HELP- 2000 tundra no crank no start

FIXED

hey guys. my 2000 tundra 4.7 SR5 with 155k recently started struggling to turn on. I would have to jiggle the key or hold the key in the start position and it would crank and turn over.

now it will just one click and no crank, starter relay clicks on but starter does not.
all lights and everything inside turn on though. tends to crank when it is warm outside mid day but not all the time.

I have replaced ign fuses in kick panel, starter relay, 30a and 40a fuse under hood and batt terminals.

i can use a wire stripped on both sides and put it in the 3 and 5 slot in the starter relay holes and the starter will kick on.

i can get the car to start if i put key in on and jump the relay with the wire but wont start when i just try to use the key only...

tearing out this stupid intake manifold this weekend to check connections on starter and replace starter as well

any other suggestions would be much appreciated... will keep updated

 

Have you tested the battery?

 

yes i even got a brand new battery

 

I'll say it before @shifty` does but it's almost never the starter.

So with key on you can jump the relay and it starts every time?

 

yes everytime

 

Seems like it might be good to check your ignition switch. I feel like I don't hear about it here a lot but I've owned or own 3 toyotas that have had their ignition replaced for one reason or the other.

If you can jump the starter relay it seems like your just not getting voltage to the relay to make the relay close.

 

that was something that crossed my mind too but i can feel the relay click when i have someone turn the key, still think its worth checking?

 

Hmm that's odd as well. If you jump the wires and it works everytime it seems unlikely it's anything after the relay though. Are you certain the starter relay is what's clicking if someone turns the key. When you said sometimes you have to jiggle the key is that something that works every time?

 

no that no longer works. but if its like mid day like 3pm and warmer outside it tends to fire up right away with no issues

 

Stupid question, I'm sure, but do you have multiple keys or only this one?

Also, is the key the OEM original or cut-at-store? If multiple keys available, does it behave the same with both keys?

 

it does have another key, the key i use is the oem one and then the other is 1. in another state at my parents house and 2. cut at store

 

You may want to call bullshit on this, and I get it if so. But the points on keys dull over time and cause all kinds of f'ed up shit to happen with ignition cylinders. If your ignition cylinder is stock, any dealership can cut you a new key based on VIN, if you show proof of ownership. I think the last person that had it done on here said it cost them like $35 for the key blank and cut, and they had it done at the parts counter at the dealership. Rather than throwing money right away at an ignition cylinder, if it were me in this position, knowing you have the original, nearly decades old key you're using, I'd have a new OEM key cut and test that.

But saying that, yes, I do find it totally strange you feel a click in the relay when the key is turned forward. It suggests key and ignition wouldn't be the problem. In theory, if you feel that click, it means IGN is sending power signal to the relay, and the relay is throwing its internal arm, but the constant power being fed into that relay on one of the other 4 pins isn't being fed through. That could simply be because the relay itself is flaking out, or the ground pin or the power src pin being pushed into the relay has issues. I can draw up a quick picture of how a relay works if it helps you to visualize what I'm writing here. May give you an 'aha' moment.

 

that would be amazing... i know if your looking at the front of the truck, it has 1 pin left, 1 right, one top middle, one bottom middle... left is power from batt, bottom middle is where it gets power from ign to send to top middle to close the gate to send power from left to right and i believe right goes to starter... i think there is an issue between the switch part in the relay, maybe not making a full connection, but ive put in 3 new relays just on the odd chance i got a bad one

 

also the second key was cut at a dealership... tried it this past weekend when i visited home for the holidays... same thing

 

Maybe the ignition, but like I said if you:

• Feel the relay *click* when someone turns the key forward,
• Can manually jump the pins and it starts fine

That suggests:

1. The ignition and key is working perfectly fine, sending the relay the necessary signal to 'flip' the circuit to activated state
2. Power isn't passing across that circuit once it's activated
3. thus, relay isn't working correctly, or wrong relay installed

 

i can promise it is the right relay... even got an oem one from the stealership to confirm

 

I dunno what to tell you, then. If you feel a click in the relay consistently, every single time someone kicks the key forward, but the starter doesn't fire AND jumpering the power feed pin to the starter power lead at the relay receptacle starts 100% of the time, something isn't adding up here. Not even a faulty/failing battery should cause that. Not even a bad/failing ground should cause that.

The feed from your ignition (going from memory) has a tie-in to the park/neutral switch (PNS). When you turn the key forward, if the penis detects you're in PARK or NEUTRAL, the signal should be sent to the trigger pin on the relay, which activates the relay post (what you feel clicking, the lever switching between posts in the relay), and that sends the charge from the power source (BATT) to the starter input.

The thing that doesn't make sense here is you seem to be indicating that (A) 100% of the time, jumping the pins on the relay socket engage the starter and (B) 100% of the time you feel the relay clicking when the key is turned forward. If either A or B there is not true, that's a pretty important piece of info. It'd clear some confusion.

 

(A) is 100% true, i have to do this anytime i go somewhere lol
(B) I just ran out to check and had my buddy turn the key... it is clicking i put my hand on the relay and i can feel it and hear it click

possibly bad ground connection at the starter? but then how would it kick on when i jump the pins

 

Exactly. This is how a basic relay works:

The red post is a pivot, with a metal arm that jumps between the blue post and green post pictured. Blue post goes to nothing. Green post goes to your starter.

There's a coil (acts as a magnet when charged) in the starter, which is pre-grounded. When you turn the key forward, it sends power down the wire (to IGN FEED), which energizes that coil, which magnetically pulls the pivot arm to the green post (CLICK!), completing the circuit, and pushing battery power to your starter.

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Which is why I'm saying, it would hafta be the wrong relay, or a bad relay. Because:

• Turning the key forward is sending IGN FEED
• You know this because you feel the relay engage the pivot arm, i.e. CLICK!
• Forcibly jumping BATT to STARTER using a wire starts the starter
• But sending signal via IGN FEED to engage the relay doesn't.

The only other possibility I could dream of but I've never seen before is this:

There's not enough voltage on IGN FEED to pull the starter relay pivot onto the post. I don't know how high the voltage would need to be to that specific pin, actually. But you could throw a DMM on each pin, and watch it while a friend trips the key forward to (1) identify the pin and (2) identify the voltage.

Hopefully this shit makes sense, what I'm saying.

 

PS - there are different types of relays with different PIN configurations.

This is why I say, you can't just slap any old relay into any old hole and expect it to work. You can actually fry the shit out of things like that. Similar was happening with one member on here, who was trying to get his heated seats to work; they would never turn off!

I am curious if you got the correct relay. But of course, now I'm curious about how much power is delivered (and required) for your IGN FEED post also ...

 

yeah this makes sense... ive been scratching my brain at this all week.
i also thought it could be not getting enough power because the pin with the arm is getting constant power from the battery, not sure if its a full 12v or what havent tested it... that could be why jumping it works tho because its sending all the power it has straight to the starter

 

also the box for the relay i got says "universal starter relay" i did get the current one from o'rileys tho so it could just be shitty

 

Toyotas tend to act squirrely with non-OEM parts (DENSO or AISIN is their OEM). Generic/universal starter relay from O'reillys doesn't give me warm and fuzzies seeing how often non-OEM parts have caused others so much pain on here. At least you didn't buy it from scAmazon, since there are so many knockoffs/counterfeits on there, it may as well be fleaBay or Alibaba these days.

DENSO shows at least 4 different relays used in your vehicle, but apparently they didn't make the starter relay because they have no cross-ref p/n.

The Toyota OEM part number you need is 2830010020, sometimes stylized 28300-10020. But they want like $65-$75 which may not be palatable for some.

I checked RockAuto, since they're a solid source for legit parts, and all they show is two vendors: SMP (Standard Motor Parts) and WVE, which I've never heard of. SMP is a legit company, they make the OEM fuel spiders and a few other parts for GM, so they are known for building OEM quality stuff.

I'd recommend using the OEM part, but if that's not something you can afford, alternately checking your local auto parts store (look on the website 1st) for the SMP part number which is RY290. Don't confuse it with the part number RY290T, which probably work, but is part of SMP's T-Series, which is the cheaper line (at 15-20% less cost, $19 vs. $24)

PS/EDIT: Advance Auto Parts always has 10-20% off coupons if you order online for store pickup. O'reillys is a shitty ass store. I'd go with Advance 1st, Auto Zone 2nd, and O'reillys never. But that's just me... (NAPA is great, love 'em, but too damn expensive!)

 

ill have to run over to the nearest place with actual the oem relay, hopefully that fixes it and i dont have to tear apart this stupid manifold to get to the starter... the person who designed the starter to be where it is needs to be put in jail for life

 

I somewhat agree with your sentiment. But the starter so rarely goes bad, it's not really an issue. And too many people here realized after changing the starter: It's almost never the starter. Same with the fuel filter for startup/fuel delivery problems: It's literally never, ever the fuel filter, and you gotta bust knuckles to replace that f'er.

However, the person who designed the gap under the manifold that was perfect for rodents to want to get in there and nest, and made the plastics & wire casings on these trucks out of soy-based plastic which tends to attract rodents ... yeah. That MF'er should probably be shot.

I think the starter location is probably the #1 gripe on here. But I can also tell you that at least 80% of no-start issues people come here to report end up NOT being the starter or its wiring (after replacing). Of the remaining 20% where someone said the starter was the issue, probably half were due to rodents. But they typically end up taking out the knock sensor wiring, since both knock sensors (for V8 at least) are up under there with the starter.

If you do replace the starter, remember to replace the manifold gaskets too. You won't need the intermediary gasket that goes between the two halves of the manfiold (if your earlier model manifold has two halves like mine), only the one between the engine and intake manifold.

 

yeah if the OEM relay doesnt work, i will definitely take out this manifold and check the wiring in there as well... might be worth just throwing a new starter in while im in there as some "preventative maintenance" lol

 

If you do, there were two options: Regular starter and 'cold weather'.

This is 1,000% one of those cases where you want to stick with OEM (DENSO - look up the part @ https://www.densoautoparts.com/ using their part finder, and don't order the part on fleaBay or scAmazon). DO NOT buy parts-store bullshit brands. You DO NOT want to need to do this process again

 

hahaha yeah 100% idrk what would be best... i live in AZ so it during the winter it gets cold but not freezing maybe like 40s so i dont think id need the cold weather but ive heard its stronger

 

DO NOT cheap out on those IM gaskets. They WILL crack.

 

On rockauto the bigger "cold weather" starter is usually cheaper actually.