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Lost Hunting Grounds

Discussion in 'Guns & Hunting' started by Rgross2112, Jul 10, 2021.

  1. Jul 10, 2021 at 5:42 PM
    #1
    Rgross2112

    Rgross2112 [OP] ASCM #5: Just like Sick and Disgusting

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    Monday 7/12 is the date to mail in for additional deer tags in Pa. Contacted my farm near Gettysburg Pa to see if I can get approval to hunt again this year, 20+ years and no response. Decided to keeping it all within the family and I’m not blood relative, I understand but this sucks, even though I always gave back with a basket of cheese, deer bologna and crackers as a thank you and I always respected the land, but I guess my luck has run out. Just bummed :(
     
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  2. Jul 10, 2021 at 5:48 PM
    #2
    Barrett50

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    That sucks. Can relate unfortunately. Around here the younger gen coming up doesn’t have the same mentality as the older folks that understood and were gracious as long as you showed respect. There’s also too many people that don’t show respect and ruin it for the good ones. I could go on and on. Lost an amazing duck spot just as the boys were getting old enough. Just 2 freakin miles from my house too.
     
  3. Jul 10, 2021 at 5:51 PM
    #3
    MDJK

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    I’ve found it harder and harder as the years have gone to find local private hunting properties that aren’t stupid expensive.
     
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  4. Jul 10, 2021 at 5:51 PM
    #4
    TunsofFon

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    Bummer. I spent a part of my youth hunting and trapping Amish farms in Lancaster. Out here in the west it seems much more difficult to gain access to private land. That being said, there is more state and fed "public" lands which present their unique challenges. Hope you can find some new grounds quick.
     
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  5. Jul 10, 2021 at 6:06 PM
    #5
    Rgross2112

    Rgross2112 [OP] ASCM #5: Just like Sick and Disgusting

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    Tell me about it. I remember when Pa had pheasants back in the 70’s and all it took was to ask a neighboring farm if it could be ok to hunt on the land. I was raised with showing respect and leave the land better than what you found it but now days people are not so willing to share.
     
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  6. Jul 10, 2021 at 6:08 PM
    #6
    Rgross2112

    Rgross2112 [OP] ASCM #5: Just like Sick and Disgusting

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    Thanks! Last time I hunted on public land here in Pa I felt like I was putting my life at risk. Had to duck for cover during rifle season. Crazy. Lancaster county is still the hot spot though
     
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  7. Jul 10, 2021 at 7:14 PM
    #7
    ColoradoTJ

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    I had the same kind of experience. I hunted 10k acres in Montana from a kid to 19. Some of the best hunting/memories a guy could ever want. This was my Uncles land. Dad and I would take a couple weeks per year.

    After leaving for the military, I stopped hunting deer/elk.

    I never went back to Montana to live and decided Colorado would be home. I attempted to get back into hunting for three years and it just wasn’t the same. Either land owners wanted 1500.00 to hunt the land or public land was nothing but orange once the sun came out. I would spend 3-500.00 per year on hunting and come back empty. I started putting that money into cattle and they called me when my 1/4 or 1/2 beef was done and ready to pick up.

    Now I’m going to play devils advocate and speak from the landowners side of things. My uncle ran cattle and farmed. Every year he lost more “slow moving elk” aka cows due to out of state hunters than he ever did from grizzly bears/wolves/mountain lions. Fences left open, fences cut, people trespassing, mistaking cows for elk, and poaching. The poachers were always the biggest threat. They would shoot at you due to the consequences.

    Now when cattle get out this is a very big liability. Country folk haul ass on these dirt roads in cowboy caddies. It’s not hard to lose and cow and have to pay for a vehicle (if your lucky that’s all it is).

    When my uncle would let people come on his land, something almost always happened that they would need assistance. He just said no to strangers by the time I turned 12.

    It’s weird to me now. Growing up neighbors helped one another. We knew our local Wildlife Officers and Game Wardens and they were awesome. If there were struggling families or elderly that needed meat they would ask us to hunt for them. Totally illegal, but it was fun and for a good cause. We would go harvest a pre determined amount of animals and go hang them up where the families needed them. That was taking care of your neighbor without being to intrusive.

    Now days…not sure what is going on.
     
  8. Jul 10, 2021 at 8:08 PM
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    Rgross2112

    Rgross2112 [OP] ASCM #5: Just like Sick and Disgusting

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    Thanks for sharing this. I get and respect the land owners decision. Over the years I left big bucks pass by my stand in hopes that the landowner and their family had a chance to get a nice deer. I was out there for the purpose of just being in nature. My father passed away in 2007 but I always to take his 30-06 out with me and feel it’s a part of him still going out hunting. I guess I could still make new memories hunting in other places, it’s just a shame we couldn’t get back to a time when people respected others and have trust in others to do the right thing.
     
  9. Jul 10, 2021 at 9:14 PM
    #9
    Shark Bait

    Shark Bait Not new anymore

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    I have acreage in WV that I live on. I would occasionally let some folks hunt on it. I had one stipulation, we had a buck that we raised (We don’t hunt, we feed deer every evening off of our back porch) that I said to leave alone. He was was different as one of his tines grew to the rear while all of the others grew forward, very unique and noticeable. One guy took him anyway, he said even though he knew he shouldn’t, that it was just too cool and different of a trophy for him to pass up. That’s when I stopped letting folks in. Too many have forgotten what respect is.
     
  10. Jul 10, 2021 at 9:30 PM
    #10
    Coal Dragger

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    I have given up hunting pretty much. As you point out public ground in the west is over hunted, and over grazed by ranchers. I’m not willing to pay to hunt private ground, so that’s that.

    Hunting is a dying pursuit and lack of opportunities is a big driver of that. It’s becoming a hobby for wealthy people and large land owners.

    Were I in charge of things I would take away all land owner tags for big game, and depredation payments unless land owners allowed walk in hunting. If they charged a trespass fee to hunt animals that belong to the state they should no longer qualify for agricultural property tax rates or any other subsidies from the state.
     
  11. Jul 10, 2021 at 10:22 PM
    #11
    JeffMac

    JeffMac 2 Words, 1 Finger

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    That sucks to hear. I also need to find new hunting areas in my town. New houses being built everywhere completely changing all the deer runs that funneled right into friends farms and untouched public land.
     
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  12. Jul 10, 2021 at 11:26 PM
    #12
    RLHULK

    RLHULK Too many gamma rays in all that BBQ smoke.

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    Same story here in okie land.

    Not the same as it was in 1979 when we moved here. These days its 99% always a no.

    I am lucky in that I can hunt a lot of land about an hours and half drive from me, or public land about an hours each way. But in all honesty I have pretty much gave up hunting and fishing, lost interest in it. I may go out once or twice a year, but nothing like I did when I was younger and there was more access to land.
     
  13. Jul 11, 2021 at 2:14 AM
    #13
    woods

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    I'm a rural land owner, about 100 acres and surrounded by neighbors with even bigger plots and state land. I also am lucky enough to be near the boarder of 2 other states, so we get hunters from all over. 95% are trespassing assholes who will lie and say anything to get on your land.

    The best is the old guys who tell you they have the right to hunt your land and to leave them alone. Oh, did you pay some of my taxes this year? Were you over helping me shovel in the winter or clear my trails in the spring? No? You just were old and thought you can do whatever you want and fuck the youth because that's how you've lived your entire life? Well I don't want your debt, or your bad eyes shooting my neighbors (this is a thing thats happened) so keep it moving.

    I had one guy tell me hes been in town for 40 years and knows everyone and I need to let him peak at my brook for fish. Okay, well then go to my neighbor whose been here even longer, with 1k MORE river frontage, and ask him if you're mr fucking wonderful and everyone knows you. I told you no as I caught you trespassing without even asking.

    Look, heres the reality of the land owner: There have been too many accidents, too much trespassing and WAY to much disrespect from your community to think that people would want you on their land. What benefit do I get? To worry about my family and pets getting shot while I walk my trails? Or sued by some fat asshole who fell in a ditch? Maybe piss off my neighbors? Sorry, but you all did this to yourselves by not policing your own communities. There is 0 benefit to let someone hunt my land, let alone take a casual hike and 1 million reasons not too. If we have an animal that I view dangerous or a problem, I go out and take care of it myself. I don't need anyones help.

    I know I'm being a dick with this post, but some of you act like you are saints and there is no reason for this trend in you losing hunting grounds. Communities that don't police themselves, end up getting policed by people who are sick of their shit. Thats how it goes with everything and hunters STILL don't police their friends, they just throw them under the bus in hopes they get to hunt the spot next which leads me to believe it's only going to get worse. :thumbsup:
     
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  14. Jul 11, 2021 at 3:10 AM
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    ColoradoTJ

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    Pretty much nailed it from the land owners perspective. Same shit we dealt with on my Uncle's land.
     
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  15. Jul 11, 2021 at 3:25 AM
    #15
    Coal Dragger

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    Totally understandable.

    I still maintain that you should have no land owner preference in obtaining tags, and that if you charge trespass fees you should pay property taxes at residential rates (assuming you are not already).

    I am not an advocate for forcing private property owners to grant public access, but I am completely disgusted with land owners in my state that seem to think they can utilize state resources to operate private game hunting reserves. Those guys can get fucked.
     
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  16. Jul 11, 2021 at 3:35 AM
    #16
    woods

    woods New Member

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    1) The state doesn't own the animals thats insane. Did they raise them? Breed them? Did they maintain my property that led to a nice mating area? No, they charged me money every year for the privilege and to ignore that is disgusting. Let me guess, you own my well water too and I shouldn't be allowed rain barrels.

    2) I dont have owner tags and trespassing fees, never even heard of em. That sounds like a local issue But I do own my land and pay taxes and you don't, so stay off of it and have some respect. Or you learn it in jail. If you don't like the rules, start a campaign to change them.

    edit: Also, is the state liable for an accident on my land from your trespassing? You aren't clearly thinking through your stance imo, and ignoring reality for some fantasy land.


    I might be totally reading your points wrong. But it sounds like you're trying to own peoples land and do what you want without putting in any of the work or money and I don't understand that at all. It's communism and not for me.
     
  17. Jul 11, 2021 at 3:45 AM
    #17
    Rgross2112

    Rgross2112 [OP] ASCM #5: Just like Sick and Disgusting

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    This goes to show there are always other sides to the story. Thanks for sharing and putting things in perspective #respect
     
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  18. Jul 11, 2021 at 3:56 AM
    #18
    FWC

    FWC New Member

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    I would think this situation is only going to get worse. With the pandemic and people realizing they can work from home and the migration out of the cities all that property is / has been bought up by city people and as a rule they don't like hunting. I live about 2 hours north of NYC and for years has been a go to area for second homes and all the local farms have been bought up and hunters kicked out. What they don't realize is deer breed like the proverbial rabbit and then these new home owners complain they are over run with deer, not one of them realize hunting is part of a deer management program. Many, often get permits to cull the herd which at times works but also can lead to unscrupulous "hunters" shooting anything that moves. It's a cycle that doesn't need to happen.
     
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  19. Jul 11, 2021 at 3:57 AM
    #19
    woods

    woods New Member

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    Also, I do know hunters and like the ones I know. I've just run into so many negative examples it makes it hard for me to be blindly supportive. I DO believe in hunting and that it is important. There is 1 I let hunt my property, but he is extremely trustworthy and a straight shooter. Always calls and asks before hes coming.
     
  20. Jul 11, 2021 at 4:00 AM
    #20
    woods

    woods New Member

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    how about coyotes! My FIL was a caretaker on 1400 acres and had a guy who hunted them, took a few hundred a year he claimed. FIL passed, property owners don't know the hunter so don't let him. Well my land is a few miles away, and wouldn't you know it, all of a sudden the coyote population in our valley has sky rocketed! Coming after dogs in front yards in mid day!

    Well, a guy down the road with a bigger farm has invited the former hunter to his property, and things are leveling out again. We also have a ton of bear, our state just put info out that theres like 4k more than there was 20 years ago. Two neighbors hunt bear and I let them use my property to get around and cross the river etc... but 3 local bear hunters have passed in the last few years, and new ones aren't coming in.

    Hunting is important and vital. I just wish there was more respect in the general group. I know most posters here probably fit that category so I'm sorry if I'm coming back super hateful.
     
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  21. Jul 11, 2021 at 4:00 AM
    #21
    Shamrock92

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    Kind of repeating the point - but as stated - it see it both ways.

    It sucks losing a spot - especially one that’s been long established - you feel you’ve been respectful of the owners and I have no doubt that’s true.

    As a landowner - it’s honestly more of a pain I the ass for me as a non hunter than you could imagine. We have 100 acres total - decent amount of deer coming across our ground - and set next to. 650 acre tract owned by a larger operator and a 15 acre tract owned by a couple of old hippies - along with an acre owned by a very eager hunter.

    Every year I get the call from people I haven’t spoken to in a year - asking the same thing. A few actually offer a few bucks for my trouble. Sorry it’s just not worth it to me.

    I let a “stranger” on the land and I have to deal not only with them but my neighbors. The larger tract owners typically work the corner closest to me later in the week - and I give them permission to do so with understanding that I allow a few close friends to hunt earlier in week and if something is close to boundaries- they are fine crossing over. Works for all of us and letting someone new in might jeopardize that.

    The old hippies think hunting is barbaric of course - if I started renting out to hunters - there would go there willingness to speak to me and probably cause problems down the road.

    Worst by far would be my neighbor with the acre of ground - he of course thinks any deer he can SEE from his property is his. I mean toss a bit of corn out in a feeder regularly and if the deer wanders over it’s yours isn’t it (regardless of where it stands when you shout it). I have no problem pissing them off - but have already found out what an absolute pain they can be if they don’t get their way. Complaint after complaint about small stuff - had leased pasture to another local and when his cattle got out - who do you think they were calling (not their owner) - complaints about our dog coming over to their property (odd - no mention of their dogs coming over into ours) - complaint about traffic on “their” road (actually township rd until there property drive - then becomes a shared access road between the other 2 and me - abandoned township road for which they have no rights).

    Oh and toss in an immediate family member who fancies themselves a “hunter” - I’d never let them near me with a gun and couldn’t see them walking 100 yards up hill without need of medical assistance - but if I let someone else in “that’s their hunting ground”.

    Ultimately - just not worth it. The one person I let in is an “all seasons” sportsman - I can respect that. I mean everyone wants use of the property a week of gun season - but a few turkey/bow hunters and that’s it.

    All the people who remember when you could get hunt farms regularly and never have a problem seem to forget - in those days you hunted EVERYTHING - and most of it was small game that was damaging crops. You were actually helping farmers out - not just using them for access.

    To the OP - I feel for you. Your case is different - I’m not a big believer in “legacy rights” - but after 20 years the owner needed to have at least been open and shared a potential change with you a season in advance when possible to let you make alternate arrangements (and if they wanted more than a basket of goodies - to have been up front and given you terms to decide on. I have seen more than one of these deals fall apart over an out of towner showing up with a wad of cash - of course you can guess how that went). Good luck - lots of property out there - it’s just making contacts and good references sometimes.
     
  22. Jul 11, 2021 at 4:07 AM
    #22
    woods

    woods New Member

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    good look at the issue I think.
     
  23. Jul 11, 2021 at 4:33 AM
    #23
    FWC

    FWC New Member

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    Coyotes, I have hundreds behind me they do their fair share of damage but no dent in the population. Bears, my neighbor and I have trail cams out and have counted 11 or 12 different bears in our area, granted there are about 400 acres behind us that are woods and fields fairly safe haven for them.

    Big Yote .jpg
    11-14 4 bears.jpg
     
  24. Jul 11, 2021 at 5:00 AM
    #24
    Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger New Member

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    On your first point I suggest you brush up on some laws pertaining to wildlife:

    https://www.animallaw.info/article/american-wildlife-law-introduction

    Cliff notes, you as a land owner don’t own the wildlife on your property. You never did, and unless there are significant changes to statutes in your state of residence you won’t any time soon.

    On your second point you assume that I routinely trespass? Not the case at all.

    Land owner tags are a commonly issued type of tag in many states for property owners who have a certain amount of acreage and can claim depredation to their “crops” or grazing by wildlife. In South Dakota for example it is 160 acres operated for agricultural purposes for deer hunting if memory serves. For land owner preference for elk tags it is 240 acres although the state has been threatening to change that to 1000 acres. It takes non qualifying property owners and other residents on average 12+ years to draw a tag for a bull elk for reference.

    Trespass fees are another common way that land owners make money off of that wildlife they don’t own. In other words a fee a hunter pays to a land owner to hunt on the land. Sometimes ranchers in my area actually set up hunting leases.

    Now I’m not going to tell some rancher what to do with their land, it’s theirs. However if they’re operating it as a hunting preserve for profit I don’t think they should be getting a break on property taxes at an agricultural rate. Nor should they be qualifying for land owner preference in big game tags, depredation tags, or in some cases depredation payments.

    Are they ranching/farming or running a hunting lodge? Pick one and roll with it for tax purposes.
     
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  25. Jul 11, 2021 at 5:09 AM
    #25
    Buckeye1977

    Buckeye1977 New Member

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    I get the pain! My father in law has 35 acres of woods connected to other woods. I hunted it for 5+ years the last year I was there he was letting other guys hunt. It got so bad I would be sitting in a good spot here is some chump strolling right past me. Keep in mind not family and no relation just a kid. Then my brother in law bought property next to his woods so he would would let all of his buddies hunt his woods and tell them “oh it’s my father in laws you can hunt there too”. So there was like 5-6x I would get out there either ppl would walk out past me, but the last time was I went out there and my FIL said “no hunting someone is in there”. ????? Wait so you stop me and don’t stop them?
    It was gun season and a group of 5 walked right under me I confronted them and they said oh your FIL don’t care” I called him up he said “whatever” he knew the guys.
    It started to become where I felt unsafe because people are idiots.

    I offered to lease his land as the son in law and asked him how much it would take. His reply “there no such thing exsist”. I followed up with “name your price” he walked away??

    I spent a lot of money on all my gear and haven’t found another place. My kids are too small but it takes a lot of time also so I haven’t pushed it, basically buy 1/4 of beef. Maybe when my boys get a little older maybe go on a big hunt. He wonders why We don’t go to the woods to hike around, he don’t get it.

    I remember one year my back was in so much pain, chiropractor visits and massages nothing worked just living in pain. Spent one week in the woods, stress and back pain all went away! Hunting and nature can be some major mental, physical, and spiritual therapy.
    Sorry this happened to you.
     
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  26. Jul 11, 2021 at 5:18 AM
    #26
    Festerw

    Festerw New Member

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    I don't hunt myself but know a few that do. Here in NW PA we've got a decent amount of public land, there's a bunch of easy access stuff that gets hunted heavily during rifle.

    However there's a lot more that isn't the 'main' access point that sees maybe a few hunters a week and once you walk a mile in there's no one around.

    The main point is around here anyway most of them are lazy and don't want to have to put in much work. They'll also bitch that most state land here they can't bring their ATVs in to get to better areas.
     
    woods likes this.
  27. Jul 11, 2021 at 5:22 AM
    #27
    Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger New Member

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    I wanted a faster vehicle so I also bought a Chevy SS... because 4 door sedans with big V8’s are hilarious.
    Yeah those guys can also go get fucked too. “Why can’t I drive muh’ ATV all over the place? I don’t wanna sweat up these here 5XL MossyOak Breakup camo pants!”

    They’re the ones Woods is talking about, and I totally understand why he wouldn’t want those oxygen thieves near him, his property, his structures, fences, stock or anything else he cares about.
     
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  28. Jul 11, 2021 at 5:25 AM
    #28
    GODZILLA

    GODZILLA Hail to the King, Baby.

    Joined:
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    Wyoming
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    Trying not to mod it
    I have no issue with private land being private. 99.9% of the time I'll side with the property owner. It does piss me off then there are huge swathes of public land that is landlocked by private land.

    The land owner's treat it like their own private game reserve. Corner hopping isn't allowed and they charge ridiculous prices just to cross their land. That'd be fine if they weren't allowed access to it for grazing and hunting either, or if they paid taxes for the lands they block. As it stands, they get to deny access to the public AND profit from those lands without compensating the public for the use of the public's lands.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2021
    jewsNbrews and woods like this.
  29. Jul 11, 2021 at 5:27 AM
    #29
    Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger New Member

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    I wanted a faster vehicle so I also bought a Chevy SS... because 4 door sedans with big V8’s are hilarious.
    Yep.

    You’re in Wyoming and they play the game there too.

    Next up we could talk about grazing on public land and what a travesty that usually is for said land.
     
    jewsNbrews likes this.
  30. Jul 11, 2021 at 5:51 AM
    #30
    Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Bigfoot Hunter, Sasquatch too, but not Yeti

    Joined:
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    Matt
    Aurora CO
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    TuwaPro rack, Z1 Offroad stuff, NISMO suspension stuff, FlowmasterFX Extreme exhaust, AIS, OVS, J&L can, other goodies on the way
    Most public lands are rarely completely cut off unless in an inaccessabile area to everyone. The FS & BLM need access to public lands that they oversee. Many private land owners will gate these public owned access roads as if they own them. They legally can't prevent anyone from passing "through" their property on a road they don't own.I personally know someone who did exactly that. Owns1400 acres.Got tired of folks not simply passing through but camping, target shooting, and destroying property. He gated the lower and upper access. He got away with it until the next hunting season. Folks complained of lack of access and BLM removed the gates. Since then he has had a CAT tampered with, a building broken into and had hundreds of molybdenum core samples scattered all over the ground. Mining office shot full of holes. Total disrespect for his property. I only own 5 acres and want nobody on it. I recently had a dozen 8' treated fence posts stolen from my property. Left them there last Memorial Day. Gone when I went back down last weekend. I hate fucking thieves and trespassers. Those posts weren't cheap. Freaking heavy too.
     
    woods, ColoradoTJ and Shark Bait like this.

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