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Best Battery choice for build?

Discussion in 'General Tundra Discussion' started by COndorian, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. Jan 20, 2020 at 6:15 AM
    #1
    COndorian

    COndorian [OP] New Member

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    New to building a rig. I'm starting with the power source and going piece by piece. Need some advice. Need a new battery with warrantee to power truck and accessories as I add on lights, inverter, etc.... Cost is always a big consideration. Please advise. Thank you!
     
  2. Jan 20, 2020 at 6:45 AM
    #2
    RitcheyRch

    RitcheyRch New Member

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    Odyssey AGM
     
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  3. Jan 20, 2020 at 7:05 AM
    #3
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 Looks clean even when its dirty!

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    Either Odyssey or Northstar

    I have a northstar 27f.....it's a beast
     
  4. Jan 20, 2020 at 7:07 AM
    #4
    scharring100

    scharring100 New Member

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    I agree with Odyssey, if you really have lot of accessories to power you might consider a dual battery setup. It would be nice to add but I dont have that much that needs additional power and could not justify the added cost.
     
  5. Jan 20, 2020 at 9:02 AM
    #5
    Stig

    Stig New Member

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    Cost is of course a consideration but first you have to decide how you will use it, what will be powered and if that will happen while the engine is off and how it will be charged. You didn't really specify that info so hard to suggest anything.

    Some will suggest an agm battery but the factory alternator system does not out out enough voltage to top those off and they will not last as long as they should, so that's a whole other thing to consider
     
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  6. Jan 20, 2020 at 9:04 AM
    #6
    Brownsfanhere

    Brownsfanhere New Member

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  7. Jan 20, 2020 at 9:14 AM
    #7
    ChrisTRDPro

    ChrisTRDPro New Member

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  8. Jan 20, 2020 at 9:21 AM
    #8
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    As @Stig suggested, the alternator should be your first upgrade.

    Yesterday I was out with friends all day off-roading and spent a good portion of the day with my hood up charging other peoples failed charging systems. I went from a 90A to 160A alternator and it was an excellent choice.
     
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  9. Jan 20, 2020 at 9:29 AM
    #9
    NoRcptn

    NoRcptn Better than mediocre poster

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    I was looking at an AGM battery as well.

    I'm not to sharp on this stuff. How does the lower output alternator not top off a battery? I understand the output maybe lower and take longer. Is this like trying to fill a giant water tank with a garden hose and there's not enough pressure to overcome the reservoir head pressure? Learn me please......
     
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  10. Jan 20, 2020 at 10:06 AM
    #10
    JohnLakeman

    JohnLakeman Burning Internet Daylight

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    I believe the OP is asking about a battery for accessory high current draw which is the context of this discussion. A high output alternator meets the demand of additional accessories and maintains the battery charge level as well. The OEM charging system will charge at 13.5-13.6V and that will maintain the battery without extra accessories. Depending on accessory draw, the original alternator can have a hard time keeping up, and the battery discharges further than it should.

    I have a Northstar 27F, and I keep it on a CTEK charger that automatically "pulse charges" to 14.7V if the float voltage falls below 13.6V. I have no aftermarket accessories, and I expect the Northstar to outlast any conventional lead-acid battery.
     
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  11. Jan 20, 2020 at 10:23 AM
    #11
    Stig

    Stig New Member

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    Your analogy is pretty spot on
     
  12. Jan 22, 2020 at 2:02 PM
    #12
    Bergmen

    Bergmen New Member

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    I'm not sure I understand this. AGM batteries are used across a number of vehicle platforms with no charging issues whatever. Can you be more specific?

    Dan
     
  13. Jan 22, 2020 at 2:28 PM
    #13
    Jrharvey02

    Jrharvey02 New Member

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    You’re not going to run into charging issues by undercharging an AGM, just shortened lifespan and inferior performance compared to what it could be (with proper care). These batteries want 14+ volts trickle charged to them (that’s you feeding the deep cycle in them) and top off at 14.7v, my battery system gets this every night attached to a CTek 7002 charger. A stock tundra can’t give this to them, so you must, if you want peak performance.
     
  14. Jan 22, 2020 at 2:46 PM
    #14
    Bergmen

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    I can find nothing to substantiate this position after searching all over. Do you have some technical reference that shows this to be true?

    Dan
     
  15. Jan 22, 2020 at 2:47 PM
    #15
    Jrharvey02

    Jrharvey02 New Member

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    I hear ya. You could do a typical dual battery setup with standard lead acid batteries, essentially giving you double the power you currently have, that’s something to be content with. I ran that for 1.5 years. You could look into a diode to replace your charging system fuse, which in turn tricks your alt into sending 14+ v through your truck...
    https://www.hkbelect.com/...but again, AGM batts need some trickle charging to stay their best. My system is also solar ready so I can top off when remote, solar controllers are good enough these days they have an AGM setting to give you the 14+ volts. Lots of options...not many are practical...
     
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  16. Jan 22, 2020 at 2:48 PM
    #16
    Jrharvey02

    Jrharvey02 New Member

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  17. Jan 23, 2020 at 9:17 AM
    #17
    Bergmen

    Bergmen New Member

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    Well, I sent an inquiry to the Director of Technical sales at EnerSys (Odyssey and NorthStar) and asked him this question:

    "I recently replaced my stock OEM battery with the NorthStar NSB-AGM27F battery.

    On the Toyota Tundra forum I frequent, there are expressed concerns over the ability of the charging system in my Tundra to provide the proper voltage and current in order to assure maximum life and performance of the NSB-AGM27F battery.

    Do I need to be concerned about this?"

    And here is his response:

    "The only concern you should have is if you have a lot of external loads that will discharge the battery while the engine is not running and/or your added features exceed the amperage output of the alternator. Either of these situations will cause undercharging and sulfation. Under normal operating conditions, there should be no concerns. If you would like to go through your application in more detail, do not hesitate to reach out to me or if you have any other questions, we are happy to help. Welcome to the EnerSys family with your NorthStar purchase!"

    So, I think this pretty much answers my concerns.

    I can provide his contact information to anyone who wants more info on this.

    Dan
     
  18. Jan 23, 2020 at 9:31 AM
    #18
    smslavin

    smslavin Behind a lens...

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    this has been on my list for awhile but, after the big 4 wire upgrade, the thought of getting the alternator out of its location... well... the amount of stuff that has to come off just to reach it... :censored: :frusty: :facepalm:

    it's going to be like giving birth to an elephant and i'm having a hard time getting motivated for that.

    as for the batteries, i'm running dual odyssey pc1500s. i also have 200w of solar but it isn't all hooked up yet.
     
  19. Jan 23, 2020 at 10:03 AM
    #19
    smslavin

    smslavin Behind a lens...

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    phogallen[QUOTED] and ColoradoTJ like this.
  20. Jan 23, 2020 at 1:20 PM
    #20
    Stig

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    It's all over the internet. Did you search agm charging profiles?

    The Northstar agm is a popular model, it's right in the PDF spec sheet. Actually it's also right on top of the actual battery so it's hard to miss. It reads cycle service charge 14.4-14.8V.

    The factory output for the tundra is nowhere close to that
     
  21. Jan 23, 2020 at 1:23 PM
    #21
    Bergmen

    Bergmen New Member

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    Did you even read post #22?
     
  22. Jan 23, 2020 at 1:37 PM
    #22
    Stig

    Stig New Member

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    Yep. Why?

    Reply to that email you received and ask why my Northstar 27f says right on the label to charge at 14.4-14.8V if he's saying it's okay to charge at only 14.0 from the factory Toyota system.

    Let us know his response.

    It's in his interest to sell batteries which sounds like you've already bought one, so he doesn't want that returned and by undercharging it you will need a new one sooner than if charged correctly, so more sales for the battery manufacturers.
     
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  23. Jan 23, 2020 at 1:53 PM
    #23
    Jrharvey02

    Jrharvey02 New Member

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    I wasn’t gonna say it...but since somebody else did, I’ll certainly agree with it. Couldn’t be more spot on.
     
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  24. Jan 23, 2020 at 2:45 PM
    #24
    Bergmen

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    That is for charging the battery with a battery charger, not with your vehicles charging system. Here is Jeremy's contact info, you can ask him directly:

    Jeremy Cordray <jeremy.cordray@NorthstarBattery.com>

    I'm satisfied with his response to my question.

    Dan
     
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  25. Jan 23, 2020 at 3:00 PM
    #25
    smslavin

    smslavin Behind a lens...

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    it's a process. the thread i linked will have a shopping list. if you decide to do all 4, you will need to expand it a bit. i should still have mine somewhere and am more than happy to share should you need it. i do recommend getting everything from ce autoelectrics. cable quality is excellent as is their support.
     
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  26. Jan 25, 2020 at 6:56 AM
    #26
    Jrharvey02

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    phogallen[QUOTED] likes this.
  27. Jan 25, 2020 at 7:56 AM
    #27
    JohnLakeman

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    Since I back into my garage space, and wanted to install the CTEK 7002 semi-permanently on a shelf near a 120V electical outlet, I needed two CTEK 8' extension cords to reach the front of the truck. Instead of using the alligator clips, I soldered/heat shrink a length of extension cord to the supplied eyelet connectors to reach through the radiator support bulkhead and out the front grille.

    With that setup, I don't have to raise the hood to connect the charger...I simply park and plug in. When I use the truck, I have to pass in front of the truck, and I simply unplug and toss the extension cord end out of the way. You can probably figure out how to hide the connector end better than I have.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ADIHUVG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    CTEK Plug In 1.jpg CTEK Plug In 2.jpg
     
  28. Jan 25, 2020 at 8:46 AM
    #28
    COndorian

    COndorian [OP] New Member

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    I'm trying to learn this stuff also.... BUT... I'm not getting it completely. I like the idea of getting an AGM to last longer and power accessories as I continue my build.... Would that mean that I would also have to replace the OEM alternator as well to keep up with the needs of an AGM? Or is there a trickle charger that could supplement the alternator to meet the needs of an AGM battery? Then getting into supplimenting the power situation with solar seems to even deepen the potential for AGM to not be worth it. I'm a novice but I want to learn it and do it right the first time without wasting money I'd rather spend on other things. Then it gets into cost vs. benefit. Is the juice worth the squeeze? THANK YOU for the education!
     
  29. Jan 25, 2020 at 8:49 AM
    #29
    Bergmen

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    No need to do ANYTHING unless you are draining the battery faster than it could be charged during normal driving. If you don't have high draw accessories challenging your charging system, you are good to go. No need for supplemental charging at all unless, like I said, you are draining the battery during operation with giant draw accessories.

    See my post where I contacted Engineer at NorthStar.

    Dan
     
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  30. Jan 25, 2020 at 10:37 AM
    #30
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    I guess it depends on what the future plans are OP. Only accessories I run on my Jeep is a 9500 lb Warn winch and a Ford Taurus 3.8L electric two speed fan (which can draw up to 100A on startup).

    My rebadged Northstar lasted 1.5 years.

    728DB12D-EA1A-463A-B5BC-98E76E5C171A.jpg

    I had a 90A alternator and my fan was set up on a switch for most of that time. Now my fan is ignition on/low speed and high speed with a switch.

    Hopefully my new Walmart battery lasts longer...
     
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