the novelty of the new shocks wear off, you'll likely not think about or notice whatever is under there. 4600's would save you a lot of coin and accomplish the job. But, if you hate money, go for the high dollar option plus bragging rights. That extra $600 in your pocket would go a ways towards other mods. Did I mention that the Billie's are available now? one of your criteria?

 

I’m not opposed to replacing it while I’m there anyways. Especially if there’s an advantage to matching it up with rear.

 

Haha I don’t care about bragging rights (publicly but privately heck yeah!!)

however I don’t want to reuse existing springs. They’re old and rusty and I’m going to plan on basically most parts being destroyed or in not good enough shape to reuse.

 

No need really. It would be a waste of money unless it's severely rusted which I don't think it was. The actual sway bar really isn't a wear item so you just need to replace the end links. Even the rear sway bar isn't necessary but you might like it. You could always add that later if you wanted to. It sounds like your cousin had already replaced the original front sway bar anyways.

 

OME Bill-E combo's are popular. Not sure what their no lift options are though.

 

Do they sell any 4600's that come preassembled with springs? I don't see any on the Zon.

 

OME no longer includes the first gen Tundy in their suspension selector?

 

I will crawl under and double check/snap some pics after work. Will give me opportunity to look at all the fluid film too.

 

FYP

 

I can't help it. I see rust and I cover it in fluid film. They really should sponsor me.

 

Weh-yell, I dunno. Seems a stock bumper later-gen (heavier) Tundra would be happy with 700# so I’m not seeing the need for that spring rate for a 1st Gen double cab. That said, I don’t have any sure reason to say it’s wrong. It just seems wrong enough, based on all I’ve read and learned on here over the years, that I question it so you know to verify before you jump in. Plus, they’re the most pricey on your list. And it looks like their back-ordered, maybe putting you out past your desired install-date.

To @KNABORES point, for the ways you plan to use your truck, as long as it’s not ridiculously stiff (uncomfortable) or soft (rolling), you won’t focus long on suspension once you get it dialed in.