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ECU Tuning

Discussion in 'Performance and Tuning' started by TruckyTruck, Jan 18, 2017.

  1. Jan 18, 2017 at 2:41 PM
    #1
    TruckyTruck

    TruckyTruck [OP] Dumbest Username

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    There is a new option for tuning your truck, right around the corner...

    It looks like this guy may know what he is doing and will offer something, especially for the ffv owner, something better than has been available before.

    http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/tu...cations/648329-tundra-ecu-tuning-reflash.html

    https://www.ovtuned.com/collections...-ecu-reflash-tune-phase-1?variant=32657281676

    I'm so tempted to send him my '13 ffv ECU, but I use my truck, like most, for a daily driver.

    I'd love a tuned ECU, that won't cause rough starts and my truck thinking it's running ethanol!
     
    Mountun Goat likes this.
  2. Jan 18, 2017 at 4:46 PM
    #2
    Mike

    Mike Tread lightly.

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    This is interesting. Someone was really able to find a real way into the ecu unlike bulldog POS (trying so to speak)

    If this guy did what I think he did,this will open up the ECU alot, and put bully dog in there grave with tuning Toyota.

    He reminds me of what jet did years ago to ECM back in 90s.
     
  3. Jan 18, 2017 at 5:14 PM
    #3
    the_midwesterner

    the_midwesterner New Member

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    None, yet....
    None of what was written in there proves anything. A majority of those calculations and load cells can be seen on technstream. Additionally, sophisticated dynos can also calculate most of that based on engine parameters and data output from the DLC3.

    Effectively, what that guy is saying is that he unlocked all CAN protocols for the ECUs, has somehow created software that allows him to either flash tune or live tune(doubtful) and then has succesfully unlocked the security required by the ECM for flash software updates. I am not sure if you guys know what this means, but it's borderline impossible. A LOT and I mean A LOT more companies bigger, smarter and with more resources have tried without success. I am not saying he didn't do it, but I'd be curious and am skeptical to really know how he did it. He's been all over Facebook advertising this and doing his "mail order" tunes, which are a crock of shit to begin with, but hasn't provided actual data to prove out all that info.

    I'd be REALLY leery about what he is offering. I reviewed his website and am not convinced. Considering I have direct acces to calibrations and engineering drawings working for the company, he hasn't convinced me.
     
    Mountun Goat likes this.
  4. Jan 18, 2017 at 5:27 PM
    #4
    bobeast

    bobeast really old member

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    I've been watching with a healthy dose of skepticism as well. That thread has been promising dyno results "real soon now" for going on 2 weeks.
     
    Mountun Goat likes this.
  5. Jan 18, 2017 at 6:34 PM
    #5
    831Tun

    831Tun crazy Bastrd

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  6. Jan 18, 2017 at 6:50 PM
    #6
    TruckyTruck

    TruckyTruck [OP] Dumbest Username

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    Yeah, you never know. Why are mail order tunes a crock of shit? There are a lot of different software versions for our trucks. This is why bullydog has failed with the flex fuel version of thier tunes.

    I'm keeping any eye on it and really hoping for something good to come of it. I don't have Facebook, so if you see any new info, would you mind posting in this thread?
     
  7. Jan 18, 2017 at 6:52 PM
    #7
    TruckyTruck

    TruckyTruck [OP] Dumbest Username

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    I know! I mean come on, in this day and age, does anyone really think it's impossible to tear these programs apart and modify them? It just takes the brains and will to do it. It would be so nice to have a real tune...
     
  8. Jan 18, 2017 at 6:53 PM
    #8
    TruckyTruck

    TruckyTruck [OP] Dumbest Username

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    Of course... When bullydog first came out and was charging 800 dollars for a tune that sucked, people paid for it.
     
  9. Jan 18, 2017 at 6:55 PM
    #9
    TruckyTruck

    TruckyTruck [OP] Dumbest Username

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    Awesome! If you end up liking it, I may get one too
     
  10. Jan 18, 2017 at 7:18 PM
    #10
    the_midwesterner

    the_midwesterner New Member

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    None, yet....
    If I have to explain why mail order tunes are a crock of shit, then you have obviously never had any highly modified vehicles. Basically, you are counting on a guy you barely know, to know everything there is to know about your truck and the parameters it requires without ever looking at it or logging data. As much as it may seem like it, no 2 motors are identical. Some like more timing, some less. This goes all into the amount of clearancing within the motor, how it was assembled, etc etc. the only saving grace is that Toyota software measures true AFs to make corrections. That way the ECM actually knows how close to stoichiometric the motor is or isn't.

    Mail order tunes are a "one size fits all" type of thing. This doesn't work in clothes sizing and it doesn't work on car computers either.

    Actually, Yes... it has been impossible. Can you name a different company that provides a flash software like HP Tuners or EFI Live does for GM/Ford cars? I didn't think so. All of this has to do with how locked down the ECMs are from a design perspective. Effectively, Toyota doesn't want you to get into them and unless someone has the CAN protocols and security software to update and approve a CAL ID via the secure method that genereates a security key on tech stream, it can't be done.

    The fact that you think the bully dog was a tune, further proves my point that you don't know what you are talking about.


    Feel free to buy as you please, I am here trying to shed some knowledge for the guys that are on the fence and actually want to know about the subject. These "tunes" that the guy are selling don't seem legit. Bear in mind that one of these tunes can grenade a motor if it goes lean.

    Hopefully I am wrong and I'll be sure to tell you when I am, but I have my doubts. By all means, if this software is tunable, then this guy just became a millionaire and I will be buying the software. The fact that he's sending you a handheld instead of a full laptop based software tells me it isn't legit. You basically don't know what you are getting, nor if it will actually improve power/performance.

    Think about this: If the big names that have poured tons of cash into reasearching this haven't figured it out, I doubt a guy like this has been able to.
     
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  11. Jan 18, 2017 at 10:44 PM
    #11
    TruckyTruck

    TruckyTruck [OP] Dumbest Username

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    :laugh: You're right, I've never had a "highly modded" vehicle... just what I can afford and just enough to have fun with it.

    And Luis, calm your tits. It doesn't matter to me if you think I don't know what I'm talking about or if any of your points have been proven. Shed all the light you want little buddy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
    Mountun Goat, Dustydirt19 and joonbug like this.
  12. Jan 18, 2017 at 11:18 PM
    #12
    TruckyTruck

    TruckyTruck [OP] Dumbest Username

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    Yeah, I guess you read his response to you. I hope this guy is for real.
     
  13. Jan 19, 2017 at 3:09 AM
    #13
    the_midwesterner

    the_midwesterner New Member

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    None, yet....
    Didn't realize my tits needed calming... I am sharing knowledge. As I said, I may be proven wrong, but if I am that dude will be the next Mcmillionaire. Many people have tried what he is trying to do. Usually, if you unlock one, the rest will come at a later time, so other vehicles like IS, IS-F, RC-F, GS-F will also be tunable. That market is huge!

    This is the Internet btw, it's silly to get upset at the internet...
     
    TruckyTruck [OP] likes this.
  14. Jan 19, 2017 at 6:17 AM
    #14
    louscrw

    louscrw all jacked up on Mt. Dew

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    in signature
    ...if it seems to good to be true, most of the time it is
     
  15. Jan 19, 2017 at 6:27 AM
    #15
    T-Rex266

    T-Rex266 Independentoffroad who? That's cute. Staff Member

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    Your previous post above seemed to have gotten you worked up.

    We appreciate your input, but you did come off as dick headish there.
     
    bobeast, Mike and TruckyTruck [OP] like this.
  16. Jan 19, 2017 at 8:29 AM
    #16
    gosolo

    gosolo “The .com stands for communist”, Dale Gribble

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    If it's on the innerweb it's gotta be true, right??
     
    TruckyTruck [OP] likes this.
  17. Jan 19, 2017 at 10:42 AM
    #17
    TruckyTruck

    TruckyTruck [OP] Dumbest Username

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    It could be that this guy doing the "tuning" :laugh: works for CNN and is spreading fake news...
     
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  18. Jan 19, 2017 at 1:13 PM
    #18
    bobeast

    bobeast really old member

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    The first "miss" was because the shop closed early. The second was because the Tundra wouldn't fit. I feel like we're being cat-fished. Either way, If he's just taking a "tuned" truck in to get dyno'ed the numbers will be meaningless, unless he does a baseline pull, first.
     
    TruckyTruck [OP] likes this.
  19. Jan 19, 2017 at 2:00 PM
    #19
    AnonVet

    AnonVet That's what she said!

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    8 inch pro comp 35x12.5 RPB Repulsars 18x9 Rhino Glamis Murdered out Spyder heads Smoked tails Leds all around her Debadged CNCd tundra grill Chopper and modified front bumper The lost goes on....
    First off, unlocking the security required by the ECM for flash software updates is no where near impossible. I've got extensive experience and schooling on software and information and it just literally takes a little bit of finagling. I'm not sure how much knowledge is lurking around here but hacking isn't as difficult as it looks, neither is mirroring. I'm sure sooner or later a fellow engineer will see this and know the same. I'm by no means saying any one is wrong or right, but impossible is nothing, especially when dealing with computer information.
     
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  20. Jan 19, 2017 at 3:54 PM
    #20
    Mike

    Mike Tread lightly.

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    Bingo we have a winner here.. alittle brute force is all you need I will stop there plus few other tools.
     
  21. Jan 19, 2017 at 6:00 PM
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    the_midwesterner

    the_midwesterner New Member

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    None, yet....
    I'll give you that, I could see it as coming off as a dickish. Not the first time I've heard this and I doubt it'll be the last.

    See my point? I found him on Facebook and did some digging. My understanding of what he is doing is not actually building the software to tune, but it seems to be a middle man for a newer CAL from other countries. Who knows what is actually in it. If anyone does get one and is able to pull the file off the handheld, I can read the code via text file and try to compare notes to one of Toyotas actual calibrations.

    I am neither a computer science nor computer engineer any means, I am just an ol' ME. I don't foresee the security being the issue, the problem will be the CAN protocols and then getting something to tell techstream to flash the CAL and have it match the database that it pings off of to match the vehicle to the CAL ID. This is all assuming that the data input by this dude is worth it and hoping that it actually does something other than grenade motors. None of this is actually worth it unless it's a laptop based software where a tuner can actually custom tune your truck based on YOUR setup/environment/driving style/etc/etc. You're better off spending the money on long tubes and an x-pipe exhaust that can actually add power to motor by letting the engine breathe easier
     
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  22. Jan 19, 2017 at 6:30 PM
    #22
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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  23. Jan 19, 2017 at 6:33 PM
    #23
    gosolo

    gosolo “The .com stands for communist”, Dale Gribble

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    She can tune my trunk, I mean truck, anytime!
     
  24. Jan 19, 2017 at 6:39 PM
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    joonbug

    joonbug bacon

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    Why would she tune your anything??? :confused: She's a delivery girl, not a mechanic!! You have to say something like she can handle my package anytime. :D
     
  25. Jan 19, 2017 at 6:54 PM
    #25
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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    I have had a few motors dyno tuned using HP tuners, EFILive, and had a few programmers like the Smarty CR.

    Over the years I have seen people send out their ECU and get a pretty good running vehicle, but it was never perfect. Like Luis said, no two motors are alike and run exactly the same. For best overall performance, a program from EFILive is needed and a dyno run should be performed.

    I'm following this thread, and in my opinion, he hasn't done it. Take the same truck stock, make three pulls. Download new tune, make three pulls.
     
  26. Jan 19, 2017 at 7:14 PM
    #26
    D1227

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    "Grenade a motor" thanks bro that will haunt me in my sleep. I'm gonna go sit in my truck and caress the steering wheel and tell her I won't let anyone hurt her ever.
     
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  27. Jan 19, 2017 at 7:14 PM
    #27
    the_midwesterner

    the_midwesterner New Member

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    None, yet....
    .........on the same day, with the same ambient temp, same air density, and same engine temp, and only then would we have actual data sets with similar parameters.
     
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  28. Jan 19, 2017 at 7:30 PM
    #28
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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    Exactly. It would need to be back to back in the same hour.

    Not all dyno operators should be one either. I had one f-tard try and dyno my 02 HO Cummins with a "few" goodies. I had my truck dyno ran and it pulled a 368/890 at the wheels from a reputable place. This started at a Ford dominated aftermarket shop and I was there to get an emissions run on the dyno. The owner started talking shit and I put my money where my mouth was, and so he took the challenge.

    The dyno operator didn't have the barometric pressure, ambient temperature, and couldn't get the correct weight of my vehicle programmed, or even know what gear was 1:1 in my truck. First run he got a 460 hp run and maxed out the torque. He was amazed at how "powerful" my truck was. I just laughed and thought to myself "there is a truck two blocks down the street that would destroy this Mustang dyno". His truck put down 800hp and over 1400 tq. That was a fun truck to drive.
     
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  29. Jan 19, 2017 at 7:38 PM
    #29
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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    Another aspect is why even tune stock motor?

    Tuning is for when something has changed outside of the factory setup that the factory ECU cannot correct and adjust for.

    intake manifold, cam(s), heads, NOS, injectors, SC or Turbo, etc.

    Can someone tune a factory LS motor to get a little more ass out of it? Yes. There is plenty of power left off the table with those motors.
     
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  30. Jan 19, 2017 at 7:50 PM
    #30
    D1227

    D1227 New Member

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    My tundra is my only Driver lol...it's also hands down the best vehicle I have ever drove. I don't know much about tuning engines but I do believe if I did some dumb shit and my motor grenaded I would end up with a permanent mental disorder.
     
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