Questions about payload and GVWR

So, my wife and I were thinking about renting a travel trailer. I was initially looking at these two:

• http://www.americanadventurervrentals.com/rv-rental/111200/
• http://www.americanadventurervrentals.com/rv-rental/20360/

and I started to crunch the numbers. Here are the stickers on the door jam of my truck:



According to the stickers, I have 1201 pounds of payload (1320-119). But I have done lots of mods to my truck so I went to a truck scale and got the actual weight. With a full tank of gas, myself, and my dog, the truck weighs:


Removing my weight and my dog's weight, the weight of the truck is 5950 pounds (6240-290). That leaves 1050 pounds of payload. (/sigh )

I made a little payload chart based on the information on the trailers:


And this is before any other cargo. Also (I think), the trailer dry hitch weight doesn't include the weight of batteries, propane tanks, and any other dealer installed options. So, it is very likely that there could be another 200-300 pounds of tongue weight.

Even if I went with this small trailer:

• http://www.americanadventurervrentals.com/rv-rental/135621/

When everything is loaded, I would be over GVWR. WTF? So, technically (legally), I cannot tow anything with my truck ?!?

So, my questions ... how are you guys getting away towing these large travel trailers? Are you just ignoring the GVWR? Do you just go by the stickers in the door jam and hope that is close enough?

For example, look at this post:
https://www.tundras.com/threads/what-do-you-tow-with-your-tundra.238/page-60#post-1707731
He says that he has a 940 pound tongue weight. Add the weight of the shell (200 pounds?), the weight distribution hitch (100 pounds), I see 2 bikes (50 pounds), I assume at least 2 people (400 pounds) and all their gear (150 pounds). Conservatively, that's at least 1840 pounds on the truck. I know that is over the GVWR of the truck.

Thanks for any input

 

Lots of people are overloading their trucks.

I cringe when I see a big camper behind any half ton truck.

 

I wouldn't tow those trailer with my stock truck. Unless you are towing in flat road and close to home. I love my truck but I will be looking at a 3/4 ton truck next year.

 

You can tow, just not those. The Tundra is a 12+ year old platform, and the payload reflects that. You'd have to look at smaller trailers or a bigger truck, unfortunately. Which is more important: Tundra or big trailer? Everyone has different needs, and if a big trailer is one of yours then you'll likely have to step up to a 3/4 ton truck or bigger.

I dont even look at trailers over 20 feet, and I'd rather go with a 16 or 18 footer.

 

My wife and I are looking at doing similar, and have found a couple of TTs that we like right in that same range 5000lbs +/-. I had the truck weighed with both of us in it, and the running boards, tonneau cover, and all other add-ons in the truck. Came out to exactly 6400lbs. Figuring Trailer Hitch for 100lbs, and two small dogs right at 50lbs total. The GVWR on my 2018 platinum with 4WD is 7200 and my sticker says original carrying capacity reduced by 0lbs.

It leaves us with about 650lbs of tongue weight if we load everything in the TT and nothing else in the vehicle. I'm curious what was added to yours that reduced carrying capacity by 119lbs. Was it running boards by the dealer? I have given some thought to dumping my running boards and picking up about 125lbs. That should get us under the maximum, but still very close.

 

Intersting. I knew about SAE J2807, but didn't know that it accounted for 300lbs in the cab. This makes me feel a lot better about the size TTs that I'm looking at. Thank you for that info.

 

I have looked up that standard. However, the 300 pound passenger allowance and 70 pound hitch allowance is for towing capacity, not payload capacity. I am still limited to the 7000 pound GVWR. The Tundra is a heavy beast. I hope they increase the payload capacity or make a 3/4 ton (wishful thinking ).

 

I bet it was the wheels, tires, running boards, and a few other misc items that were added by the dealer.
Then, I added even heavier tires and wheels, stereo system (including a sub box with 2 12’s and 2 amps), and more.

 

Nice analysis. I'm beginning to get the idea that few actually go to the trouble.

I also think you've just scratched the surface (no weight for food or other gear). Thinking about it makes my head buzz. Guys have bought BIGAZZ travel trailers, then come here to find out how to make it work with their Tundra. Why doesn't Toyota build a freaking towing app under the Owners tab? You enter the data, and the app either tells you "GO/NO GO", or how much tongue weight you can apply. I guess that would hurt sales...or incur liability.

Only thing I can suggest is to figure out your maximum allowed tongue weight, then work backwards with the rental company to figure out the biggest TT you can tow and meet the ratings. You've done your homework on the max tongue weight.

Both trailers are big trailers, but that Shasta is an eye-popper (Is that the right pic? ). Your 200-300 pounds tongue weight for batteries and propane seems high for the Jayco, since it appears to have two 5 gallon cylinders (42.4 pounds propane). Maybe that's a wrong pic too. If the rental company has the batteries mounted in the RVs, buy, rent or borrow (surely they have one on hand?) a tongue scale and actually weigh the tongues. It's a lot of trouble for a rental, but I expect you'll be gathering data for future RV or truck purchases.

Keep in mind that when loading any other gear, you can load in the rear of the trailer behind the axles to reduce the tongue weight. The further back the better, but you'll want to keep tongue weight about 10% of the total trailer weight. If the water tanks are in the rear behind the axles, you may actually be able to reduce the tongue weight further by filling the tanks before you leave...it probably won't help your mileage.

https://www.etrailer.com/s.aspx?qry=tongue+scale

 

I concluded previously that wheel and tire weight is NOT included in the reduction on the sticker. My 2017 has the same 119 pounds...it must be the running boards. Wheels and tires mounted on the truck are unsprung weight, or weight not carried by the truck suspension. Wheel and tire weight should have no effect on payload unless it's carried in the bed.

 

Except your payload isn't just about sprung weight. It's taken from your GVWR and subtracting your actual weigh; unsprung weigh included. The reason is because payload is also calculated/restricted based on how the vehicle will handle and stop, and unsprung weigh DOES matter for that.

 

FWIW I am sitting around a fire right now on our last day of camping with a rented passport ultralight 175bh. Dry weight around 3300 pounds. It fit my family of 4 (wife, 8 and 6 y/o) comfortably with all our gear. It's not huge, but being used to tent camping it feels quite spacious.

On the highway I got an avg 7.8mpg and the truck was cruising along in 4th at about 3000 rpm the whole way. For this reason alone I'd hesitate to go with something larger.

Also, with the state parks we stayed at, I'm not sure I'd want to deal with anything longer than what I rented. Some of the spots were real tight to back into, and another 10 feet doesn't sound like any fun.

TL;DR you might not need a trailer that big.

 

exactly, @AzureNightmare. i was just going to respond with that

here is a quick example:


It may not seem like much, but any extra weight on the truck (sprung or unsprung) reduces your payload.

 

I think your math is good, except you are double counting Your own weight. The weight for a driver at least is assumed when they list payload

 

Maybe you're right. We've had the thread on yellow payload reduction sticker already, and I remember it being inconclusive.

Paying a 1:1 weight penalty for stopping/handling forces seems like overkill to me. An interesting observation: My 2017 2WD DC IS different from @Netmonkey CM, but consider that my GVWG is 6700 lbs (his is 7000 lbs), and my payload is higher at 1435 pounds, not including an (actual) 112 pound reduction penalty. (Head's beginning to buzz again.)

The running boards are apparently only about half the reduction penalty in my truck's case (maybe 55-60 pounds of 112 pounds). Then there's the spray-in bedliner which can be another, say, 40 pounds. Carpet floor mats...20 pounds. Exhaust tips...2 pounds. Forget the TSS bed decals. There's probably some error (over/under) in estimating and round-off. Okay, what weight penalty is left to cover upgrading from standard P255/70R18" wheels/tires, to TSS package 275/55R20" alloy wheels/tires?

I can't see the tires and wheels counting against payload.

 

I do not believe that (and the weight of which driver? some people are heavier than others ). Show me a standard, law, rule, etc.. that states that.

 

Just thought of this. Gvwr has something more to it.

all tundra’s have the exact same springs and frames. So the difference of gvwr between 4.6 models and 5.7 tow package models has to do with transmission/axle strength.

Gear ratios seems to play a role as well, deeper gears in trucks list higher tow ratings for example. Nothing else physically about the truck changes

 

I started doing this math for my truck. I'll obviously have to weigh my truck to get precise numbers but 1270 lbs of payload less ~200 lbs for my canopy less the weight of my family (assuming I keep this truck for 15 years) leaves me with less than 600 lbs for gear and trailer tongue weight. I think I either have to look at very small trailers or sell this truck, get a used GMT-900 2500 or 3500 and keep my Kia as a daily.

 

Payload is GVWR - curb weight.

 

Common consensus on the internet seems to be that curb weight does not include any passengers except in the EU, where it includes a 165 lb driver.

 

Yeah... so, your double cab is lighter than my crew cab which gives you a little bit more payload (even with the reduced GVWR).

The TSS package (just like my Texas edition package) included wheels, tires, running boards, spray in bead liner, floor mats, tail pipes, badging, and bed lights. All that could be an additional ~120 pounds.

 

Overthinking it. Look at your Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. You truck cannot weigh more than this. Go weigh your truck and subtract it's actual weight from that rating. That is how much shit you can put in/on your truck. Period.

 

somewhere ive seen it in a manual ill look for it, however i forgot that you are using gvwr and an actual scale weight of your truck, not their listed payload

 

Every vehicle I have weighed was within a few pounds of listed curb weight. When I moved to California in 2011 I had to get my Colorado weighed for the dmv for some odd reason. It was within 20 pounds of what GM claimed it weighed.

 

My truck weighed 5740 on a scale. All stock with steel rims

 

Curb weight from the factory does not include driver but does include a full fuel tank.

And as said, GVWR minus what your truck weighs on a scale is your payload max at that moment in time.

Remember: this is not a Tundra specific problem. This is an issue with every half ton truck. The more options it has, the worse the problem.

 

Where is the recalculation? J2807 doesn’t change them. It’s only a calculation and standard to define max tow capacity.