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General Supercharger Thread.

Discussion in 'Performance and Tuning' started by snivilous, Mar 18, 2021.

  1. Jul 7, 2022 at 6:31 AM
    #2401
    Silver17

    Silver17 Used, but returned and sold as new member

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    No, non-flex fuel.
     
  2. Jul 7, 2022 at 8:26 PM
    #2402
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    Fuel delete mod Cup holder upgrade
    So...
    I did a MFing thing...

    I swapped in the Stillen box but kept the ProSpeed 4.5inch intake. Had to Macgyver some parts to get the Stillen/Prospeed Frankenstein lovechild to work. Waiting on some parts to dial it in and fully seal the box.

    At operating temps I'm seeing it sit around ~+30 over ambient; temps with the Prospeed were about +40. The temps definitely drop fast when coming out of an idle/traffic. When I say fast I mean they plummet to that range 30 over range fairly quickly especially when getting to highway speeds; ProSpeed didn't behave that way at least not without the SABM/enlargement.

    I still have some work to do to fully seal the airbox and double check everything else is airtight. So far it is looking like some of the engine bay heat is actually soaking into the intercooler reservoir; whoever called this is probably correct. Edit: Could also be relay issues that others have experienced.

    Reused the same K&N oiled filter that was installed on the ProSpeed and now I'm in the P0101 club. We'll se how this shakes out.
     
  3. Jul 7, 2022 at 8:43 PM
    #2403
    reywcms

    reywcms New Member

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    Too many mods to come
    You added the stillin ram air portion also?
     
  4. Jul 7, 2022 at 8:46 PM
    #2404
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    Fuel delete mod Cup holder upgrade
    Yep
     
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  5. Jul 7, 2022 at 9:40 PM
    #2405
    reywcms

    reywcms New Member

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    Nice, I’m thinking of doing the same with the maggy intake box.
     
  6. Jul 8, 2022 at 3:10 AM
    #2406
    Bo-Hunter

    Bo-Hunter I like fast

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    Sweet I have been thinking about doing something similar now for several weeks Only somehow using this 4.5” inch MAF tube off eBay E6586C58-FDF1-4028-820D-79C0C2CD5B23.jpg
     
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  7. Jul 8, 2022 at 3:23 AM
    #2407
    Silver17

    Silver17 Used, but returned and sold as new member

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    I am surprised the Prospeed intake uses those K&N filters. Everything I’ve read says P0101 code and a K&N when supercharged go together like peas a carrots. I’d try cleaning the sensor with the correct cleaner and if possible find an AFE dryflow filter that can replace the K&N. I’ve only driven it a few times since cleaning my MAF but no codes or issues to report since doing so.
     
  8. Jul 8, 2022 at 3:25 AM
    #2408
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas What?

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    Whatever this forum told me to do
    1. does the P0101 mean you are max'ing the MAF? are you monitoring the MAF with the SG3?

    2. Re IAT:

    I'm saying this to address heat soak or something...(I'm stock airbox - wix filter)

    Start the truck this morning 80 ambient (90% humidity). IAT = 83

    cruise the way to the HWY 5miles....IAT = 104 no boost, just easy driving

    get to work 28 miles...IAT = 114 ambient = 83 temp delta = 31


    now, when I leave work it will be 95 ambient.
    I'll bet my IAT will be ~135-140 delta will be ~40


    so, not only are we dealing with simple heat soak. but, we are also dealing with the limitations of ambient air temp. mix in Houston humidity, and you have a damn nice equation.


    when the I/C pump stops, you will know.....your IAT will be ~165 degrees.:bananadead:
     
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  9. Jul 8, 2022 at 3:26 AM
    #2409
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas What?

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    Whatever this forum told me to do
    my '96 4runner did the same thing....oily ass filter waxed up my MAF.
     
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  10. Jul 8, 2022 at 5:08 AM
    #2410
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    Fuel delete mod Cup holder upgrade
    If you go with the Stillen that tube may be too short. Also the angle may be a problem too but that can be alleviated with the right couplers.
     
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  11. Jul 8, 2022 at 1:15 PM
    #2411
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    You could probably roll your own. Not a lot of room with a catch can, the power steering(?) and the washer fluid. Now I know why Stillen made their design choice on the nozzle.
     
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  12. Jul 8, 2022 at 1:38 PM
    #2412
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    Yes thank you for point this out. I am tracking the same issues from what I've been reading about the filter. Some of the old Stillen threads highlight this too.

    I've had no issues with this mounted to the ProSpeed box but it could be the code took a while to pop up. The Stillen came with a dry filter I can run temporarily to see if that fixes the issue.
     
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  13. Jul 8, 2022 at 1:45 PM
    #2413
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    Thank you for the data points. This helps frame expected behavior from a similar set up.

    RE: MAF I'll check the MAF voltages on my next test drive. I'm thinking its one of few things trippin the MAF codes: leak or oiled filter (thanks @Silver17 ). Maxing the MAF did not occur to me with the open design of the old box; cooler air could feasibly account for the delta. Would also mean I would need to get the tune tweaked.

    RE: IAT I was seeing similar to slight higher numbers with the PS. I think my worse numbers were ~+50 Ambient. It usually settles in around ~30 and slowly trends to 40 over ambient. Once it peaked it rarely dropped down.

    On the first run with the new set up would drop to to about ~30 over ambient immediately and stay there.

    I'll dick around with it some more tonight and this weekend. Tempted to do the SABM If I pull the box out again but I need to get the MAF issues sorted out first.
     
  14. Jul 8, 2022 at 2:39 PM
    #2414
    Silver17

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    I think the MAF is probably just a good thing to clean on the regular especially supercharged. Think about it, most of us are using less restrictive air filters and the supercharger is constantly sucking more air in across the MAF Hotwire as long as the engine is running as compared to a NA engine. Makes sense it would get dirty faster.
     
  15. Jul 8, 2022 at 3:05 PM
    #2415
    HonorNotInner

    HonorNotInner I speak the 3rd most eyetalian

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    Added money to it.
    Ya I agree, I get random 101 codes under normal acceleration also
     
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  16. Jul 8, 2022 at 4:22 PM
    #2416
    M3Tundra-JK

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    Pic!
     
  17. Jul 8, 2022 at 4:46 PM
    #2417
    Silver17

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    reywcms likes this.
  18. Jul 8, 2022 at 5:56 PM
    #2418
    Saltyhero13

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    I can try and post some pics tomorrow if I get a chance to finish up. Will list out parts I used too.
     
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  19. Jul 8, 2022 at 6:55 PM
    #2419
    reywcms

    reywcms New Member

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  20. Jul 8, 2022 at 7:08 PM
    #2420
    Silver17

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    Think fast! Only 2 spots left! Just picture your Brutal supercharged 5.7 twisting those stock rubber mounts into submission and you’ll be ready to order. :)
     
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  21. Jul 9, 2022 at 11:53 AM
    #2421
    reywcms

    reywcms New Member

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    Anyone have the part number for the AFE dry that fits that maggy intake box?
     
  22. Jul 9, 2022 at 12:47 PM
    #2422
    Wynnded

    Wynnded What MPG...

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    31-10146 better check my math though. This is the one I have in my TRD branded intake, made by Magnuson, as we all know.
     
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  23. Jul 9, 2022 at 4:17 PM
    #2423
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    "Behold! The Frankenstillen":
    Frankenstillen.jpg

    A couple of things to note:
    1. Its a tight fit with little room for relief. I secured the Stillen using the rear most anchor point. You may be better off using the mid point to allow the box to pivot a tiny bit. You wont get much relief since the box presses against the wiper fluid reservoir.
    2. The Radium catch can (PCV) and the front "ram air" intake partially occupy the same physical envelop. I ordered the crank case catch can bracket to shift the PCV can over towards the driver-side position.
    3. The Stillen box has approximately a ~6.5inch hole for the intake. You'll have to reduce this to your pipe's diameter. Looking at the Stillen's design, their "stock" intake doesn't form an air tight seal.
    4. I chose a no drill option to reduce the hole. Lots of ways to skin this cat. Parts I used are:
      1. Door seal to line the Stillen hole and press against the duct flange (next part)Door Seal.jpg
      2. A duct connector flange to fit inside the hole. Must be larger than the diameter of your pipe but smaller than the Stillen's hole Duct Flange.jpg
      3. A roof pipe flasher (rubber boot) to seal the intake pipe and flange Roof pipe flash.jpg
      4. A pipe/hose clamp to secure the flange and boot in a specific position relative to the opening of the Stillen. Hose Clamp.jpg
    5. So if we were looking into the box without a lid, the flange would fit into the door sealed hole with the fat side inside and the neck going through the hole. The intake pipe would fit into the flasher and into the flange. The flasher would fit over the lip of the flange. The flange and the flasher sandwich the box in between them. The pipe/hose clamp hold the flasher and flange in position.
    6. For "snorts and giggles" I wrapped the metal intake pipe with insulation to keep temps down while idling in traffic. If you are mostly highway/track this won't make a difference for you.
    7. If you order the Stillen with the block off plate you may find it difficult to get the open plate between the two coupler hoses, especially if you have an aftermarket grille, catch cans, etc. I ended up getting a 4inch long silicone hose with a 3 inch ID. A 3inch long hose was slightly too short for me but may work for you.
    Bonus, my neighbor came over to check things out, he's into nail art:
    Morning.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2022
  24. Jul 9, 2022 at 4:23 PM
    #2424
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    Forgot to mention if you are concerned about water and dust intrusion from the front you may be better off putting a prefilter somewhere over the opening vs. one over the intake filter. I think this is what was tripping my MAF.

    You could also do something similar to this:
    [​IMG]

    It uses a duck bill valve to pull water out of intakes on larger vehicles/machines.

    Edit: I've seen 3 inch ID couplers with 1 inch BOV necks. The trick is dialing in the duck bill.
    Intake with BOV.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2022
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  25. Jul 9, 2022 at 8:57 PM
    #2425
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    Cleared the MAF after cleaning, removing prefilter and sealing everything up properly. Kept the oiled K&N in since, as far as I could tell, it wasn't an issue in the PS config.

    Fuck yeah @Silver17 for the MAF cleaning tip. No sign of P0101 as an issue so far.

    Still getting ~40s to ~50s in traffic/idle but getting mid 20s to low 30s once I get to highway (over 50) speed. Best sustained was +28 ambient @ around 65MPH; lowest # I've seen since the Harrop.

    Not discounting the pump yet. Going to test and try and reposition the relay tomorrow.

    Planning on running more tests with remote temperature sensors inside the box. Also want to test this in the heavy rain. Filter with the Frankenstillen sits further back and the front intake isn't straight so I don't expect a lot of water to enter the box let alone soak the filter, however, I could see running through standing water causing issues. Doubt it would soak the filter in that case. Dust on the other hand...

    Overall I'm impressed with how rapidly temps drop but not seeing anything significantly lower than nonStillen boxes. I wasn't expecting a big drop considering the front intake is fairly small but I'm getting better numbers than the Prospeed without the SABM. MPGs look improved too even after unplugging the battery for a while.

    So far I think this is a good alternative to doing SABM for those that don't want to cut the truck's wall.
     
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  26. Jul 11, 2022 at 4:42 AM
    #2426
    Silver17

    Silver17 Used, but returned and sold as new member

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    I’d really like to know the RPM our supercharger rotors are spinning at with each pulley size. You know….for nerding purposes.

    221AD63C-BB51-4635-A3E3-A0A22E253D0A.jpg
     
  27. Jul 11, 2022 at 7:39 AM
    #2427
    snivilous

    snivilous [OP] snivspeedshop.com

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    It's a 1:1 drive from the pulley to the rotors. So the rpm is crank diameter/pulley diameter * engine rpm.

    From a quick googling the stock crank is ~6". So to do some math with my Magnuson 1900:

    Stock 2.45" pulley: 6/2.45*1000 = 2448rpm @ 1000rpm for the engine.
    URD 2.345" pulley: 6/2.345*1000 = 2558rpm @ 1000rpm.

    The supercharger displaces 1.9L of air per revolution so is pumping 4651 L/min @ 1000rpm from the engine.

    And correct me if I'm wrong, but at 1000rpm that's actually 500 power strokes per minute out of the engine. So that's 4651 L/min of supercharger flow being added to 500 * 5.7L = 2850 L/min of flow from the engine (because 4 stroke, so need two crank revolutions to suck air in/expel exhaust, etc.).

    So at 1000rpm (which is really a moot point since it's positive displacement, so it's just a linear ratio) with a TVS1900 and stock pulley you have:
    1000rpm from the engine
    2448rpm from the blower
    4651 L/min from the blower
    2850 L/min from the engine
    2.44x blower/engine ratio
    1.63x blower/engine displacement

    That doesn't include efficiency losses such as temperature, flow rate, friction (rotors, bearings, etc.), and other factors. We also know that boost does not strictly correlate to power, ie more power can happen with less boost.

    Take the following with a grain of salt:

    Comparing displacement at face value:
    1.63 * 14.7psi = 24psi at the intake manifold
    24psi - 14.7psi = 9.3psi higher than atmospheric

    I'm not sure if it's that simple, but that would tend to make sense since we know the Magnuson is rated for ~7psi at sea level. Once you factor in efficiency losses, those numbers would make sense.

    We also know (or I've been told at least) that there is a non-linear efficiency curve to the supercharger. How I read that is your displacement (L/min) is not linear to rpm. Which matches that chart posted above where we see a non-linear curve when comparing two superchargers despite a linear change in displacement. I was told that is why a 2.345" pulley can see such an increase in boost over a 2.45" pulley despite being only a 5% change in diameter. I don't entirely believe that, but it would explain how you get a 25% boost increase for a 5% pulley change.

    Point being, there's obviously a lot of other factors at play and the instant something becomes non-linear there is nothing intuitive about how it scales.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2022
  28. Jul 11, 2022 at 7:42 AM
    #2428
    Downytide

    Downytide New Member

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    Aren't you going to be worried about the dust/water? I'm worried about the stillen box being so opened to the environment that dust and water is going to be an issue for those of us on trails/watercrossing.
     
  29. Jul 11, 2022 at 8:49 AM
    #2429
    reywcms

    reywcms New Member

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    Well currently I'm more worried about dust and water from having no fender liner since putting aftermarket adv fenders on. I added a pre filter but will need a liner made. I could also add a pre filter sock to that Stillen setup.
     
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  30. Jul 11, 2022 at 8:52 AM
    #2430
    M3Tundra-JK

    M3Tundra-JK New Member

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    I ran the larger front opening AFE ram air intake on my s/c Tacoma and never had an issue with water. Filter may get dirtier faster, but that's really all. And if you're going in water crossings that deep probably should just consider a snorkel instead
     
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