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Slowly getting the bugs out

Discussion in 'Towing & Hauling' started by galaxyflyer1, Jun 24, 2018.

  1. Jun 24, 2018 at 6:36 PM
    #1
    galaxyflyer1

    galaxyflyer1 [OP] New Member

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    20180624_155927.jpg Hey all. Using my 2017 5.7 SR5 double cable( with a TRD rear Sway bar) to pull my 16' TT. Fully loaded probably around 3800 lbs of towing. Tongue weight is about 400 pounds.

    With my bike and gen also in the bed, the back sags about 3". So I opted to go with Firestone air bags instead of a weight distribution system because of the low weight rating of the trailer's single axle. About 70 lbs in each bag brings the truck back level. The ride does feel much better and my "boating effect" seems to be gone.

    What I'm noticing now is (or it was always there), kind of a jerking feel making the truck rock a little from front to back. This is during driving straight down the road. I do use a trailer hitch sway bar system and when watching the mirrors, I don't see sway. Just kind of jerking actions as if I was hauling a huge water tank that is slushing. That's probably the best why to describe it. Before using the airbags, the trailers nose was down about 3 inches. Now looking at it and using a level, It seem to be pertly straight. But I know that its always best to in error with the nose slightly down. Is this perhaps my issue? I can't move any weight around in the trailer because I really don't add much but cloths and fill the stationary trailer water tanks. Maybe I should lower the hitch an inch or so?

    Your thoughts please,
    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
    ColoradoTJ likes this.
  2. Jun 24, 2018 at 6:38 PM
    #2
    COMiamiFan

    COMiamiFan Now you know something

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  3. Jun 24, 2018 at 6:46 PM
    #3
    Alloutdrs1

    Alloutdrs1 New Member

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    From that picture it looks like the camper tongue is up a little, you need to drop it down some. Also the airbags will make your truck ride very different, I added a set to my wifes Tacoma and hate the effect it has on the truck.
     
  4. Jun 24, 2018 at 7:18 PM
    #4
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ #WAISTBAND Staff Member

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    Hey Bob.

    What camper do you own, make and model.

    How do you know the tongue weight is 3-400 lbs?
     
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  5. Jun 24, 2018 at 7:22 PM
    #5
    Bprose

    Bprose New Member

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    Is that an 82 XL500?
     
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  6. Jun 24, 2018 at 7:22 PM
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    galaxyflyer1

    galaxyflyer1 [OP] New Member

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    OK Thank you. I think that will be my next test.
     
  7. Jun 24, 2018 at 7:27 PM
    #7
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ #WAISTBAND Staff Member

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    The reason I ask is 70 lbs in the bags is....A Lot.

    I used to have 70-80 lbs on this set up.
    87A8000C-A0C5-4988-AE12-5965B63862AC.jpg
     
  8. Jun 24, 2018 at 7:32 PM
    #8
    galaxyflyer1

    galaxyflyer1 [OP] New Member

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    1983 Honda 250XLR my baby! Trailer is a 2018 Cherokee Wolf Pup 16BHS. Trailer GVWR is 3917. Axel tag indicates 3500 max. But what about the extra 417 Pounds? well that's distributed to go to the tongue according to the specs. So, for those who wonder why I don't use a WDS, is that much of the truck bed weight will go straight to that under rated trailer axel.
     
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  9. Jun 24, 2018 at 7:38 PM
    #9
    galaxyflyer1

    galaxyflyer1 [OP] New Member

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    Maybe I can go with less PSI in the bags. What are the symptoms of over airing?
     
  10. Jun 24, 2018 at 8:14 PM
    #10
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ #WAISTBAND Staff Member

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    So your capacity and tongue weight are tied together, but your capacity is higher than tongue weight.

    So let’s just say you have 1500 lbs of capacity. For ease of things, let’s just say you have a max tongue weight of 900 lbs.

    Trailer tongue weight is 500 lbs with everything inside the camper.

    So you have 400 lbs left in tongue weight, 1100 in capacity.

    Let’s say you are 200 lbs, bike is 200 lbs and generator is 100 lbs.
    You still have 600 lbs of capacity, but getting close to the 3/4 capacity of your truck. It will sag.

    You need 3/4” of rake to make the traction control happy on Tundras. Try using less air in the bags, and I will tell you why.

    The water splashing effect you have is very common on TT, and it’s called porpoising (kinda like how a dolphin swims, or sea saw effect). What makes this worse is you have a single axle trailer with the axle positioned behind centerline of the trailer. This tows and reverses like a dream, but for comfort, your SOL. Then the suspension is cycled, the trailer is like a huge lever on your rear suspension. Rear suspension compresses and rebounds violently (welcome to leaf springs, and you even made it worse with airbags), this action tosses the tongue upward and that’s why you feel the sea saw effect.

    Some things you can try. Lower the bag pressure and let your factory suspension absorb more.
    Shocks that are tunable and really slow down the rebound. This is pretty expensive. Another route is getting a Load Distrabution Hitch.

    https://www.equalizerhitch.com/find-your-hitch-size

    Sell the air bags. They suck for anything other than heavy loads over the axle in the bed or a 5th wheel/GN setup.

    If you live in CO, you can test my LDH out to see if it helps. Even help you set it up.
     
  11. Jun 24, 2018 at 8:26 PM
    #11
    jeremyd

    jeremyd 2014 Crewmax SR5

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    I have a TT similar in size and I put 25 psi in the bags to make it level...
     
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  12. Jun 24, 2018 at 8:35 PM
    #12
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ #WAISTBAND Staff Member

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    Something doesn’t sound right does it Jeremy?
     
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  13. Jun 24, 2018 at 8:36 PM
    #13
    jeremyd

    jeremyd 2014 Crewmax SR5

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    nope
     
  14. Jun 24, 2018 at 9:02 PM
    #14
    galaxyflyer1

    galaxyflyer1 [OP] New Member

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    Excellent Point. You have described this perfectly for me. Before I get rid of the bags, I will try less air. You see, I measured the wheel well before loading (39") then aired up to get that back after loading. I think I hit a point during air up, after so much air, the movement was very slow. Perhaps that's were I should have stopped? Should I leave some sag? when you say 3/4" rake, you mean ass up 3/4" more than front right. I can't do a WDS on that trailer. Axel is to under rated.
     
  15. Jun 24, 2018 at 9:06 PM
    #15
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ #WAISTBAND Staff Member

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    I would try the bags at 45 psi and drop 5 psi until your desired result.

    You need 3/4” higher in the rear than the front. So if the truck was completely level, bump up the air bags until another 3/4” upward movement.
     
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  16. Jun 24, 2018 at 9:21 PM
    #16
    galaxyflyer1

    galaxyflyer1 [OP] New Member

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    One last question if you can answer this. How much rake is usually present on a stock Tundra. I was assuming that by adding air to achieve the "before measurement" put me back to stock, which may be the wrong way to do it. Hoping that a stock Tundra has more than 3/4 rake, less air may do the trick for me and still have plenty of rake.
    Thanks for all your time.
     
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  17. Jun 24, 2018 at 9:25 PM
    #17
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ #WAISTBAND Staff Member

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    I don’t have a good solid answer since a Tundra is no longer in the garage. One of the fine members on this forum can answer that for you. If I had to guess, 2.75-3”.
     
  18. Jul 4, 2018 at 2:08 AM
    #18
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ #WAISTBAND Staff Member

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    Update?
     
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  19. Jul 4, 2018 at 1:39 PM
    #19
    galaxyflyer1

    galaxyflyer1 [OP] New Member

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    I'm taking your advice. The next time that I hook up and go camping, I will use just enough air so that there will be a slight rake. I'm with you. I think that pumping the air bags up to create the stock height (70 lbs) took out a lot of the "working" suspension. Gotta find that golden spot. After my next trip (perhaps in a couple of months) I will update everyone.
    Thanks for all your help.
    Bob
     
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