Premium gas for 2021 TRD Pro?

I have a 2021 TRD Pro. I typically use 87 octane gas. I’m curious if others use premium gas.

 

Not in my 2020 Pro. Waste of money.

 

I’m thinking of have my Truck “Dap” tuned and came across this on thier Facebook page:


Do Ineed to run Premium Fuel?
As we have reported with every truck we have tested on, 4.6L, 4.7L, 5.7L, all run best on 91+ octane whether they are completely stock with stock tune, or tuned. These engines pull 8-12 degrees of timing due to knock retard on 87 oct, 6-10 deg on 89oct, 2-6 deg on 91oct, and 0-2deg on 93oct. That is on a completely stock truck with factory tune.

If you care about the engine in your $35,000-$65,000 truck as you think you do, you wont run anything but premium in it weather you are tuned or not tuned.

 

Hey, it's your choice. Toyota says 87 is fine and the engines go several hundred thousand miles reliably. You'll always gain more performance with higher octanes.

 

I run nothing but 91 in all my vehicles except my wife's Highlander. If you want the most power in all parts of the powerband without the ECU pulling timing then run 91 or higher. Just because Toyota says it will run fine on 87 doesn't mean it doesn't run better on higher octane fuel. All these folks that say "well, Toyota says 87, why go against the engineers that say that?" don't realize the engineers didn't say that, the bean counters did, nor do they understand how these computer controlled engines really work. Tuners know from real world testing that higher octane fuel is better across the board than the bare minimum. Mfgrs make a lot of "recommendations" based solely on CAFE averages, not on getting peak performance out of their engines. This is the reason NA 5.7s call for 5w20 oil, everywhere else in the world its 5w30. Also, its not a great selling point to "require" premium fuel in a certain market segment. The marketing folks determine that the average premium brand owner won't scoff at an extra $5-10 per fill-up, plus the production numbers are lower than regular brand vehicles, so they are OK with the premium fuel recommendation. For Toyotas the engine runs "good enough" on 87, so that's what they "recommend". Whether its a waste of money is up to the individual owner, but to me, running 87 octane in a TRD Pro is a waste of a TRD Pro. It will run fine on 87, but it will run better on 91, no way around it.

 

your highlander doesn’t deserve 91? Lol

 

No, its just a grocery getter, and my wife usually fills it up and she couldn't give a rat's behind about what gas goes in it.

 

I’ve had my 2020 tundra since May of 2020, got her with 4 miles. Have only put 91

 

So, the ECU knows when the fuel has a higher % of octane and then adjusts ignition timing on its own?
Interesting. And how does it know? Can someone please explain? A special octane sensor? And where is that located?

 

Nope - well not “premium ethanol” at least.

I run rec fuel - 91 ethanol free gas. Partially out of dislike for ethanol boosted octane - mainly out of laziness and the fact it’s not costing me too much more.

I typically keep 50-75 gallons of rec fuel on hand for outdoor equipment - and the drive the Tundra to fill the cans. If I’m getting gas - makes zero sense to pump 50 gallons on one pump - then stop/pay and then move up one pump to the next pump to fill the Tundra up.

I also tend to watch the price of ethanol free at the local station and buy up when it’s “down”. Unlike regular gas (and corresponding plus/ultra variants) that move up and down based on what others are selling for - their pure gas stays at a static price based on what it was when the tank was last filled. So it’s not uncommon for premium ethanol 91 to cost MORE than pure gas (best I’ve ever caught it was 4 cents cheaper than regular 87 - but that was only once).

I also have just under 3k on my 2021 - so not like I’m “losing” a ton overpaying for gas. Figure the slight boost in mpg and lessor wear is worth a little bit. Bottom line though / do what works best for you and YOUR situation = unless you have a turbo/supercharged engine or a real reason to buy something other than 87 (like a vehicle that sits extended periods with little/no use) - just buy 87 for daily driver modern vehicles designed to run it. The savings will just never be topped by maintenance and performance. Say you cut your chance of a minor mechanical failure by 10% - that slight reduction is lost in the added 40-60 cents a gallon expended and premium gas is not a “cure all” - the engine was designed to run 87 normally. Your better off spending $20 on better oil and more frequent fluid changes in my opinion than buying better gas if long term maintenance savings are the concern.

 

Also, does a "TRD pro" have a different 5.7 than a base model? Different fuel mapping, different ignition timing? Higher compression? Interesting. Or does it have a self-tuning fuel system that senses when you put "premium" fuel in and then decides to run better and make more compression?

 

My understanding is the sensors determine this initially and then adjust as needed. Not 100% sure how/what sensors - guessing O2 - but I’m no mechanic/engineer.

As has been explained to me - occasionally running higher octane or running after lower grade doesn’t help. The sensor has automatically adjusted to the 87 running through and won’t “readjust” to the cleaner burning fuel immediately. It would take several hundred tanks before you’d see the difference and given the potential for variable quality of fuel in that time - you may never feel the difference.

Of course there will be a ton of people tell you THEY FEEL higher output/differences when changing between 87/91-93 in their truck and to each their own. A similar percentage of people think the alien overlords are watching up and planning on beaming them up tomorrow. My thought is let them believe what they like - perhaps they are right and I’m wrong and I’m bound to be a slave to our new masters when this happens…but I’ll spend today secure in the belief I’m right and they are nuts.

 

On a 2021 gen 2.5 - nope.

Not an expert all all gens - but the 2.5 is a “trim only” package - no difference in a SR 5.7 engine or a Pro-Platinum 5.7 - same power plant.

 

@RichterScale My understanding from reading post #3 is that the engine responds to knocking which is different on 87 vs 91+, and it adjusts by pulling degrees of timing. It has to adjust more on regular 87. Doesn’t sound like it has (or even needs) an “octane sensor”.

That said, I’ll continue to run 87. It’s a NA v8 capable of multiple hundreds of thousands of miles on 87 gas.

My LX says premium only for the same engine. It also is rated for +2 HP and +2 TQ (383/403) vs my Tundra.

 

Simple fix is to buy a supercharger. Fill with premium.

/thread

 

Here's the thing though: the 5.7 doesn't knock on 87 (the rest of this post is not a direct response to your quote).
-Octane is a molecule that is resistant to detonation due to heat/pressure alone, before the spark is introduced. The higher the % of octane, the more resistant the fuel is to pre detonation (knock).
There are not more BTUs per unit of volume in higher octane fuels, than lower octane. ie; octane has nothing to do with adding power or performance and "premium" is a misnomer. Using higher octane does not make your engine perform better. It's the opposite: you have to have the higher compression engine first,....THEN the higher octane % is required.
The NA 5.7 does not have high enough compression to cause 87 octane to pre-detonate before the spark.
I've been participating in these conversations since I bought a sport bike in 2008 (and I'm sure they've been going on since looong before that) and they seem to be common on truck forums too. I've asked countless times for folks to explain how using higher octane fuel in an engine with 10:1 compression, makes their vehicle perform better. I've yet to get an answer that wasn't a wild guess, at best. I've even had people claim to be professional "fuelologists", or whatever they called themselves, try to explain and their answer was utter nonsense also (probably worked on the sales side and not actual engineers).
That said, I'm not a "fuelologist" either. But I researched how fuel works when I bought my bike in 2008 and honestly, it wasn't all that hard to grasp. So, even though I know this conversation will exist into infinity, I still find myself surprised that people still think/say dumb shit about octane. I mean, everyone has access to the info I looked up in 2008.

 

Was this a direct quote from someone else. The misuse of the word weather in the last sentence sort of knocks the credibility way back for me.

 

I'm retired and no longer have to worry about losing money over a comma. It just made curious if a vendor wrote that.

 

D.A.P. Tune says it does. (That’s where that blurb is copied/pasted from). Whether it is perceptible to each person behind the wheel as they go from regular to premium fuel is subjective. The engine corrects it differently based on octane content. It’s not a problem IMO.

I’m not going to throw out their many years of experience because whoever posted that wrote “weather” instead of “whether”.

I’m also not worried about knocking. Continuing to run 87. I run 87 in my LX which says “premium fuel required”. It’s the exact same engine. The Lexus 5.7 is rated for a whole +2 HP/TQ. Guess I’m leaving all that extra power on the table. Lol.

 

There are lots of threads on this.

There IS a difference in power with higher octane. If you drive the same hills all the time, you'll notice it stays in lower RPM longer with higher octane. A master mechanic explained this to me once, and I don't know enough to understand it or regurgitate it.

If you're looking for better MPG, depending on how you drive will determine whether you'll get it with higher octane or not.

You will likely notice if you regularly drive approaching payload or tow.

 

What kind of fuel you use is a lifestyle choice and should be based on what makes you feel good. People shouldn't be so judgy and controlling and tell people what to do.

 

With nearly 20,000 miles on mine and I've yet to use all the available power of my 5.7. To me using premium fuel seems like a wasteful expense. If I thought the engine controls retarded timing in a delayed reactive way I would consider it. My little boosted 124 requires 91 octane and that's the minimum octane I feed it. I drive that car balls to the wall.

 

All kidding aside, I have to wonder if any feeling of the truck running better, having a little more power (whatever the case) has anything to do with ethanol content, or lack thereof, in higher octane fuels. Also, how much that may vary in different regions.

 

My understanding is ethanol is an octane booster.

Certainly has an affect on things.

I run premium in my FFV. Unfortunately corn is gas here in AZ, premium or not.

 

Bastards!!

 

I love these discussions.

 

If I use premium gas, does that mean I can change my oil every 10k miles instead?

 

Only if you have a transmission cooler and tow hook. Red tow hooks

 

You'll get more chicks

 

I don't know how my wife would feel about that... I better stick to regular.