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General Supercharger Thread.

Discussion in 'Performance and Tuning' started by snivilous, Mar 18, 2021.

  1. Jul 11, 2022 at 9:06 AM
    #2431
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    I've yet to tested these extremes first hand but I plan on taking a hose and spraying the front at full blast into the nozzle just to see how water enters the system. Driving through heavy rain appeared to be a non issue; no water entered the box.

    RE: Dust: Stillen tested it for dust out in the sand and they reported no issues presented themselves. I don't know how that could be the case in heavier dust ups where your truck looks like a sugar cookie; I would have liked to have inspected the filter after their test. Light to medium dust probably wont be a problem unless you are following very closely to the lead vehicle which presents its own danger. One of the kits comes with a block off plate for the front;a prefilter "sock" is another option for dust and water though I couldn't tell you what brands are good and if to expect MAF issues. I think you are better prefiltering the nozzle vice the prefiltering the filter in the CAI. The smallest inline filter I found was too long to fit without modification but if you find one that is probably your best option.

    RE: Water: I think very deep water could be an issue but hard to say since the front intake isn't level or straight. It slightly slopes up and to the left from the grille to get into the box. Even so the water will settle at the bottom of the box and presumably drain out. On the stock Stillen set up the fillter sits about three inches from the the box deck. I think you would have to be blasting through a river/stream at speed to get that volume of water to fill the box faster than it drains if that is even possible to get that level of intrusion.
     
    M3Tundra-JK likes this.
  2. Jul 11, 2022 at 10:49 AM
    #2432
    Silver17

    Silver17 Used, but returned and sold as new member

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    Eibach pro 2.0s, toytec progressive mini AAL, ARE CX cap, Airlift bags, Harrop Supercharger, 650cc injectors, 77.5mm pulley, TRD Dual exhaust, J&L catchcan, Powertrax LSD, RRW RR7-H, 305/70r17 Toyo AT3s
    Hmmm, so if I attempt to use this math in my case, the Harrop 80mm pulley is 3.15”, therefore at 1000 RPM it’s at 1,904 RPM, and at 6,000 RPM Redline it’s at 11,430 RPM. Max RPM is 18,000 so it has a lot more revs it could handle for sure. The 1900 with a 2.34” pulley is at 15,348 RPM with an engine speed of 6,000 RPM. Is that right?

    The reason I’m interested was I was trying to better understand this graph and determine at what Engine RPM I could possibly be in that max 70% efficient pocket. I still don’t understand how to fully use the graph though, but it appears there’s a possibility it could be in that range between 4,200 and 11,800 rotor RPMs. That translates to between 2k and over 6k engine RPM which is most of the rev range. The graph is more nuanced than I’m grasping though I’m sure.

    EBBE3545-F9FD-4ECA-8DBA-8402208D99C7.jpg
     
  3. Jul 11, 2022 at 10:53 AM
    #2433
    Silver17

    Silver17 Used, but returned and sold as new member

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    Eibach pro 2.0s, toytec progressive mini AAL, ARE CX cap, Airlift bags, Harrop Supercharger, 650cc injectors, 77.5mm pulley, TRD Dual exhaust, J&L catchcan, Powertrax LSD, RRW RR7-H, 305/70r17 Toyo AT3s
    Also, they expanded this group buy to over 10 people now. I have not seen a limit to the number of people who can buy posted, so if anyone was on the fence and all the spots were taken you can now reconsider.
     
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  4. Jul 11, 2022 at 11:27 AM
    #2434
    snivilous

    snivilous [OP] snivspeedshop.com

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    Without looking at more than your screenshot, it's kind of hard to know I'm reading it right. The main thing I'm confused by is the Y axis shows absolute pressure (I assume, since the lowest is 1 Bar) at the manifold. So assuming this translates directly to the supercharger, you need to look at how much boost you're making (boost psi / 14.7 psi = X bar), then go over and find the rpm and then that tells you your efficiency. What the efficiency ACTUALLY means is another question though--is that just how much input energy is going to waste heat? That would make the most sense: blower at 10k rpm, and I want 1.5Bar at the intake (~7psi boost), so that's 70% efficient so 30% of the horsepower driving the rotors is going into heat. Your previous chart also listed horsepower to run the blower, so using the two you could come up with how much waste heat is generated. Though that previous chart doesn't match up from how I read it (though again is confusing, like is total supercharger energy required parasitic + required? That seems the only way to read it but that is an efficiency around 50% then---- but if the actual rotor efficiency is 70%, then it's not a stretch to think that the entire system efficiency is 50%).

    This is one of those rabbit holes I wouldn't get too caught up in. There are a LOT of variables at play. Don't forget your engine has it's own efficiency curve of hp/fuel that needs to be overlaid. And if you're at WOT @ 1.5Bar then you're actually well outside of the peak rotor efficiency for quite a bit of your rev range. So trying to keep the blower at it's most efficient (if I'm reading it right) is adjusting boost with your rpm. There's a lot of shit at play just at the supercharger system level let alone the entire truck system level. Cool to look at and think about, but extremely complicated and I wouldn't put a lot of faith in the numbers being thrown around once you get into the real world.

    Probably the best take away is that spinning the supercharger faster pumps more air but disproportionately will create more heat after 12k rotor rpm. So if you want a LOT of power, you have diminishing returns the faster you spin it. And yet somewhat ironically, if you're making more boost you actually will be more efficient. The blower seems to want to be loaded up the faster it spins, spinning fast and not a lot of boost is extremely inefficient. Just another confusing variable to add (less boost in some instances can have more power, like discussions about headers, but you could actually be making the rotors less efficient---more power, less boost, more heat).
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2022
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  5. Jul 11, 2022 at 11:47 AM
    #2435
    Silver17

    Silver17 Used, but returned and sold as new member

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    Eibach pro 2.0s, toytec progressive mini AAL, ARE CX cap, Airlift bags, Harrop Supercharger, 650cc injectors, 77.5mm pulley, TRD Dual exhaust, J&L catchcan, Powertrax LSD, RRW RR7-H, 305/70r17 Toyo AT3s
    It is definitely a lot of effort and thinking going down a rabbit hole to not make sense of it in the end. It would require sitting down with an engineer that could explain it for an hour to actually grasp it. It just interests me a little after going through a 5 year mechanical apprenticeship that involved a lot of deep diving into pump and fan curves to answer very similar questions. It seemed like they were teaching us engineering fundamentals more so than how to fix an air conditioner! The amount of knowledge that goes into designing fluid/air moving systems to work properly is pretty insane. I forget most of the formulas at this point, I’d have to crack open my books.

    Understanding how to analyze these graphs would help us make a more informed decision on what size blower is best for our trucks to have the best efficiency between the TVS1900,2300, 2650 and Whipple 2.9. At the end of they day, they all work though. Nerding out a bit is still fun sometimes, in the search for the best setup. All I know at this point is horsepower is fun, and PD blowers are badass!
     
  6. Jul 11, 2022 at 12:13 PM
    #2436
    snivilous

    snivilous [OP] snivspeedshop.com

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    What's also interesting to think about, people say a supercharger adds so much power--but in reality it's first drawing power and then helping generate more power beyond it's parasitic losses and then even more. A 1900 first turns your 381hp into 350hp, then bumps that up to 550hp. The dyno number you see generated by the supercharger isn't really the amount of power the supercharger is adding, just the net gain.
     
  7. Jul 15, 2022 at 3:27 PM
    #2437
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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  8. Jul 16, 2022 at 6:06 PM
    #2438
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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  9. Jul 16, 2022 at 7:07 PM
    #2439
    Silver17

    Silver17 Used, but returned and sold as new member

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    Eibach pro 2.0s, toytec progressive mini AAL, ARE CX cap, Airlift bags, Harrop Supercharger, 650cc injectors, 77.5mm pulley, TRD Dual exhaust, J&L catchcan, Powertrax LSD, RRW RR7-H, 305/70r17 Toyo AT3s
    Very cool video and company. I hope they make a supercharger for the GM 6.6 Gas engine. I think a 2500HD with the 6.6 could be my next truck. Gotta save for that pole barn first though, gotta have room to store this tundra inside. It’s the last of the good ones, gotta keep it.
     
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  10. Jul 17, 2022 at 4:58 AM
    #2440
    dpast88

    dpast88 New Member

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    Question for you gents. Is it a true statement that a stock maggie puts up bigger numbers then a stage one Harrop? HP looks the same with a 80ft-lb torque advantage to the maggie.
     
  11. Jul 17, 2022 at 6:30 AM
    #2441
    Silver17

    Silver17 Used, but returned and sold as new member

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    I guess it depends where you get your numbers. A lot depends on the tune and Dyno. Magnuson claims all their figures at the crank. Neither an untuned stage 1 or the provided magnuson tune are optimal and should probably be something you upgrade either way. That said, the best apples to apples comparison I’ve seen was by DAP. Same truck, same dyno, same tuner. He just tried several pulley sizes on the Harrop to compare. With it being spun up faster, I wouldn’t be too surprised if the magnuson made a little more down low torque compared to the 85mm pulley Harrop. It would take analyzing these hard to read graphs to really make that call.

    5EC20140-057B-4C33-9E38-13826BE9104B.jpg
     
  12. Jul 17, 2022 at 6:55 AM
    #2442
    dpast88

    dpast88 New Member

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    Great info thanks!
     
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  13. Jul 17, 2022 at 7:09 AM
    #2443
    reywcms

    reywcms New Member

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    The old man’s Maggy blower tundra has out run a few harrops. Not sure why or what but lots of variables. Tuning plays a huge factor as mentioned. Can’t go wrong with either setup
     
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  14. Jul 17, 2022 at 7:14 AM
    #2444
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas What?

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    Whatever this forum told me to do
    This

    both are very good

    the tune is the separator.

    To repeat the above…. The harrop runs cooler due to larger inter cooling.

    but at <600hp. Both are essentially equal
     
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  15. Jul 17, 2022 at 7:38 AM
    #2445
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    The Harrop brakes had my attention
     
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  16. Jul 18, 2022 at 5:03 AM
    #2446
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas What?

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    Whatever this forum told me to do
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  17. Jul 18, 2022 at 5:41 AM
    #2447
    Bo-Hunter

    Bo-Hunter I like fast

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    Typically Fords lose a little more than the Toyotas in the drivetrain, also running 37's is probably another 30 to 50 hp loss so I would guess in 550 RWHP, 575 would be nice just not sure what they did with the gearing yet. My Long Travel Tundra with 37's dynoed 509 RWHP and 521 FP of Torque at rear wheels in 90 degree high humidity temps recently and I'm confident the Ford will surpass those #'s.
     
  18. Jul 18, 2022 at 6:03 AM
    #2448
    reywcms

    reywcms New Member

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    Not sure but every supercharged ford I’ve owned (cobras-lightnings) the simple aftermarket mods will make it some great power. I also think it’ll be under rated
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2022
  19. Jul 18, 2022 at 7:04 AM
    #2449
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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  20. Jul 18, 2022 at 7:04 AM
    #2450
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas What?

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    Whatever this forum told me to do
    I think I found a cause for the Relay issue on my IC

    you know how Toyota uses those crappy positive battery clamps on the terminals? I think there is only a 50% coverage ratio on the positive terminal.

    so....I had a bunch of corrosion. well, even a tad of corrosion will drop amperage on these shitty terminals...My '06 Seq suffered this every 2 years.

    so...my battery up and died. it was the stock battery. I got it in May '20.

    got a new battery. (no, it's not AGM, it's a regular damn battery from O'rielly.)

    I put those felt red & green pole diapers on it and cleaned the terminals to surgical cleanliness....torqued it all down, then sprayed it with oil that dries like ear wax.


    I'm thinking the combination of poor connection & Africa heat killed it.
     
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  21. Jul 18, 2022 at 7:42 AM
    #2451
    YotaMan

    YotaMan Silver Bullet

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    20190515_131746.jpg
     
  22. Jul 18, 2022 at 7:44 AM
    #2452
    reywcms

    reywcms New Member

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    Good to know! Have you added new terminals? I'm running the ones from SDHQ.
     
  23. Jul 18, 2022 at 7:44 AM
    #2453
    reywcms

    reywcms New Member

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    I've got an idea lol

    2022-07-18_07-40-21.jpg
     
  24. Jul 18, 2022 at 7:45 AM
    #2454
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 Looks clean even when its dirty!

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    Kinda shocked with your choice to replace it with a regular battery. I hope you at least got one of those sealed "maintenance free" batteries, seems like would have been an easy decision to get something that wont corrode the terminals if that was the source of an issue. Granted, those little felt things do work pretty well, but dang....all those preformance upgrades, but no battery upgrades?
     
  25. Jul 18, 2022 at 7:46 AM
    #2455
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas What?

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    Whatever this forum told me to do
    I will soon.

    I did on my old sequoia.

    Gotta summon my old car stereo mojo.
     
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  26. Jul 18, 2022 at 8:00 AM
    #2456
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas What?

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    Whatever this forum told me to do
    and...we were on our way to Rudy's to get some BBQ vittles...it was 95 degrees out. the Tundra died on the driveway - blocking all the other cars. Funny #1

    so we could only manage to get the Tesla out, yes, the battery car. Funny #2

    then juuuusst as we pulled out...the wife says...didn't this happen in the Sequoia Funny #3


    maybe it's time to upgrade all this crap. I will heed your advice.
     
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  27. Jul 18, 2022 at 9:18 AM
    #2457
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    Nice. How is the water and dust? Notice any reduced temps?
     
  28. Jul 18, 2022 at 9:56 AM
    #2458
    Downytide

    Downytide New Member

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    It's a cool truck, expensive, but cool, I believe MSRP starts at $110k, most TRX runs mid to high 12s stock in ideal situation, so I think a Raptor R will do the same, I still think gen 2.5 looks better when widebody is added, I like those 37s, those are C range KO2s and only weight 67lbs.

    I don't like the stock shorty headers, I would probably seriously consider one if they offer them in Supercab (access cab) with short bed like they did with gen 1 and gen 2.

    I do wonder how smooth the launch will go, lots of small covid quality seem to be on the 14th gen, it makes 3rd gen Tundra launch seem smooth.
     
  29. Jul 18, 2022 at 10:03 AM
    #2459
    reywcms

    reywcms New Member

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    Yea, I'm also curious on that delivery. I heard a rumor Ford is trying to limit dealer mark-ups but can't confirm that. May try and reach out to a buddy who owns Team Ford in Vegas see what the deal is.
     
  30. Jul 18, 2022 at 10:08 AM
    #2460
    Downytide

    Downytide New Member

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    Probably this method:
    - Sell truck to friend
    - Friend drove 500 miles in a weekend, sold back to dealer in 2 weeks
    - dealer put $40k of ADM says its available now lol.

    I do wonder how well the transfercase will hold out, TRX had years of practice run with the trackhawk, and trackhawk had transfer case issue for the first 2 years, not to mention the engine has been refined for a while before being stuffed into the truck/suvs.

    And at that price, I feel like they should've gone with some 3.0 shocks, at that price you may as well.

    OR they should've stuffed supercharged 7.3 as per internet bench racers recommended.
     
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