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Expert Advice on In-House RG6 Coax Repair Needed

Discussion in 'Home Improvement' started by JohnLakeman, Jan 26, 2021.

  1. Jan 26, 2021 at 7:08 AM
    #1
    JohnLakeman

    JohnLakeman [OP] Burning Internet Daylight

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    The original owner/builder of my house installed a Cutler-Hammer Whole House Solutions panel box for dozens of CAT5 (alarm) and five RG6 coaxial cables (TV, internet) with underground conduit entry. Dozens of cables are run through the attic to every window, door, fire alarm, smoke detector, and potential TV/internet outlet.

    Cable service was slow getting out to this area, so previous owners opted for satellite TV in the interim. Instead of running new cable to the served areas, the original satellite installer hacked up the home runs out of the panel box and connected them to an attic splitter with input cable from his dish. Easy day for him.

    After seventeen years, Spectrum will finally provide cable service to this area within the next year. I now want to repair the home runs back to the panel box with underground cable entry. This will require repairing and possibly splicing the existing home runs.

    The mechanical aspect of splicing RG6 coax cable is straight forward, consisting of two F-connectors with a barrel between. Splicing additional length may be required in a couple of runs, using four F-connectors and two barrels. My concern is reduction of signal strength from the additional connector components.

    Would it be better to keep the original home runs and simply repair the damage? Or, run all new cable free of splices inline? :mad: My research indicates anywhere from 4db signal loss across one splice, to zero signal loss across a splice (seems unlikely)?

    I already have the bulk cable, so that expense is not an issue. However, the original cable does appear to be stapled in place inside the walls. I suppose simply cutting off the old cable and abandoning that part in the wall is an option.

    Thoughts? Opinions?

    Panel Box.jpg Panel Box Splitter.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  2. Jan 26, 2021 at 7:23 AM
    #2
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    How many drops,how long and can you make a decent connection with the tools at hand are the big questions really.

    I would probably just repair what is there and see how it goes when the service is turned on and go from there unless you want to fish and have fun running new wire then knock yourself out!

    You can but the Belden Snap and Seal Tool and connectors at Lowes now too and this is an excellent tool for making the new connections if you dont already have a pro grade tool? These also have a great stripper built in making them a one tool option for pro grade connections.

    I would also buy the Belden or a Klein Stripper from HD if the tool you already have does not strip too as the stripping is as important as the termination itself,no random wire hair!
    And no nicking of the center conductor is what you want with an even radial strip overall.

    The better the termination the lower your loss will be.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
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  3. Jan 26, 2021 at 7:37 AM
    #3
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    Nice pic that I didnt see when I typed my first reply?
    They seem to have done a careful job when installing at least but also the RG6 looks thin but again I would repair and try it and see how it goes.

    The cable guy will not use the splitters you have in there and should provide decent quality wideband splitters which you really need these days for a workable digital cable feed too.
     
  4. Jan 26, 2021 at 7:53 AM
    #4
    JohnLakeman

    JohnLakeman [OP] Burning Internet Daylight

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    Including the inside-the-wall length, the runs are two @ ~150', one run @ ~100', one at about ~70', and one at about ~60'.

    I think I'm pretty well equipped for making RG6 connections from a previous project (photos below). I did buy the best-looking cheap Chinee F-connectors I saw on Amazon (pre-pandemic), but no barrels. The original plan was to just run it all new again. As you say, it's going to be a lot of work, and I'm reconsidering maybe just patching the hacks and see what happens. Whatever I do, I'll need to do quickly before the weather warms up; installers have my sympathy for Texas summer installations in the attic.

    Panel Box Tools.jpg Panel Box F-connector (3).jpg
     
  5. Jan 26, 2021 at 8:07 AM
    #5
    Dorks68

    Dorks68 New Member

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    I have seen some pretty ugly co-ax runs that were working pretty well. Smashed, kinked, cut, multiple spliced/barrels, etc etc. RG-6 really should only be used up to 150’ but I have seen it used up to 600’ lol.
    If replacing those RG-6 doesn’t require extreme dedication I would definitely do it.
    If it will be hard, splice in those barrels and check it out.
     
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  6. Jan 26, 2021 at 8:11 AM
    #6
    JohnLakeman

    JohnLakeman [OP] Burning Internet Daylight

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    Yeah, sorry, I forgot the pics. My posts tend to be works in progress until I get it right. :D

    The original owner/builder of the house was an electrical contractor. He must have done his own wiring, and suffered from perfectionist tendencies like me. He added high-end features such as motion switches on closet, utility room, and pantry lighting.

    From my previous contact with cable installers, I suspected they might veto the old built-in splitters.

    Unfortunate that the cable looks thin. :( In anticipation of replacing all the home runs, I bought 1000' of the same cable, Honeywell-Genesis RG6 CCS Dual-Shield, GENERAL PURPOSE, 50031108, CATV CL2 SUNRES. The house is seventeen years old, so cable specifications have probably had to improve since then.
     
  7. Jan 26, 2021 at 8:17 AM
    #7
    Dorks68

    Dorks68 New Member

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    If you do decide to replace cables, a good method I have used to get new drop cable into tight spaces is: strip about 3” off the end of your old and new RG-6, interlink the 3” copper stinger wire (like you would hook/link your two index fingers together) then wrap the remaining copper wire around the cable it came off of 4 or 5x. Then using electrical tape, wrap the connection as tight as possible so there are no sharp edges or copper ends sticking out. Now you can pull in the new cable with the old. This allows you to pull pretty hard just don’t pull too hard. Will save you lots of wall fishing!
     
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  8. Jan 26, 2021 at 8:19 AM
    #8
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    You can get a Quad Shield RG6 at the big box stores now everywhere and it is a much better lower loss cable and you will need different connectors then usually too but your crimper is a decent radial compression crimper and should make good connections either way you decide to go.

    The bandwidth of the cable systems has increased a lot in the 17 years and those older splitters just wont cut it these days frequently but the installers will be all over those and get you modern ones for sure.

    Like Dorks said though and I agree I have seen things that should not work,work with coax and so I would let the installer do his thing and see what happens unless you want to do the work it cant hurt anything either to run new cables.
     
  9. Jan 26, 2021 at 8:29 AM
    #9
    oldscout1001

    oldscout1001 New Member

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    You should consider how you'll use your cable TV and if you'll even need or use your cut cables. Perhaps you wont need to repair or replace them at all.

    Spectrum provides a TV app available on many smart TVs (We use the XBOX One) so you don't need the cable or cable box to watch TV. Plus a lot of people have cut the cord and don't subscribe to cable TV at all and just use streaming services over Spectrum internet. So you could get away with 1 cable entry into the house to your modem and your wireless router/switch. Everything else is just wireless from there. And if you do have Cat 6 run throughout the house, use it for better connection for your main devises, game consoles, TVs etc.

    Good luck
     
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  10. Jan 26, 2021 at 8:32 AM
    #10
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    True,in the business a lot of us refer to this as "Screaming" to so far!

    I have switched a lot of homes over to Scream only to come back and switch them back to Cable for a variety of reasons and as long as the cable is there already and it will work I always suggest the Box first.
    You can also just have both too,Sort of.

    Change=Bad.

    And I am old.
     
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  11. Jan 26, 2021 at 8:38 AM
    #11
    JohnLakeman

    JohnLakeman [OP] Burning Internet Daylight

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    I was hoping for that originally, but preliminary indications are the guy stapled the RG6 to the studs inside the wall. That is fine OCD construction for an OCD guy like me...until you need to pull new wire in by pulling out the old. Maybe it's a code thing.

    Anyway, I'm going to have to come up with something at the panel box. I can't abandon the cable remnants in the panel box conduit. May be able to use that tip there. Those will have to come out, there's not enough room for five more cables in the conduit. (Hmmm...moving toward patching the hacks.) :annoyed:
     
  12. Jan 26, 2021 at 8:45 AM
    #12
    Toyotoholic

    Toyotoholic -4Life-

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    Some really good and accurate points here.
    RG6 cable runs should remain under 150' over that you should use RG11
    Pulling out old coax with a new run like @Dorks68 said is best, but very important to pull slow and add a wire lube to not burn up the other cables in the conduits.
    Believe it or not unused coax has shelf life of about 10 to 15 years, it can be used, and will most likely work, but it can go bad just by being old.
    The f-barrel should have a blue inner coating around the center receiving hole. This indicates wideband.
    Any nicks on the center core when terminating will result in loss.

    Try and find 100%copper center core coax, not coated aluminum or some china alternative. The quality of the cable is important.

    Double check to see it is actually RG6 and not "skinny" RG59. They look nearly identical if thin.

    Quad shielding is best when the runs are proximal to high voltage cables, and overall a better cable
    If you have high loss (over10db) from the street you have problems, and you will need a line amp.
    Rule of thumb: 1db loss per termination. 3.5-7 db loss per split, depending on#of splits

    Make sure you ground the splitters or hub distribution center to the same ground as d-mark (street egress)
    If you can run new. Belden is quality cable.
     
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  13. Jan 26, 2021 at 8:49 AM
    #13
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    Not sure what you mean about abandoning old cables but why not?
    It looks like the Coax there now comes from above only which tells me that those are the runs to the room outlets and not from outside.
    Then there is an empty pipe on the bottom that I am assuming comes in from the outside where there is nothing run yet?

    If that is the case then this is what a Fish Tape is for and if you know where the outside end if the outside pipe is then stick a tape in either end and see if you can get it to show at the other end,this might be so simple that you will weep.
    It also might be so hard that you will weep.

    But it is what it is and there is often no real problem fishing the outside run especially of it is empty so far.

    If this doesnt work then it will be the installers job and problem to get the feed inside if he can or they might want to put the ground block and interface point outside and try to run cables outside where it is easy for them.
    You probably do not want this but many do not really care either way.

    Does this make sense?
     
  14. Jan 26, 2021 at 8:49 AM
    #14
    JohnLakeman

    JohnLakeman [OP] Burning Internet Daylight

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    You know, I had not considered just forgetting cable on the long runs. :facepalm:

    We're already streaming movies on the two longest runs even with piss-poor 12mbps internet. It uses the router's 2.4 ghz band, but it works at that distance! Maybe I'll just run the shortest run 60' new cable to the office where the PCs and router are located.

    Thanks @oldscout1001. You've helped me to rationalize not doing a lot of work. I'll leave the cable spool for the next guy if wants to run video games.
     
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  15. Jan 26, 2021 at 9:04 AM
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    eick

    eick New Member

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    If it were me, I'd try splicing it first and see what the signal looks like. If it doesn't work, then what I would do, is put all the cable boxes in one place, run two cat6 cables to every place I think I may want to use a TV, and get hdmi extenders (with IR built in)

    That's what I do, there is no coax in my house anymore. The cable line comes in from outside and goes to a bumpout I built in my attic. I run HDMI extenders to the TV's from there. They only use one ethernet cable usually but I ran two just in case I want to go 4k in the future.
     
  16. Jan 26, 2021 at 9:20 AM
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    JohnLakeman

    JohnLakeman [OP] Burning Internet Daylight

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    Yes, abandon from "abandon in place" meaning you're not going to use it anymore, and removal is unnecessary, too difficult, and/or too expensive.

    You are correct that the underground cable entry WILL have to fixed before Spectrum arrives. Spectrum will provide direct burial cable from street to house. Normally, they just come out of the ground at the house wall, run it up the side of the house, come in through the soffit, add the splitter and run cable to each service area. If I want to use the panel box, it's going to get complicated.

    I ran a fish rod down the panel box entry conduit, and it appears to run down through the wall, and make a 90 degree long radius turn to the outside underground. I couldn't tell if it was capped or just filled with dirt. The bad news is the AC guys came along after the electricians, and installed the AC condenser DIRECTLY over the stub conduit. (Genius, huh.) Once it warms up a little, my plan is to excavate under the AC condenser, find the stub conduit, and extend it. I'm thinking my best plan is to extend it out to the edge of the AC condenser pad, 90 long radius turn up, and cap it. A junction box of some type will have to be added later when Spectrum arrives.
     
  17. Jan 26, 2021 at 9:38 AM
    #17
    jr1016

    jr1016 New Member

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    Having 1 splice for each outlet from wallplate to panel will not hurt the signal. I've been doing cable installation for more than 20 years and everytime I get to a prewired house that has a satellite dish on the side of the house 99% of the time it's spliced in the attic. Satellite dish installers are known to do that all the time to save time of the installation. If you're worried about not having enough signal to the house, the cable installer should be able to test for signal strength and integrity of the existing cable. You can also have the cable technician do the splicing for you so that the proper connectors and barrel are used. As much as the technician might not want to do it, it's part of the job and part of whatever install fee you pay or even free installaton.
     
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