General Supercharger Thread.

A few things I will say about the CAI @nobodyintexas is:

1. Wheel hop is real - you have caltracs and more suitable tires, may not guarantee you can put the extra power to the ground if you do upgrade. Still worth it for towing/hauling however.
   
2. Given your great MPG numbers I don't think you are running with a lot of inefficiencies in normal operation; under boost may be different but it would be hard to tell without logging boosted runs. The larger intake seems to be a bigger factor for operating on the higher end of the RPM; doesn't mean you wont see gains. Cooler air means happier ECU; bigger safety margins.
   
3. ProSpeed CAI: Besides price (unless you fab your own) If there are truly issues with the box I think they can be mitigated by some minor improvements IMO

 

Just to clarify, caltracs help with keep the wheels planted AND towing? I haven't looked into them a whole lot but they are on my list since I'll be towing in the mountains. Have the sos 2/4" drop, TRD Sway bars, and helper bags all sitting in the garage. Will be adding the coach builder shackles to it also.

 

I don’t think they’re going to help for Towing. For that reason I’m going with RAS. I’m giving up some axle wrap mitigation for some improved suspension. Not perfect but better than nothing. Something to consider is SDHQ bars. They are pricier but they articulate better

 

1. Agree - I spin easy now. no wheel hop tho'. The Caltracs do the job.
2. good point - I don't ever get to >5000 rpms.
3. Agree - the PS intake is worth the juice.

Since I rarely get close to the MAF limit, I don't see a need for more air. I think I may have touched 300-350 a couple times.
my quandary still stands....is the prospeed cooler? or is it simply bigger.
I think the Prospeed does what is needed - it allows more air to pass via the stock MAF.


you make good observations...my driving style is probably not beneficial to the bigger intake.


I looked at both our graphs...you can clearly see your setup pulling away after 5k rpm. where mine starts to lay over.

 

they sorta help for towing...under pulling/heavy load the diff will move a LOT less - or not even at all. thus saving the U-joint.

 

"Is the delta worth?" is a good question.

I'll keep monitor temps as I continue driving.

So far I think it is cooler (my baseline may be flawed) even with it's open unsealed design.

Will report back when I get a larger sample of drives to look at.

 

As a data point for comparison, my IAT with the filter located in the fender (read at the MAF temperature sensor) is 4 degrees Fahrenheit above ambient when cruising.

 

@ViktorG When I was on the stock MAF. I had the same delta. Now that I’m on that harrop thing I read a much hotter temp.

I’m guessing you did not use the harrop MAF bypass?

 

Harrop stage 1 still with TRD intake (came with truck). Air temps are usually 40 over ambient as viewed on Scangauge2.

SABM, then install wideband, HP Tuners, stage 2 parts are on my short list once I get my truck back. It was rear ended at end of April and still not even close to being repaired.

 

I'm starting to believe this IAT increase is heat soak. I'm not bitchin'. hear me out. (isn't there a Harrop guy on this forum? with the Sequoia?)

because, it was a crisp, delightfully humid 77 degrees on this mornings drive, it took a few miles more to plateau @ 132 degrees IAT.

this jives with @Saltyhero13 cooler ambient temps.

why doesn't it cool back down when not in boost? or cruising while not in boost?

is it really the rotating assembly getting hot?

or

or

is it the 2 intercooler bricks getting heated up by sitting directly on top of the intake/heads? (Maggies single I/C is further above the motor - I wonder if there is a lower temp diff?)

the IAT heat increase is in tight correlation to the engine heating up.

& because I had to wait for a Train this morning for 10 minutes...I watched the IAT....it did not go down. ponderous.

or is the Harrop temp sensor in the wrong damn location?


and....if all of this is true....what difference, if any, does a cold air intake, on a blown engine, make on temp?

the Prospeed is about MORE air. and it does a damn good job at that. but, don't get balled up on temp.


sure looks like I was bitchin'.

 

There is but I don't think he has posted in a while @Chris@Harrop
https://www.tundras.com/threads/2016-harrop-supercharged-sequoia-build.92470/

 

I think that heat is just inherent with the design of the blower - Harrop or Magnuson. I had a Chevy truck with the Maggie MP112 on it making 14 psi. It also made a lot of heat. I tried everything to get the IATs down. Started with a 1.5 gallon intercooler tank, added meth, relocated the air intake, bigger HX, etc. The only thing that showed any significant improvement was the Killer Chiller. It was the last thing I added to the truck and it consistently lowered the IATs. I went from 40-50 degrees above ambient, at cruise, to about 15. It would still climb on a pull, but recover quicker and lower.

However, the install was a pain, had to buy a crimper and make my own AC lines and in the end it kept killing AC compressors. I think the problem there was that the truck was an orifice tube setup and the KC was an expansion valve setup. I went through 2 compressors in a year and the guy that bought the truck had to add another soon after purchase.

When I added the Harrop to my Tundra I promised myself that I was going to add it as it is, maybe add the Stage 2 pulley and leave it alone. There is a lot of room under the hood for a larger HX tank as compared to the Chevy. Don't think I haven't thought about it, but I am not going there. My truck is lifted 4" on 35s and is a DCLB so it will never be a dragster. But it is a little more exciting now!

 

There’s a lot here but I can try and answer some of these based on my understanding. Some of them were already but maybe you didn’t realize it. I previously explained how ALL of the air whether it goes into the engine or out the bypass goes through the rotors which perform work on the air and make it hotter. The blower NEVER STOPS compressing air even at idle, it may just bypass the flow of it from going into the engine. If the rotors are spinning, it’s compressing air. The air increases temperature as the pressure increases. An increase in pressure always means an increase in temperature in the same volume! Look up Gay-Lussacs law. No way around this. The sensor location on the Harrop is reading this air which is after the intercooler bricks and before it enters the engine. This is ideal.

The Harrop runs cooler IATs period. Under DAPs back to back Dyno testing from a magnuson to a Harrop their IATs were 20 degrees cooler during the 105 degree day. Magnuson doesn’t use a sensor connected to the OBD2 system after the intercooler bricks but only at the MAF, so without a tuning shops instruments we don’t have access to that info, so I’ll take DAPs testing at its word.

Sitting at a stand still will make the IATs Increase not decrease. There is little flow across the heat exchanger when parked and the stagnant air in the engine bay heats up the intake and thus transfers that heat to the air in the intake, which is also moving slower in the tube therefore absorbing more heat and raising its delta.

The Harrop having the sensor reading the ACTUAL temp of the air entering the engine (after the intercoolers) is the correct location and is purely for benefit. It’s telling it how it is, not a false IAT. The ECU knows the real IAT it’s working with then, for further adjusting fueling/timing etc. to prevent knock and maximize power. It’s basically getting a BS intake temp with the magnuson reading the temp at the MAF (way cooler reading as this is pre- air compression). This if anything would lead to more confusion for the ECU since it’s expecting cooler intake air, but the IAT entering the engine is actually much higher which could contribute to knock and the ECU having to unexpectedly dial things back to prevent it.

I did my best, hopefully some of that makes sense.

 

I am smarter after reading that. thanks. @Silver17

the sitting still part makes complete sense. thx.

 

So now I need an oversized heat exchanger tank? I know ProSpeed makes one but I've heard the design wasn't very good. Someone else is apparently in the process of making one but haven't heard any updates on it lately.

 

This reminds of when I used to build 03-04 cobras and lightnings. Larger heat exchanger tanks, larger intercooler pumps all help mitigate heat soak and temps. More fluid and volume. Might be time to scroll the old rolodex and see about a custom intercooler tank lol.

 

A larger coolant reservoir will do nothing to lower fluid temps and IATs. All it will do is take a whole 2 minutes longer to inevitably get to same temperature as with a smaller reservoir and also consequently take longer to cool down. Then you also have a higher volume of coolant sitting in a highly heat conductive metal tank in a hot engine bay which will only make it warmer.

A larger system coolant capacity would only be beneficial if you were also installing a much larger and efficient front mounted intercooler with a larger pump (if more flow was needed) for greater heat rejection. A larger reservoir does not increase the ability of the front mounted intercooler to reject heat. Just like in air conditioning, much of the advances in system efficiency revolve around making the outdoor coil (heat rejection coil) larger and more efficient.

 

Yes, correct in conjunction with a larger front mounted intercooler (heat exchanger) dual pass etc. Maybe a larger aftermarket one for a cts-v

 

Doing some extended city driving I was hitting the ~40 degree over ambient threshold or slightly higher.

Temps start to drop a bit with anything over 35MPH. The delta between IAT and ambient gets smaller at higher speeds.

I suspect a second SABM hole would have to be larger than the 3inch normally done; more of an issue if one were to attempt to seal the ProSpeed box and not reintroduce airflow constraints.

Air temp does play a role in efficiency; Holdener had a great short video comparison with different sized intercoolers and how temps changed HP. I think in the same video he talks about heat and knock.

 

I think this is a problem with roots style blowers (TVS seems to be a hybrid inbetween of roots and screw) and how the air is handled through the blower. Efficiencies go up as you transition from roots to screw.

 

Very nice write up. Thank you for taking the time to lay it all out.

 

my initial point about the Prospeed intake & heat.....so the intake temp does not matter that much...it's going hit the NORMAL heat cycle of these blowers. which is massive.
Compression = heat.

a couple of degrees will not make a material difference.

 

Yes and it is hard to measure how much is the impact of the CAI and how much is the Harrop Intercooler. Both will benefit from airflow. So many other variables too.

I look at it as eliminating a constraint (as you pointed out) and keeping temps down to keep the ECU happy (lower knock).

I've been eyeballing one of the many vented hoods, need to figure if the bay builds enough pressure to warrant one. Don't want to deal with the dustbowl effect either.

 

FYI, stillen replied this morning and said they'd sell just the front grill intake part by itself.

 

We had a discussion in the tacomaworld s/c thread about vented hoods. Lots of us have other s/c vehicles and I think the conclusion was most that came factory s/c have reverse style center vents on the hood just after where the radiator would be. I was also looking at reverse center vents that would sit directly above s/c. There are quite a few inserts for this application, but requires cutting your hood up

 

intriguing...

 

When you say reverse style are you saying vent hole pointing back or forward?

 

Nice! PM me details

 

The ones that point back towards the windshield. Supposed to help *PULL* air out of the engine bay.

Here's one example I researched for my M3: https://trackspecmotorsports.com/bmw-e46-m3-hood-center-louver-vent

This kit includes the center heat extracting vent for the BMW E46 M3 only.
Designed specifically for M3 hood lines and low pressure zones behind the radiator and above the wheel arches.

• Optimized louver design to maximize extraction flow velocities within a vehicle in motion
• Reduces under hood pressure delta to reduce front end lift and increase net vehicle downforce.
• Significantly reduces under hood temperatures by extracting heat and allowing fresh cold air to enter the engine bay.
• Maximize life of engine accessories by reducing overall operating temperature.
• Increases dense, cold air flow through radiator to promote lower coolant temperatures.
• Louver backbone design maintains hood structural rigidity.
• Contoured to fit your specific hood curve.

 

None to really PM. Just shoot them an email and ask! I haven't gotten a price because I'm still deciding how I'll move forward with the intake kmillen@stillen.com