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Ram, Chevy and Ford Test Drives

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by TundraLaw, Dec 5, 2020.

  1. Dec 5, 2020 at 8:58 AM
    #1
    TundraLaw

    TundraLaw [OP] Fourth Year Member

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    Hey all,

    I got the itch about 3 weeks ago to upgrade my tundra, and in turn I tried out all the manufacturers. Here are my thoughts, as I hope it’ll be helpful for some others in the same position that have urges and impulses to venture off the San Antonio factory.

    Ford: Cool features, utilitarian interior, but made like shit. I had initially put a deposit on a 2021 F150 powerboost, so I went to drive a 2020. The new model has a totally different interior, but the fit and finish, exterior, along with the ecoboost, will be generally the same. The engine felt nice, and torquey, especially at 4500-5k base elevation. My main gripe was with the feel of the truck in general.

    The aluminum body felt light and good, but it felt uneasy at speed, and when I briefly took it off-road on my solo COVID test drive. The body panels didn’t line up as a Toyota normally does. Other than that, a good truck. I can see their planned obsolescence in the design though, and I’m sure the 21 is a lot better as far as fit and finish, and hopefully build quality.

    Ram: I drove a Cummins 2500 and a power wagon. I had no interest in the 1500 as it looked like an overgrown, and chopped Chrysler Town and Country. The Cummins was a blast to drive for the engine alone. It just keeps pulling. But other than that it was heavy, and drove like an aircraft carrier, and turned like one too.
    The Power Wagon was my favorite of all three trucks. That 6.4 hemi just puts a smile on your face. It’s exciting, and feels leaps and bounds faster than the tundra, even though it’s well within the specs of the latter. Other than the engine and suspension, and looks, it was all bad.

    The Ram is made poorly. Touch the rear tail light and it moves, a lot. The body panels don’t line up correctly, and the tailgate always has a gap of some sort at full close. The interior looked cool, but felt like a prototype, rather than the real deal. Everything just felt cheap, and poorly made. I wanted to love the Power Wagon, and honestly kind of do... but I know myself, and if I got one it would be down at the service bay daily getting adjustments, and warranty work done.

    Did I mention that the Power Wagon’s rear slider stopped working on the test drive? it was stuck closed, after opening/closing once.

    Also, the giant screen is cool to look at, but really unnecessary when trying to just adjust the AC. Yes there are side buttons for the AC, but if you want to change the directional flow, it goes through multiple menus on the touch screen. It’s just not necessary IMO.

    I also drove my buddies 2020 Sierra 1500 AT4, which felt great, but not exciting. It was a refined large SUV on the road, and far too tame for where I take my trucks. The 6.2 was special, but I would be too worried with off-roading a truck that has struts and a huge front fascia.

    I didn’t include pics of the Sierra or Ford, as anyone can look up a basic Sierra or F150.

    Conclusions: As a result of my multi day, multi-brand test drive experience, I have these takeaways. Don’t get a Ford. There are better options out there for less money. GM is a good brand, and their trucks feel solid. I can’t speak to warranty work, but my town has a lot of Sierra’s and Silverado’s in both 1500/2500 and they don’t appear to always be in the shop from observation and experience.

    The Ram Power Wagon is by far the most exciting truck, but it’s made like shit. Really is. I’d be hard pressed someone tell me otherwise when you actually go drive one and feel the truck. It’s almost like the RAM factory has all their employees making the trucks with their eyes closed.

    I spoke to my wife, and she sighed with relief. The tundra is here to stay—

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    Fiesta346, equin, Rica25 and 17 others like this.
  2. Dec 5, 2020 at 9:03 AM
    #2
    Outbound

    Outbound SSEM #2.5, Token AmeriCanadian

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    Cool write up. That enormous screen in the Ram would piss me off. It's just not needed. What's wrong with a sub-10" screen? It's not like a guy is watching John Wick while driving. No full center console in the Ram either? Lame.
     
  3. Dec 5, 2020 at 9:03 AM
    #3
    PLC721

    PLC721 New Member

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    Good reviews, I've been looking for new trucks as well so I know what your going through.

    I'm a huge fan of the 2016-2018 Ram 2500 Cummins Laramie, and is ultimately what I've decided on.

    Test drove a 2020 Lariat F-150 but figured it would be a waste of money buying a new truck that won't tow or haul much more than my Tundra. I will say I loved the ride of the F-150, comfy, plush and the 5.0 seemed to run very well. I didn't really notice the body line issues myself, but maybe I wasn't looking as closely. I also though the Lariat's interior was very nice.

    Considered an AT4 with the 6.2 but again, might as well keep the Tundra vs another 1500 level truck.
     
    TundraLaw[OP] likes this.
  4. Dec 5, 2020 at 9:15 AM
    #4
    Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Bigfoot Hunter, Sasquatch too, but not Yeti

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    That RAM interior is a huge turn off. I didn't realize it was that fugly looking. That display is total overkill. It's like having a drive-in theater in your cab. Nonsensical.
     
    Hoff, Rica25, Cpl_Punishment and 3 others like this.
  5. Dec 5, 2020 at 10:51 AM
    #5
    TundraLaw

    TundraLaw [OP] Fourth Year Member

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    It really was. I felt let down after hearing how nice their interiors were supposed to be. Makes you appreciate physical knobs so much.
     
  6. Dec 5, 2020 at 10:53 AM
    #6
    TundraLaw

    TundraLaw [OP] Fourth Year Member

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    I am 100% there with you on everything you just said. The Ford was great, but yea. I also got turned off by the Ford forums that were predominantly focused on Ford not honoring warranty work, and there was a lot that needed to be done.

    The GMC was fantastic, and I think GM has a good thing going for itself. It just wasn’t different enough, as you said, from the tundra. I would only consider a gmc/Chevy 2500, but I wasn’t blown away by anything enough to sell my truck.
     
  7. Dec 5, 2020 at 10:57 AM
    #7
    Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Bigfoot Hunter, Sasquatch too, but not Yeti

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    I like how the Power Wagon is set up for 4 wheeling and all from the factory but I couldn't pull the trigger on one.
     
  8. Dec 5, 2020 at 10:59 AM
    #8
    TundraLaw

    TundraLaw [OP] Fourth Year Member

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    Yup. It was my favorite to drive for sure. Just felt ready to take on the Sierra’s. I didn’t pull the trigger on one mostly because of the things I didn’t need, and the capability of my tundra right now. If the power wagon was instead a Toyota or GM product in 3/4 size, I’d already have it in my garage.
     
    Black Wolf[QUOTED] likes this.
  9. Dec 5, 2020 at 11:50 AM
    #9
    Wallygator

    Wallygator Well Zippedy Da Do!

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    Nice comparison. I don't need a 3/4 ton or higher truck but if I did I would probably go with a gas 7.3 liter Ford XL work truck. All the other Fords just are so complicated and always seem to have issues. The GMC would also be a consideration but they are very proud of those.

    The Rams get such good reviews and many never have issues so hard to say with them. You are the first I have heard from about the build quality but that would for sure be a huge turn off. Also I tend to lean towards work style trucks and don't go for all the fancy crap so the Ram I would choose wouldn't have that debacle of an interior. Probably why I actually love my SR5 Tundra. It just works.
     
    WFD473, Chucho and Black Wolf like this.
  10. Dec 5, 2020 at 12:18 PM
    #10
    glowblue

    glowblue From time to time

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    I’ve done this before when I got a wild hair to test drive other trucks. I liked the look of the Chevy Trail Boss but hated just about everything - interior, 10 speed transmission, etc. just makes me realize how much I really like the Tundra.
     
    Black Wolf likes this.
  11. Dec 5, 2020 at 1:27 PM
    #11
    Megaman

    Megaman New Member

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    I test drove a 1500 RAM and a 2500....not a power wagon. I never thought of the 1500 Rams looked like a smashed down Town and Country until you mentioned it....and I can't argue that ! Good one!

    The 5.7 Hemi (non hybrid) in the Ram 1500 is a great engine. Only issue I know of with those are an issue with the lifters for the MDS system wearing down prematurely and gouging cams. I test drove a dark blue Ram 1500 with the "Built to Serve" package. Had the traditional 5.7 Hemi without the hybrid crap. Sticker price was around 58K, had panoramic sunroof, leather, and that huge 12" touch screen. I agree its way too big and not needed. I hear the screen alone is over 900 bucks to replace once it goes out after the warranty is up..... Also it appears there's issues with the third brake light mounting gaskets leaking causing water intrusion into the cab! I thought it had a decent amount of power. I wish our Tundras had an 8 speed trans. Keeps the engine in the power band better and shifts quick. They're actually great transmissions. But in the end, the dealer wouldn't budge but a few grand off sticker, so I walked and decided to look at other brands.

    - I looked at the Power Wagons too. It was just a little more "truck" than what I could use. I've not heard anything bad about the 392 truck engines....
     
    TundraLaw[QUOTED][OP] likes this.
  12. Dec 5, 2020 at 1:42 PM
    #12
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Young men never die.

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    You have to go to a pretty high end truck with any of the big 3 to get bucket seats in an HD.
     
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  13. Dec 5, 2020 at 1:44 PM
    #13
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Young men never die.

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    You're the only person I've ever heard of who hates that 10 speed in a GM application.
     
  14. Dec 5, 2020 at 1:50 PM
    #14
    Outbound

    Outbound SSEM #2.5, Token AmeriCanadian

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    Oh, HD. Yeah, I guess eh? My 2011 Sierra 1500 SLE had bucket seats. I think the current equivalent is the "All Terrain" package.
     
  15. Dec 5, 2020 at 2:59 PM
    #15
    Toolaholic

    Toolaholic New Member

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    I wish my tundra could have been less expensive and a regular cab. Just couldn’t pull the trigger in GM , Ford or Dodge. The things I fixed on that Dakota r/t were endless . I wanted reliability so I guess that for me bigger payment and extra doors
     
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  16. Dec 5, 2020 at 3:08 PM
    #16
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    I cant believe they dont sell a regular cab anymore.

    29A4715B-1BFE-4C40-994D-5BC46D858810.jpg
     
  17. Dec 5, 2020 at 3:29 PM
    #17
    glowblue

    glowblue From time to time

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    Just drive it and form your own opinion. Hesitation off the line, hunting gears, I could go on and on...
     
  18. Dec 5, 2020 at 3:31 PM
    #18
    Lovetrucks

    Lovetrucks Member

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    In all seriousness if you love the Tundra nothing the big 3 offers is going to float your boat . The big 3 have the basic trucks for sure but most people buying them want all the toys with the convenience of the bed .
     
  19. Dec 5, 2020 at 3:42 PM
    #19
    belanger9

    belanger9 New Member

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    Hoping the 2021 F150 will be better fit and finish over a 2020 is pie in the sky thinking. They've had the same build quality for years, I only go as far back as the early 2010's with F150's and they've all had the same interior quality. So I'd expect the 2021 to be in the same line of quality. One thing to note with Ram 1500's is you have 2 choices - the new design (DT) which emulates Ford's and has a soft and cushy ride and has more interior tech or the old design (DS) which feels more trucky (stiffer but more direct feel) but it has less tech. I just went for a Ram Classic (DS) for the wife (had to get rid of a crap Hyundai Tucson and Ram gave us the best deal by far, I'll roll the dice on the reliability) and I feel like it's very comparable to the Tundra. Feels like the engines have the same power but the transmissions act very differently. The Ram will downshift if you even think about more throttle while the Tundra waits and asks if you're sure you want to downshift. And ours doesn't have that many fit and finish issues, only thing we can think of is the sunroof shade only opens when you open the sunroof, we both think it should open on it's own and then you have a moonroof.

    The more you drive the other ones, the more you realize (or at least I do) how competitive the Tundra is - and it's a 14 year old design. So if Toyota thinks the 2022 will be leaps and bounds better, what is that going to do with the competition?

    And my biggest gripe with the Big 3 is their marketing - sure the have a half ton with 3000+ lb payload, but it's a specific model which very few people buy. Ford has that fine print on every trim - to get the big numbers you need heavy payload package and heavy towing package (which adds $$$$). The way they market it is essentially like me saying I look like Brad Pitt (if you stand 100 feet away and squint really hard). I like the Tundra - I see you have X cab style and trim and I know what it's capable of - whereas the other 3 (I know for sure Ford and Ram, but I believe GM isn't any different) I would have no clue without looking at the door sticker then doing some digging. Like I still don't know what the wife's Ram can tow, but I do know it has a payload of 1200 lbs.
     
  20. Dec 5, 2020 at 3:48 PM
    #20
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Young men never die.

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    No bucket seats in the SLE/LT any more. Have to go to the Elevation/RST. Which is ok because those are the best looking trims on the new trucks, in my opinion.
     
    Outbound[QUOTED] likes this.
  21. Dec 5, 2020 at 3:49 PM
    #21
    Pkahir12

    Pkahir12 New Member

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    Great write up. The Detroit big 3 mostly focuses on quantity rather then quality. Sell more and more by constantly changing important components and sell it to the buyer as “new” or “Next Gen.”
     
  22. Dec 5, 2020 at 3:59 PM
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    glowblue

    glowblue From time to time

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    This...they might have the bells and whistles that excites a lot of folks but for people who just want a truck the Tundra is a great choice.
     
  23. Dec 6, 2020 at 8:30 AM
    #23
    Terndrerrr

    Terndrerrr guzzling dealer repellent

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    Presented yourself with the evidence and made the best decision. Maybe you are a decent lawyer after all! :D

    Seriously though, Ford’s planned obsolescence is a real thing. Also, who wants to tow what Ford says they’re capable of with that lightweight of a truck? Seems unsafe, like you’d get pushed around a lot.

    I can’t bring myself to even test drive a Ram. The only domestic that came close to wooing me away from buying a Tundra was the 6.2/10 spd in the Silverado. Man that was fun to drive. Just felt like effortless power on demand. No lag, no need to downshift to maintain speed on the highway or even to quickly pass another vehicle. But I had the chance to run it on 87 octane (GM recommends premium), and there was a noticeable difference. Plus I just don't trust the cylinder deactivation over the long term. I already have a 5.3L in my wife’s Yukon XL that gives me headaches with oil consumption and fouled plugs. I recently cleaned all the cylinders, replaced all the plugs, and bought an AFM Disabler, so I hope most of the issues are behind me. For a while at least.
     
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  24. Dec 6, 2020 at 9:26 AM
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    Lovetrucks

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    I didn’t know the payloads were that low in the Classics . My Rebel has a 1482 lbs payload and the only thing I’ve added to it that wasn’t from the factory is a soft roll up tonneau cover .
     
  25. Dec 6, 2020 at 9:31 AM
    #25
    PLC721

    PLC721 New Member

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    Been putting a lot of thought into this big guy!

    4th Gen Cummins Laramie.... 16-20 mpg's..... but I love my tundra and still have a slight hesitation with reliability.

     
  26. Dec 6, 2020 at 9:49 AM
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    GODZILLA

    GODZILLA Hail to the King, Baby.

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    Don't let that minor MPG gain even be a factor. 3 MPG is a negligible cost savings. I love a cummins, but the EGR, DEF, and other EPA requirements have pretty much killed the diesel's reliability. They aren't any long lived than a gasser now, and they are WAY more expensive to repair if anything goes wrong.
     
  27. Dec 6, 2020 at 9:55 AM
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    Wallygator

    Wallygator Well Zippedy Da Do!

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    That stuff and there is no cost savings owning a diesel. I have had several. The maintenance and fuel are more, etc.. but they are fun to drive.
     
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  28. Dec 6, 2020 at 10:02 AM
    #28
    PLC721

    PLC721 New Member

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    Oh I would absolutely delete it if I do go this route, hence why i'm looking for a used 4th gen compared to a new one, not to mention a new one is like 70k :frusty:
     
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  29. Dec 6, 2020 at 2:32 PM
    #29
    Billet Wilson

    Billet Wilson New Member

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    The Power Wagon is available with an 8.4" screen that includes the usual buttons you'd expect. I don't care for the 12" screen myself but the traditional screen is on point. I've looked over numerous Power Wagons and Im not seeing the quality issues you mentioned.

    As for the Cummins, the engine is dead reliable. The 68RFE transmission is what you need to stay away from. You can upgrade to the Aisin but it requires the step up to a 3500 so you would need to pull heavy or often to really benefit from the upgrade. The Aisin is a medium duty transmission as well and it shifts like one so don't expect anywhere near the smoothness you're accustomed to. You need solid positive shifts when handling 20-30K lbs and the Aisin definitely delivers on that front. Unfortunately, programmers have not been able to crack the Aisin so if you do delete and tune the factory transmission tune will remain.

    I feel Ford is playing catch up on their 2021 F-150. The truck seems like a forced update and nothing more than a response to Ram. Im all for competition but this feels like a desperate attempt to remain relevant.

    Going to look at my first Tundra tomorrow. I've always had my eye on the 5.7L and Im worried it won't be around much longer when the updated truck comes around. Not happy about the mpg but its pretty equivalent to what the 6.4L gets in the Ram. I just bought a 2021 4Runner TRD Pro and appreciate the proven platform. That got me thinking about trading my truck for a Tundra as well for the very same reason.
     
    TundraLaw[OP] likes this.
  30. Dec 6, 2020 at 3:05 PM
    #30
    RonW

    RonW New Member

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    Did you consider a Titan at all?

    I'm happy with my Tundra but I'd look at Nissan before I went with big 3.
     
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