Noob on, 14WA Big Brake Conversion

Hey folks, I'm new to the Tundra life and am interested in fixing the Achilles heel of this fantastic truck. I have read several forums about the, "big brake" upgrade and I am going to attempt this upgrade and do my best to document the experience.

My son has shown interest in videoing the whole thing and putting it up on YouTube, so we will see how that goes.

I currently have an 05 Tundra SR5 DC 2WD. As it drives now, there is a slight shudder under mild braking. It also has what I can only describe as a grabby feel. It is difficult to apply steady braking as when it grabs, it can be abrupt. I know there is work that needs to be done, so rather than re-do what is commonly regarded as the weak link in this vehicle, I have opted to try out a larger 14WA setup.

I have purchased a set of used calipers from eBay. The ones I bought came from a parted out 2013 4 Runner with approximately 130,000 mi. I paid a little over $200 after shipping for the set.

I reached out to a local machine shop about the 5/32, (or 3.5mm) shave that will need to be done for a bolt on fit. They said they would shave both for $60. While I'm waiting on the calipers, I will be shopping around for stainless steel brake lines, rotors and pads.

I would also like to mention that I am not a mechanic, and only know what I know through reading forums and watching YouTube videos. Most if not all the work to be done will be done by whoever I can pay/bribe into helping me as I am on a budget.

If anyone has advice or would like to follow along with my journey, I would really appreciate it.

Let the fun begin!

 

There's a thread for that, found it using Search for you. https://www.tundras.com/threads/2000-2006-tundra-big-brake-upgrade-kit-14wa-calipers.61231/

One of our members trusted a local machine shop to modify his, they did it wrong, and after spending hundreds throwing almost everything known to man at the issue, he came to the realization the problem was just that - machine shop effed up, and now he's out $600 with no recourse.

Best bet - although it's too late for you, it sounds - is to go to a known entity to machine the calipers - someone that's done the task before. I'm pretty sure his info is in that thread I linked.

Good luck.

(PS - do you have the 2-pc master cylinder with "unicorn" part?)

 

You tell me. I'm very new at this. Here are some pics.

 

Nope. This is what I'm talking about, the really silver part bolted between the MC+reservoir and booster in this pic: https://www.tundras.com/threads/im-at-my-wits-end-master-cylinder-issues.39933/page-7#post-2781745

FYI, on your setup, the little silver cylinder next to the master with a yellow sticker on top is the booster, in case you were wondering where the booster is.

Other trucks have a big dish-shaped black booster along the firewall. I'm assuming you have VSC on your truck. I feel like I've seen others with your setup, like @Grumpy74, also complain about performance. My brakes are great. I have a totally different MC/booster setup.

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You'll want to check actual center for machining with your rotors and calipers on truck without pads. Mine needed less than 3mm iirc.

 

This is very helpful information. Should I take this conversation over to the thread you provided? Also, is there a way for me to delete this thread? I'm sorry, like I said, I'm a noob.

 

So, I'm gathering that there are differences in cutting depth. I have read in the other 14WA thread, one person said, "3mm is the sweet spot" and and the same person said later in the same thread 3.5, and I saw a YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvP4dWfymGc&t=672s where Evergreen Overland said he had his cut at 5/32, (which converts to 4.064mm). There is obviously a wide difference on what I thought was a standardized part.

How do I determine the proper cut depth on the specific calipers I bought? I just want to be sure I properly measure twice and cut once! I feel it will be beneficial for many to know including myself.

 

If I were to measure that I woul shim the rotor out till it centers in the new caliper (all mounted up) then measure w/e shims that it took to center it. Then mill that amount off the ears


Probably the hard way to do it, but it’s how I’d do it with what I have laying around


I cheated and bought a used TRD big brake kit

 

Anything you can do to keep information centralized so it's not necessary to link several threads when people come looking for stuff in the future is always a plus. And if you ever want to hang around, but change your username, it's possible. @GODZILLA has done it once or twice now and can probably explain how.

 

User names can only be changed by @Bob so you just shoot him a PM with the request and be patient.

 

This sounds like you have rotors with brake pad material that's been transferred to the rotors (what alot of people mistakenly call warped rotors). It causes a shudder under light braking but as the vehicle slows it gets more abrupt. I suspect machined (or new) rotors and new pads would clear that up. These trucks seem to be particularly susceptible to this problem, though I think it also has to do with braking style and why some people have more problems with them than others. I have not done the WA upgrade yet, but I suspect the people who had problems with their Tundra's "warping" rotors will still have that problem. Since machining rotors and new pads is relatively cheap, you might try that first before the caliper/rotor/pad upgrade to get a real comparison between the two setups. Be prepared that successfully bleeding the brakes on these trucks seems to be very hit and miss. Some have no problem...others can't even get them bled correctly from repair shops.

You have VSC...which is good and bad. Good in that when it's working it's good at what it does for an early electronic system...but bad in that if it ever needs to be replaced...it's expensive.

 

Purchased used 14WA on eBay for $191.00 or $206.28 after shipping.

 

That seems like a lot of money to me for old calipers. Hopefully you have better luck with this than I did.

 

I think this is somewhat related so I will ask without starting a new thread. Also, if you do the 14WA upgrade it might be worth looking into.
Has anyone looked at the upgraded MC on SOS performance? https://sosperformance.com/products...er-installation-kit-fits-rear-disc-conversion
I'm curious on the details, and whether it's oem or an acceptable aftermarket?

 

Kimosabe, I have read that there are at least two types of MCs out there. I would like to know if one can be changed to another? is one better than another? what are the advantages of upgrading if possible? What are some of the hurdles or problems that could arise from buying this specific MC you linked?

What MC do you have on your truck? If you include a picture of what you have, it might help determine what might work. I don't know what mine is called, other than not the unicorn.

 

I think only some types can be swapped over. I have the same type that @shifty` posted above with the big black drum booster. I’m not an expert, but I think some MCs can be swapped pretty easily. I’ve read on here that some who have upgraded to the 14wa have a softer pedal feel or more pedal travel after the swap. The upgraded MC pushes more brake fluid and gives back a firmer pedal.
I’m not familiar with the MC that I posted. That was my question to the group. There’s a thread where someone details the MC installation with good results. I’d link it, but I’m on my phone which makes it tough.

 

After @FirstGenVol's adventure in throwing $1k+ down the toilet because his calipers weren't machined correctly, I wonder how many of those mushy-pedal folks are actually just cases of 'calipers weren't machined right'?

If I were doing this swap, I'd absolutely use the guy everyone who had a successful swap seemed to use. He knows what he's doing. That's a feckload of extra money to throw at it, though, when you consider the Stoptech stuff is made for improved braking, and is absolutely plug-and-play with no major risks.

 

I have the MC you linked, but I don't have 14WA calipers -- only rear discs. This MC is not compatible with the brake booster that OP has.

I'm also curious on how the MC you linked works with the 14WAs, but that's a whole 'nother subject and not necessarily helpful for OP

 

I'm hoping the larger reservoir translates to less brake travel. I had the same thought about the milling depth having a correlation with conversion results. I will seek more information on both of these topics.

 

Hoping for someone to educate me but I think I read somewhere the upgrade is for the extra heat dissipation of the larger rotors, and not for a larger contact patch/more braking?
I came across a thread on this site that had pictures comparing contact surface area on the pads-to-rotors between stock and post-upgrade. Searched for a while and I can't seem to find it right now.

That being said I've swapped to a PowerStop Z36 kit and have noticed improvement, many others say the same. Could be easier if the 14WA swap doesn't work out.

 

Do you notice a difference in pedal feel and travel? And did you swap both at the same time, or did you try the MC before the rear disc conversion?
I’m interested in the MC itself too. Is it good quality, and can you tell who makes it?

 

That’s interesting. I wouldn’t think that the machining would have to do with the soft pedal. I guess I could see the caliper needing to push the pads further to make contact with the disk but hadn’t thought about that. now you got me wondering about anyone with softer pedal or further travel after using the OG that you referenced.

 

oh wait, i didnt realize he had poorly machined calipers.. that sucks

 

He'll need to comment on it, but I think he said he noticed one pad was making contact sooner, and maybe not fully square on the caliper? But maybe I'm nuts. @FirstGenVol what was it that helped you come to the realization it was the calipers?

 

I was getting a metal on metal sounding rattle when I went over bumps. If I went over those same bumps and hit the brakes the noise would immediately stop. This got me thinking something was wrong with the calipers. This and process of elimination. I tried literally everything else I could to fix the mushy pedal and nothing worked.

As soon as I removed the calipers and installed 13WL's(stock size starting in 2003), my mushy pedal went away.

The key to the 14WA calipers is having someone machine them that knows what they are doing. I recommend buying them from Geoff Beers. He's done hundreds by now.

 

Today I took the calipers to the machine shop to be milled. After copious amounts of reading I fell on taking just shy of 3mm off the, "ears". A local mechanic said he would be glad to put on the new equipment, which is a good thing considering it took me 3 different places to find someone who would do it. The first two said, "it would be too much of a liability". I'm now ordering the rotors. I will do a bit of research to decide what to get. I think I am going to go with a standard, (not slotted) rotor. I'll update when decision is made.

 

The other shops were smart, they've be liable in multiple ways: It's not an easy mill job. If they mill wrong, they're potentially financially liable for damaging your part. If you die due to brake failure or function, they're criminally liable.

With the issues @FirstGenVol had letting a local shop mill his, and having to throw away all that $$ in brand new calipers because they were milled wrong, I'm shocked you're letting a shop that's never done this before touch yours, especially when there's a known-resource to manage it, you just gotta pay shipping and milling.

 

When I get them back, I will check with someone who has done this before to see if it seems correct. If it seems fishy, I'll throw these out and try again. The milling send straightforward to me. Is there something I'm missing? From what I have read, it's a flat mill of approximately 3mm. Unless there is an angle involved, or something I'm not not privy to, it should be okay. Wish me luck.

 

Good Qs. It sounds like wFGV's it was a matter of not milling flat, or not milling enough, so the caliper wouldn't sit square over the rotor. End result was mushy brakes. But once it's milled, it's milled, you're stuck with what you get, straight or not. Unless you own the shop, and can fine-tune what you're taking off ...

 

I'm staying the milling at 3mm. I have heard all kinds of numbers, from less than 3 upward to just over 5. The most success stories I have heard are between 3 and 3.5. if 3 isn't enough, I'll move to 3.5 etc.

You can always cut more off, but you can't cut more on.