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Best roof rack choice for CrewMax... Spider?

Discussion in '2.5 Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by GaFFLe, Aug 30, 2020.

  1. Aug 30, 2020 at 4:18 PM
    #1
    GaFFLe

    GaFFLe [OP] New Member

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    So I'm debating on installing a roof rack for my '20 Toyota CMax. I like the low-profile look of the Prinsu models but when I saw they required drilling in the roof, I was turned off as I don't want the possibilities of leaks. I ran across this one by some guy in CA. from Spider. It requires no drilling in the roof and seems clever in the way it was implemented. Thoughts?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD--F-vIp4c

    ... Or, should I consider the typical Thule type?
     
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  2. Aug 30, 2020 at 4:44 PM
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    sf319

    sf319 New Member

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    Have any more information on the Spider Roof Rack? The "No Drill" idea makes complete sense, though it does require drilling, but not into the factory sheet metal. Makes me wonder why all the others haven't figured this out, or they did, and if falls apart so they resorted back to drilling.
     
  3. Aug 30, 2020 at 8:37 PM
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    Hightide

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  4. Aug 30, 2020 at 8:45 PM
    #4
    warhammer44

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  5. Aug 30, 2020 at 9:09 PM
    #5
    Hightide

    Hightide SSEM #88 - 3MW - ASCM #2 RGBA#Q

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    Sent an email about doing a possible group buy or if there was an option to purchase the mounting blocks alone.

    This would work with most racks.
     
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  6. Aug 30, 2020 at 11:11 PM
    #6
    InTheRough

    InTheRough New Member

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    I like where they are going with the 'no-drill' idea but, as someone else pointed out in another thread, you have to epoxy the mounts into the gutter... directly to paint. I'm skeptical but I have no expertise in adhesives, their effect on paint, or weight/wind pressure rating. It will be interesting to see the idea play out.
     
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  7. Aug 31, 2020 at 5:17 AM
    #7
    Hightide

    Hightide SSEM #88 - 3MW - ASCM #2 RGBA#Q

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    Posi-traction 4 on the floor Fuzzy dice

    Just so you know, there are adhesives all over your vehicle. Epoxy is a super-adhesive.
    The mounting block locks in to the rain channel as well.
    As explained in the install video, you have to take a rubber mallet to “set” the mount in the groove.
    The groove that has an indentation throughout.

    I believe it’ll be fine.
     
  8. Aug 31, 2020 at 5:37 AM
    #8
    Boerseun

    Boerseun MGM XP-Series

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    I'm skeptical about this one also. I am 100% comfortable with it able to handle static weight, but dynamic uplift due to wind can actually be a bigger force than the static weight (which is why wind can blow dumpsters and semi trucks over, and even lift them off the ground, or make airplanes fly). The epoxy on the paint bond is only as strong as the bond between the paint and the metal, which we know is not very strong. The only part that I don't have enough information to comment on is how tight the bracket sits in the channel after hammering it in (but looking at the video how easy it is to hammer it in - wind force might easily pull it out)
    o_O
     
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  9. Aug 31, 2020 at 5:46 AM
    #9
    InTheRough

    InTheRough New Member

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    I don't disagree with you that there are adhesives all over the truck and that epoxy may be a super adhesives but I always consider the weakest point; the paint that it's glued to. Also, how many of those adhesives are intended to hold 150lbs of gear with jolting, vibrarion and 60+ mph winds. Most of the adhesives on the vehicle are double sided tape intended to hold down a 1lb piece of trim.
    If I'm not mistaken only the front and rear foot bases are "set" while the middle foot is purely epoxied. I don't think that would necessarily pose a problem as the middle leg could be considered as mainly a weight support.
    With that being said, I do hope that the technology of roof racks can evolve past compression fittings in a door jamb (Yakima/Thule) or drilling through the roof.
     
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  10. Aug 31, 2020 at 5:52 AM
    #10
    Hightide

    Hightide SSEM #88 - 3MW - ASCM #2 RGBA#Q

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    I can’t attest to the epoxy that this particular individual is using, however, I sold epoxies for 18 years.
    That will not be the weak point.

    Looking at the combination of epoxy and locking into the groove should be strong enough.
    If the paint fails thats not the epoxy or the products fault.
     
  11. Aug 31, 2020 at 8:14 AM
    #11
    Boerseun

    Boerseun MGM XP-Series

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    If it fails it fails. If the product is designed to rely on the strength of the paint adhesion then failure is still the product's fault. I am not saying it will fail, but I am a little skeptical. (I have done a lot of wind load calculations in my life....)
     
  12. Aug 31, 2020 at 9:10 AM
    #12
    Hightide

    Hightide SSEM #88 - 3MW - ASCM #2 RGBA#Q

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    When watching the video, it appears the only contact and holding point is not the adhesive but the locking indentation, groove in the base clip and the factory groove in the rain gutter.
    Hence the mallet.
    I think the paint would not be the critical failure were something to occur.

    I have dealt with wind uplift values as well. Not only in selling epoxies but doing large commercial roof installation and design,(using quite a bit of these same principles) and aircraft design in the navy.

    You will not create the uplift forces on your truck that are standard in the Miami/Dade Hurricane Building Code.
    There are tons of epoxies holding products, to this day, that meet these standards easily.
    By a factor of 4-10x at times.


    I understand the wait and see though.

    However, it is a good debate.

    Looks like they’re doing about 80mph here but it does have the tire as well.

    https://youtu.be/uztXiKpL1ho
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2020
  13. Aug 31, 2020 at 9:47 AM
    #13
    mountainpete

    mountainpete Explore more

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    I have used all kinds of racks on vehicles over the years and have really mixed feelings about this product. Here is why:

    Much of how roof racks are used on overland vehicles is, in my opinion, incorrect. Going back 15 years, I had all kinds of stuff up there. Tent, lights, fuel, tire and even at times firewood. I put WAAAAAY too much weight up there and the vehicle became both top heavy and frankly dangerous in the event of a collision. Experience has taught me that even though I love toys, on the roof less is best.

    Today, I do put a tent up top but not much else. Ok, maybe some fly rods when exploring between sites. However, I love using the rack as a platform - either to reach up high on things or as a viewing platform with binoculars. It's why I have a Prinsu toprac on the canopy.

    Going back to the Spider, until it's actually proven I would consider using it for a platform use case. It could be great for it. But there is zero chance I would put a tent up there.
     
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  14. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:16 AM
    #14
    Hightide

    Hightide SSEM #88 - 3MW - ASCM #2 RGBA#Q

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    I would give time for testing or proving for most cases.

    I’m doing some math on the contact points, grooves and holding capabilities compared to other none mechanical attachment methods.
    I’ll pass that along when done.

    I’m not affiliated with Tiger. I just like the design and have been wanting a more flush mount, no drill attachment, besides this.
    288A3D53-BFE4-4587-9B5E-C4DC8ED2552C.jpg


    Here is one of their strength test. Independent lab verification would be better but there’s a ton of products with “on road” testing. Some fair better than others.

    https://youtu.be/SGiW9-atfks
     
  15. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:31 AM
    #15
    dittothat

    dittothat New Member

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    I like the idea but never would take a chance on that product. If you’re driving down the highway and that rack flies off, you’re liable. I’d feel pretty bad if someone else were to get injured simply because I didn’t want to drill holes in my roof. If you want a secure rack up top, expect to drill.
     
  16. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:34 AM
    #16
    mountainpete

    mountainpete Explore more

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    I appreciate the video but this tests nothing. I could put a couple of pieces of wood up there and do the exact same thing. The only thing they are proving is that the bolts they are using for their crossbars are of decent quality.
     
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  17. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:38 AM
    #17
    Hightide

    Hightide SSEM #88 - 3MW - ASCM #2 RGBA#Q

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    Are you saying this isn’t secure?
    It’s not drilled in and has basically the same amount of contact area as the other with the groove and indentations in the clip and rain channel.

    19876C2C-77C7-4458-BCA1-BA52544BA952.jpg
     
  18. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:40 AM
    #18
    mountainpete

    mountainpete Explore more

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    Function before sparkle.
    And yes, I want to give them time. But as a brand, they should be leading with actual engineering, not bro-testing.
     
  19. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:42 AM
    #19
    Hightide

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    I understand that.
    I was only posting for reference.

    I guarantee you, many other roof rack manufacturers go through as much or less testing.

    At least this concept helps to avoid drilling the airbags on accident.

    Just my .02.
     
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  20. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:43 AM
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    mountainpete

    mountainpete Explore more

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    That style of rack and the clip have thousands of hours of engineering and testing. That includes for companies like Thule, crash testing using Volvo. They are held in by compression, the hook as well as a closed door. You can't compare them.
     
  21. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:44 AM
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    Hightide

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    The manufacturer, Tiger, states he has had other testing that the videos were just done for minimal reference.

    Yes, I agree, there should be testing.
    I’m only stating that the concept is pretty damn crafty.
     
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  22. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:45 AM
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    mountainpete

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    I totally appreciate the posts! It's great conversation!

    I do agree that some manufacturers do little testing. The big ones like Yakima and Thule absolutely do. They also align to ISO standards:

     
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  23. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:46 AM
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    mountainpete

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    I agree. It's times like this that innovation happens and I actually want them to succeed!
     
  24. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:47 AM
    #24
    Hightide

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    I’m goin to attempt to. That’s what math is for.

    The clip in question has lips that lock into the grooves in the rain channel.

    With proper design it could absolutely hold as much.
    It’s simple engineering.
     
  25. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:51 AM
    #25
    Hightide

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    Correct. But I would like to see the testing on the other “independent” brands being sold as well.

    Some others have questionable attachments, even when drilling.
    The bolt is rarely the point of failure.
     
  26. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:52 AM
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    mountainpete

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    Lol - engineering was never that simple to me :anonymous:

    The grooves are there, but weren't they designed for torsional rigidity of the roof due to the large sunroof design? However, I would assume that rigidity would actually increase if there are 6 mounting points tied to a rack. The question becomes whether or not the grooves are strong enough to hold the rack in position without flex.
     
  27. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:52 AM
    #27
    smslavin

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    if you drop the headliner, even just the edges, and take your time, there's no way you'll put a drill through the airbags.
     
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  28. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:53 AM
    #28
    Bob_Wiley

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    Seems like the strength of that design depends largely on the tapered ends of the roof channel, in addition to the epoxy. Specifically, the piece that sits at the back end of the rack *should* provide stability from headwinds, which would only push the mounting block further back into the narrowing channel (if I understand the design correctly).

    I like the idea of not having to drill, but there’s a lot riding on that design as many of you have pointed out. I’ll be interested to hear how it holds up in real-world conditions.
     
  29. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:53 AM
    #29
    Hightide

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    Posi-traction 4 on the floor Fuzzy dice

    100%

    I wish I would have thought of it.
     
  30. Aug 31, 2020 at 10:53 AM
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    mountainpete

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    I agree.
     

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