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Payload and towing

Discussion in 'Towing & Hauling' started by Doghauler2014, Jan 20, 2019.

  1. Jan 20, 2019 at 12:02 AM
    #1
    Doghauler2014

    Doghauler2014 [OP] New Member

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    Hi I am new to this forum and would like to address my question to anybody who is towing a travel trailer with a UVW 7324 and a GVWR OF 8995 or more. I noticed someone is towing a Grand Design Reflection. We have a deposit on a Grand Design 2970RL Imagine which approximates your Reflection. I am leery of our 2014 Toyota Tundra Platinum being able to tow it long distances. It's towing capacity is 9500# I don't want to purchase a trailer my husband can't tow safely. We pick it up the end of the month if we buy it. WDH E-4 4PT anti-sway and P3 brake controller will be installed. Husband also will upgrade shocks and tires. I would appreciate any advice and that Reflection owner experiences would be warmly welcomed!
    Oh the payload is 1305 Hitch 900 front 4000 rear 4150. Hitch wt of trailer 795. just me hubby and 3 small dogs and stuff in truck. Thanks
     
  2. Jan 20, 2019 at 12:55 AM
    #2
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    Welcome to the site.

    First, you need to see what the capacity of your truck is. This is on the inside of the drivers door. If there's a yellow sticker stating reduced weight due to options, then subtract that from your capacity. Most likely with a Platinum trim, you will have reduced capacity.

    This is a numbers game, and can be a little confusing at times.

    What we know:

    14 Tundra, unknown configuration.
    https://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/2014+toyota+tundra+specs.download

    What we do know is you most likely have a maximum hitch weight of 980 lbs, and payload of 1325-1500 lbs if you have a Double Cab truck. Hitch weight will most likely be ok, but capacity will most likely be over.

    Travel trailer:

    795 lbs hitch weight empty
    7295 lbs empty trailer weight
    8995 lbs GTWR.


    This pretty much tells me the hitch weight is ~10.5% of the total trailers weight. Pretty normal for travel trailers.

    Now start adding up what you might take with you at all times:

    Cooking set/dishes, etc
    Clothing
    Food
    Bedding
    Heaters
    Chairs
    Hoses
    Propane tank(s)
    Dog supplies

    In my own personal experiences, having 500-700 lbs in supplies isn’t hard to have.

    Will you always travel with or without water? This adds a lot of weight, but at times is necessary.

    So far, let’s add some stuff up.

    7295+500 supplies=7795

    7795x10.5%=818 lbs. tongue weight. Still good.

    Now this is where the number on the door is so important. Let’s pretend it’s 1400 lbs.

    1400-818=582 lbs of capacity left.

    Now take everything in the cab, including your dogs, both your weight and subtract that from the leftover capacity. If all that adds up under 582 lb, you are golden.
     
  3. Jan 20, 2019 at 1:39 AM
    #3
    Doghauler2014

    Doghauler2014 [OP] New Member

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    Thanks for your response Colorado. I am in Ohio and I am losing sleep over this trailer! The sticker reads the combined occupants and cargo should not exceed 1305# the towing capacity is 9500# Would a propride 3p sway control help with handling issues on a 34' trailer? I see pics of people posting with large heavy trailers (would like to talk to the one that has the Grand Design Reflection) that say their Tundras tow without any issues. Travelling with dogs means pottybreaks so our tanks would not be full.
     
  4. Jan 20, 2019 at 3:44 AM
    #4
    Lake.Life24

    Lake.Life24 New Member

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    the tundra can handle a lot but the max tow rating is really designed around the trucks ability to stop the load. The truck can tow way more than 9500lbs but controlling that to a complete stop is where things can get dangerous. I would try to stick to a travel trailer in that 8500 loaded range. That gives you 1000lbs to play with in the truck. Or this could be a good time to look at 3/4 ton trucks if your lifestyle requires a bigger trailer.

    Now getting that out of the way! If I was going to buy the trailer and just had a tundra, I would get load range E tires, weight distributing hitch, a heavy duty leaf pack and probably Firestone airbags or timbrens to help with leveling out squat.
     
  5. Jan 20, 2019 at 5:29 AM
    #5
    johnxmccoy

    johnxmccoy New Member

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    Get a 3/4 ton Chevy or Ford. WDH distributes the load to each axle and really has no effect on the payload. Also the tongue weight is usually heavier than the 10% theory. I have used a scale on our TT and it is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
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  6. Jan 20, 2019 at 5:41 AM
    #6
    OBXTundra

    OBXTundra Member

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    My toyhauler was anywhere between 8k-9k loaded. I didn't enjoy taking long trips with that weight. The truck could do it, but didn't like it.

    Toyhauler is gone and my new camper is under 6500 loaded. The truck and I feel much better.

    You need a bigger truck.
     
  7. Jan 20, 2019 at 6:12 AM
    #7
    jeremyd

    jeremyd 2014 Crewmax SR5

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    When pulling big trailers, plan to have sweat on your forehead ! Lol, I'm serious..
     
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  8. Jan 20, 2019 at 6:35 AM
    #8
    Stroke250

    Stroke250 New Member

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    As a general statement, if you want a large(or larger) travel trailer, buy a 3/4 or 1 to to pull it.
    It seems people want to play this game on whether they can squeeze the trailer and weights within the trucks limits but that’s risky. It’s one thing to be able to tow that weight but it’s another to tow it safely and stop it safely.
     
  9. Jan 20, 2019 at 6:50 AM
    #9
    classic17

    classic17 New Member

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    There is an old saying..."You can have too much trailer for the truck, but you can never have too much truck for the trailer."

    We have a 22' TT. It's just me, my wife and the dog. The unloaded trailer weight is 3650. The factory trailer brake system works great on our trailer. I'm always in Tow/Haul mode (Beast mode as they like to call it on here) when towing and at times I can't even tell the trailer is back there. It's easy to maneuver into a campsite and we can camp in most any National Park campsite (the sites tend to be short where we like to go). We are outside most of times when we are camping, so a smaller trailer was the right decision for us.
     
  10. Jan 20, 2019 at 7:41 AM
    #10
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    With that information, you would have 487 lbs of spare capacity before adding your weight and anything else inside. Average man is probably 190 lbs, I’m going to usr 135 lbs for your weight. Most good Load Distirbution Hitches are 75 lbs. That leaves you 87 lbs to put anything else inside or in the bed or add better tires at 20 lbs extra each. How much do the dogs weigh again? Just kidding. You get what I’m saying. When one has to wonder how much the registration paper in the glove box weighs, time to sit back and consider what’s going on.

    The Tundra is a do-it-all half ton truck. I think some forget it’s a 1/2 ton truck because of how well it does.

    Funny, the other night I had the pleasure to meet another great Tundras.com member. When they drove off my wife looked at that Cement colored Pro and said “damn I miss our Tundra” and walked inside. There’s a reason I didn’t go out and crawl all over that Tundra.

    In my humble opinion, I would look at purchasing a smaller camper, and I will tell you the “why”:

    -34’ is a lot of camper behind you. Wind resistance and load shifting due to passing vehicles (mainly tractor/trailer setups).

    -The truck/travel trailer will be maxing out the Tundra GVWR, close to maxing our the maximum hitch weight rating, and the GTWR.

    -As mentioned in other posts, control and braking are serious considerations with loads like this. Not being able to stop your load can be and often is devastating.

    -I have never been to the great state of Ohio. The most I know about that state is we have awesome members located there. So I don’t know the terrain, or if you ever plan on venturing outside your state. Some of my toughest towing has been in these states:
    North/South Dakota, Eastern Montana/Wyoming, southern New Mexico, and Texas. Most of these states in these locations have relatively flat areas but also have wind.

    -comfort level and experience. We all have heard the “my truck pulls that weight no problem” or “I don’t have a problem towing XxX amount of weight every day”...etc.
    I always think in my head “wonder what the comparison vehicle is?”

    My last point will be, it’s awesome that the research is being done before the camper is even in the driveway. Most people just buy the camper and find out the hard way a new, much more expensive and bigger truck is needed. I was one of those dumbasses. Don’t be me.

    https://www.tundras.com/media/albums/tundra.712/

    Mine is a Keystone Outback 280RS, if you wanna comparison camper. I also live in CO, and tow in some of the more “interesting” conditions here and in northern NM, UT, MT, and WY.
     
  11. Jan 20, 2019 at 7:51 AM
    #11
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    A 1 ton doesn’t gain you that much hitch weight. My 1ton is 1500 lbs hitch weight with a LDH. Where you gain on these bigger trucks is capacity for 5th wheel/gooseneck trailers. I can put 3808 lbs for pin weight. The other day I was towing my camper around in the snow and decided to not use my LDH due to needing maximum traction on my rear axle to get out of the winter wonderland that is now my driveway.
     
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  12. Jan 20, 2019 at 7:53 AM
    #12
    Stroke250

    Stroke250 New Member

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    @ColoradoTJ I couldn’t agree more with “wonder what the comparison vehicle is?”

    I loved my Tundra in many ways but I did not like it towing even light weight. Most of that has to with me owning 3/4 ton diesels the past 15 years.

    It’s all about perspective when it comes to someone saying this tows this weight great or without issue. But I would be willing to bet once someone hooked their trailer behind a 3/4 ton, they would probably have a whole new view on things.

    This is by no means knocking anyone towing with their Tundra, just a different perspective and one to consider when wanting to venture into larger trailers that push the limits of the truck being used.
     
  13. Jan 20, 2019 at 7:57 AM
    #13
    JoshuaA

    JoshuaA Canuck Member

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    I looked it up, nice trailer:

    Screen Shot 2019-01-20 at 10.12.40 AM.jpg

    When you add exterior battery, tanks and any storage in the front, the hitch weight will increase. Pack interior stuff over the trailer's axle if you can.

    You could tow it with your Tundra, but it'll be a very cautious ride, you might feel some sway over 60mph (I like to travel between transport trucks at the same speed). And you'll really need to anticipate your stops, leave plenty of distance. Make sure your brakes are good, if you need them done, get good pads and slotted rotors designed for towing. Sync your brake controller properly down the street a few times before you start your trip.

    What you'll find is it's not the shocks, the back end will squat with that much hitch weight on the leaf springs. I'm using Blue Ox WDH, it was still squatting and importantly an uncomfortable bounce over bumps. If the front end of your truck pops up, it can feel like you briefly lose some steering/braking control. So I added Timbrens and I'm basically riding on them. When not towing I remove them. If you tow often, Firestone Air Bags on all the time might be your best bet. For lighter trailers, you would not be doing both, only a WDH.

    The Blue Ox WDH mitigates swaying, and I also added a TRD sway bar, whether you tow or not, you'll appreciate the improved reduction in body roll on turns in day to day driving. Both of those help with highway sway when towing.

    Or, just get a 3/4 ton or full ton pickup. They're a hard ride when not towing but they're solid if you start approaching the upper limits of 1/2 ton.

    I should add that if you're not parking on flat lots, get Andersen Levellers, so easy to use:



    And X-chocks of some sort. It locks down the wheels and removes the shake as you walk about in your trailer despite having your trailer jacks down. Keep in mind those jacks are not for levelling, they're for mild weight support, stop as soon as they touch the ground.



    If you don't have towing mirrors, those help too. Lots of fun add-ons, I think there's a thread here, stuff like a cutting board that goes over your stove and increases counter space, etc.

    Happy RV'ing!
     
  14. Jan 20, 2019 at 7:58 AM
    #14
    Adriver71x

    Adriver71x New Member

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    Welcome from Northeast Connecticut.
     
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  15. Jan 20, 2019 at 6:31 PM
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    TRD Sport Dave

    TRD Sport Dave New Member

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    I asked the following in a previous post but didn't get much feedback, I'm also new to this forum..

    If you were to chose between purchasing a travel trailer with a light tongue weight (500lb) but heavy on weight (7k dry / 9k gross) - OR - a travel trailer with heavy tongue weight (800lb) but "ok" on weight (6k lb) Which way you would go?

    In case #1 I would love to have plenty of payload but I don't know how will I feel pulling such a heavy monster (15klb weight combined)

    In case #2 payload won't let me take my dogs to camping =( but will feel relief pulling 6klb as I have pulled this weight before

    Screenshot_2019-01-20-22-06-49-1.jpg
     
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  16. Jan 20, 2019 at 6:37 PM
    #16
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    I’ll respond after a bit.
     
  17. Jan 20, 2019 at 6:38 PM
    #17
    jeremyd

    jeremyd 2014 Crewmax SR5

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    I can't answer your question but this is how I avoid all the numbers.
    IMG_20150608_082634 - Copy (2)hh.jpg
     
  18. Jan 20, 2019 at 6:41 PM
    #18
    Y0TA PR0

    Y0TA PR0 Dirt biking & fishing

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    That’s a nice trailer! Can you even feel it back there lol.
     
  19. Jan 20, 2019 at 6:49 PM
    #19
    jeremyd

    jeremyd 2014 Crewmax SR5

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    Does anyone know if they sell an electrically operated dump valve ??? I'm on the move often... just kidding !!
     
  20. Jan 20, 2019 at 7:06 PM
    #20
    Alloutdrs1

    Alloutdrs1 New Member

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    Op with that camper your going to have a lot of tail wagging the dog and your going to be fatigued by the time you get to where your going. Its either a bigger truck or downsize on the camper to something more in the range of the Tundra pulling it safely.
     
  21. Jan 20, 2019 at 7:40 PM
    #21
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    Your first option would tow like crap at higher speeds. The camper empty is around 7% tongue weight. When not having enough TW, the sway can get pretty nasty and unrecoverable....fast.

    Option two would be the way I would go. We would put the dogs in the camper all the time, but we have a toy hauler and they had a bay to themselves, dog beds, and loved the extra room.
     
  22. Jan 20, 2019 at 7:42 PM
    #22
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    Personally, I would be looking at keeping the trailer length under 24' and under 6000k lbs empty.
     
  23. Jan 20, 2019 at 7:50 PM
    #23
    TRD Sport Dave

    TRD Sport Dave New Member

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    Awesome, Thank you! I appreciate straight answer like that. A "good tongue weight" is about 10% or above off the trailer weight then? And Does my 14k lb Weight Distribution Hitch and sway system help in my first option at all?
     
  24. Jan 20, 2019 at 7:52 PM
    #24
    Crunch527

    Crunch527 Brute Force and Ignorance

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    The towing experience in a Tundra with the weights you are describing is nerve-wracking. Towing safely is about having margin.

    Either get a smaller (lighter) trailer 6500 or less, or get a 3/4 to 1 ton truck.

    Like someone said...you can never have too much truck.
     
  25. Jan 20, 2019 at 8:26 PM
    #25
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    No, a WDH will not help you with the low TW of the first option. It will help with sway (of course), but there are other factors with this issue.
    -More sway costs you big time at the pump. We already know the Tundra gets awesome fuel economy as it is...
    -More sway wears out tires. My last 5000 mile vacation with the TH, we were in some of the worst wind I have ever towed in. Totally wiped my rear axle tires from all the sway.
     
  26. Jan 20, 2019 at 8:45 PM
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    TRD Sport Dave

    TRD Sport Dave New Member

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    Holy crap! A lot factors to take into count. And yeah Tundra's mpg is awesome (this does not damage the awesome truck Tundra is) but deep inside all of us would like to see the gas gauge stay up for a bit more time.

    Even though TundraDude34 says in his youtube channel the next Tundra will give us up to 30mpg due to a new hibrid electric engine (Toyota will never play the ecoboost game)

    So what I've learned today is:

    -You can max your payload as long is within numbers AND to have a comfortable towing experience to camping you need to tow a 6,500 lb camper or less. AM I RIGHT?
     
  27. Jan 20, 2019 at 10:07 PM
    #27
    kparrow

    kparrow New Member

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    I’ve heard nothing but great things about the ProPride and I plan on getting for any conventional trailer I have in the future(were saving up for a TT). Can’t put a price on the safety of my family, may as well have the best hitch. With that said...IMO that trailer is at minimum 2500/F250 territory. Towing at MAX numbers or over will not only be unsafe, but the trip will be difficult at times when it doesn’t have to be. I’d say pick a smaller or a lighter trailer.....or get a bigger truck. If keeping the Tundra and regularly towing a heavy trailer, even with the pro-pride id look at getting the rear sway bar and putting on air bags, along with E rated tires.

    Also on any trailer I wouldn’t trust the sticker numbers. Take it to a CAT scale / a tougue weight scale, and verify the sticker numbers and know the actual weights both unloaded total and hitch tounge weight
     
  28. Jan 20, 2019 at 10:28 PM
    #28
    kparrow

    kparrow New Member

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    Here’s a couple that look better towing for a Tundra IMO, but all of this is just opinions. Go with what you both like. I’d also ask the question if it’s just the two of you...do you NEED a 34’ trailer. Some really nice floor plans from Imagine line are MUCH less weight and seem to be perfectly setup for 2 people + pets.

    https://www.granddesignrv.com/showroom/2019/travel-trailer/imagine/floorplans/2250rk

    https://www.granddesignrv.com/showroom/2019/travel-trailer/imagine/floorplans/2600rb


    https://www.granddesignrv.com/showroom/2019/travel-trailer/imagine-xls/floorplans/22rbe

    and this one would be “better” but still pushing I’d say.

    https://www.granddesignrv.com/showroom/2019/travel-trailer/imagine/floorplans/2670mk
     
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  29. Jan 20, 2019 at 11:05 PM
    #29
    Doghauler2014

    Doghauler2014 [OP] New Member

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    Thanks for all your inputs Hubby is claustraphobic wants room to relax. We saw the 2970rl at a RV show that had all the features we wanted to go glamping and got a good deal. We are getting the TT primarily as place to stay in FL with our dogs. to visit family and of course to travel.
     
  30. Jan 20, 2019 at 11:14 PM
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    ColoradoTJ

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    Vehicle:
    LML 3500HD
    Calibrated Power 5 Tune pack, Allison 1000 tune, PPE deep trans pan, Cold/Hot CAC pipes, Banks CAI, PCV reroute, resonator delete, S&B 62 gal fuel tank, B&W GN hitch
    Enjoy your new truck....hopefully.
     
    Notachickmagnet likes this.

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