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ADS Coilover topping out?

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by bicfever, Feb 17, 2021.

  1. Feb 17, 2021 at 11:42 AM
    #1
    bicfever

    bicfever [OP] New Member

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    This is my first post so hopefully this works. I have ADS 2.5 coilovers on my truck and I have been getting a loud slam when the suspension droops. I am assuming this is the coilovers topping out, but it seems to happen way too easily and is way too violent. There is nothing hitting the coilovers at full droop so it isn't another part making contact. The ride height is about 3" over stock. I spoke to Matt at MCM and he said it is normal. Also spoke with Tyler at ADS and he said they might need a rebuild or the nitrogen is low. I'm not totally familiar with how the nitrogen works by I thought the idea is to put pressure on the compression stroke of the shock to slow it down, does nitrogen also affect the rebound stroke? I have never had this issue with stock or other aftermarket coilovers in other trucks. Does this seem normal to everyone? Do king and fox coilovers do this as well? I can't seem to upload a video but here are some photos of where the preload is set.

    IMG_4908.jpg
    IMG_4909.jpg
    IMG_4366.jpg
     
  2. Feb 17, 2021 at 11:50 AM
    #2
    bicfever

    bicfever [OP] New Member

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  3. Feb 17, 2021 at 12:00 PM
    #3
    SC_TRD

    SC_TRD Big BASTRD 4x4 Enthusiast

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    4 seconds in on the video, is that the Slam? That definitely sounds violent and not right.
     
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  4. Feb 17, 2021 at 12:03 PM
    #4
    frichco228

    frichco228 Valued Member

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    Not a great sound for sure. Almost makes me wonder if the stock is too short and you hear the clunk at full droop, shock trying to be extended beyond its limits.

    I would not consider any clunk like that coming from a front end normal. I have had several lifted vehicles and they were as quiet as stock, unless something was loose or broken.

    The fact that ADS said you may need to rebuild the shocks seems to point in the direction of a shock problem. Hope you get it sorted out. I am not into the "re-buildable shocks" that so many love. Give me an install for forget it shock and I will just replace them if they go bad. On a positive note, truck looks great!
     
  5. Feb 17, 2021 at 12:04 PM
    #5
    bicfever

    bicfever [OP] New Member

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    Yes, 4 seconds in. It does it again at about 12 seconds in over a tiny bump. I understand that adding preload doesn't help this situation, but it doesn't seem right to me either. Also, the coilovers might look rough in the photos but I'm on the east coast. They are only two years old with about 20k miles on them with pretty light offroading compared to what they are designed for.
     
  6. Feb 17, 2021 at 12:16 PM
    #6
    13TundraRW

    13TundraRW New Member

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    MCM UCA, MCM Shackles, 2.5 ADS C/O, Durobumps Front, Deaver U748, 2.5 ADS Bypasses, Wheelers/Timbren bumps rear, SoftTop
    You said you had them on for 2 years. Was this happening new or did this just start to happen?
     
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  7. Feb 17, 2021 at 12:45 PM
    #7
    bicfever

    bicfever [OP] New Member

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    It has only started happening recently. Last summer I went to a 285/75/18 tire size and added about 1/4" of preload to the coilovers. The ride height changed from 2.5 inches to 3 inches over stock. You can kind of see the mark of where they used to be in the photos. It didn't make this noise until about week ago though. The temps have dropped recently so maybe that has affected the shock oil and dampening?
     
  8. Feb 17, 2021 at 12:49 PM
    #8
    snivilous

    snivilous snivspeedshop.com

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    Nitrogen is in the shock to stop the piston cavitating, the nitrogen pressures a (different) piston which then applies pressure to the shock oil and tries to prevent it from cavitation. If you've run low on nitrogen, or if your nitrogen has gotten into the oil and aerated it, then both your compression and rebound will be compromised and the shock will be "blown". If it started happening recently, I would suspect that is the case and you should get them rebuilt. It won't hurt them necessarily to keep driving with blown shocks (obviously lots of people drive around with blown shocks) so it's not like there's a rush to pull them apart. New seals and hardware should be like $60, then you'll have to find someone or do it yourself (easy to do, lots of videos if you're inclined to try it) and rebuild them.
     
  9. Feb 17, 2021 at 1:26 PM
    #9
    bicfever

    bicfever [OP] New Member

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    Would I be able to tell if this is the case just by checking my nitrogen pressure?
     
  10. Feb 17, 2021 at 1:40 PM
    #10
    snivilous

    snivilous snivspeedshop.com

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    It could be telling but not necessarily a guarantee, for instance if you've had nitrogen leak out but not into the oil you might have lower pressure but the shock may still function fine. Now if you check pressure and there is no pressure, that explains everything, so it is worth a shot.

    You run the risk of bleeding too much nitrogen since there's a small amount in the shock to begin with, so you'll want to be very quick with checking pressure and try to avoid letting any nitrogen out, so slam the gauge on fast and then when you pull it off yank it off fast; dont fiddle around and awkwardly depress the schrader without creating a seal, basic stuff. You'll want the highest possible gauge you have laying around, more than likely you'll max out the gauge (shocks usually have 200-300psi in them). But if you have a gauge that goes to say, 100psi, if it maxes it out then you at least know you have a reasonable amount of pressure in it. Really you're just looking to check if there's any significant pressure in there.
     
  11. Feb 17, 2021 at 1:53 PM
    #11
    bicfever

    bicfever [OP] New Member

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    I will check the pressure. I have gauges that are good to 300psi for working on mountain bike air shocks that should work. Does anyone else running ADS coilovers have this issue? I was disappointed in the responses I got from both MCM and ADS over the phone. Neither one seemed to care or have any concern. To be fair I purchased them directly from ADS and not MCM, but I do have the MCM UCA's so I figured it was worth reaching out to him.
     
  12. Feb 17, 2021 at 2:05 PM
    #12
    13TundraRW

    13TundraRW New Member

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    MCM UCA, MCM Shackles, 2.5 ADS C/O, Durobumps Front, Deaver U748, 2.5 ADS Bypasses, Wheelers/Timbren bumps rear, SoftTop
    I have the same kit but only 4 months old. I do not have an issue. Sorry to hear the customer service was disappointing for you. Hopefully you can figure it at soon and get back to enjoying it again.
     
  13. Feb 17, 2021 at 2:09 PM
    #13
    pickeledpigsfeet

    pickeledpigsfeet New Member

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    If you have a no loss chuck with a gauge then you should be fine. If you are serious about troubleshooting it yourself and you feel it is a pressure issue, do you have access to anyone with a welder? If so check what gases they have and if they have a reg that goes up to 300. Plenty of people run c25 in their shocks, especially when troubleshooting. Then you can go to a powersports shopthat will give you a nitrogen fill.

    Edit. Make sure you are at full droop when checking or changing pressure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
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  14. Feb 17, 2021 at 2:20 PM
    #14
    bicfever

    bicfever [OP] New Member

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    I have access to dried argon. I know guys that run this over nitrogen because it is more thermally stable and has a larger molecule so it is less prone to losing pressure (so they say). Basically, I can get them filled if I lose too much pressure checking them. It is also frustrating that a coilover in this price range and quality would need a rebuild after 20k miles of light use. I can't imagine this is normal with the number of guys on here running ADS and wheeling as hard as they do.
     
    pickeledpigsfeet, snivilous and chugs like this.
  15. Feb 17, 2021 at 2:43 PM
    #15
    Rubberdown

    Rubberdown Spilling my guts here.

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    Where ya located?
     
  16. Feb 17, 2021 at 2:49 PM
    #16
    bicfever

    bicfever [OP] New Member

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    Massachusetts
     
  17. Feb 17, 2021 at 3:56 PM
    #17
    TXTundra2722

    TXTundra2722 Pipe Hitters Union

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    You do get quality over regular shocks when you buy ADS,Kings, Fox, Icon.... that being said, the biggest benefit is that their rebuildable. I've heard of guys having to rebuild in under 20 thousand miles and have also had of guys going 50-60 plus thousand miles without issue. You can either rebuild them or sell them and buy something else... it's really not a big of a deal as it's being made to be. I'm wondering how much checking you did on any of these shocks before purchasing because I've read a few on here over the years from all of the brands. Hope you get it worked out, let us know what pressure you have ASAP and we'll try and help you out.
     
  18. Feb 17, 2021 at 6:41 PM
    #18
    bicfever

    bicfever [OP] New Member

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    Ok. Passenger side is at 109 psi, and driver side is at 117 psi.

    I might not have done enough checking on things before purchasing. I probably only spent a few hundred hours reading through this forum and others researching all of the brands mentioned, spoke to ADS on the phone directly, and Matt at MCM, a few times. Haha, all kidding aside, at the end of the day they provided the most travel (by a small margin) and seemed to be the highest or equal to the highest quality. I know there is an advantage to being rebuildable and I’ll likely take the opportunity to revalve them, but to me it seems premature for them to be making a noise like this after the amount of use they’ve had.

    I don’t know if this is relevant or not, but these are an “older” model. ADS told me when I was on the phone with them that there have been some internal valving changes since I purchase mine and the remote reservoir was redesigned. Maybe this has something to do with it.
     
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  19. Feb 17, 2021 at 6:58 PM
    #19
    snivilous

    snivilous snivspeedshop.com

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    Well that is the kind of pressure that makes things frustrating! If your floating piston (that separates the oil from the nitrogen) is leaking then that would explain your issue, but it could've also leaked out the end of the reservoir in which case I think you'd be fine (I've run similarly low pressures intentionally without issue).

    I'm surprised too that you're getting that much clunk from what seems to be small holes. My Kings clunk pretty bad if I get air for instance, but even if your shocks were totally blown and didn't do anything you'd still have to fully droop the suspension obviously for it to top out. From your video it seemed unlikely that you were going to full droop, is that a fair assessment? I assume you've checked the rest of the truck like the sway bar and hubs and anything that could be upset by an impulse?
     
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  20. Feb 17, 2021 at 7:01 PM
    #20
    snivilous

    snivilous snivspeedshop.com

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    After listening to your video a bunch more, frankly none of that sounds like a suspension topping out (based on my above experience). If you could get a recording from outside the vehicle that might help more. It doesn't even sound like a suspension noise to me, but it could just be from other noises and where the camera is.
     
  21. Feb 17, 2021 at 7:27 PM
    #21
    joonbug

    joonbug °°°°°°°°°°

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    Definitely not normal. Your UCA isn’t contacting your coils right? Does it do this every time you droop the front?
     
  22. Feb 17, 2021 at 7:34 PM
    #22
    bicfever

    bicfever [OP] New Member

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    I will try to mount a GoPro under there to get a better sound clip and hopefully a visual on the springs while it’s happening. I’ll get the truck up on the lift in the next few days to see if anything else is loose under there but it was all tight as of a few weeks ago. Also everything has clearance when the suspension is at full droop on the lift, but maybe with driving forces when the truck is moving something could be hitting. Should I charge those reservoir in the mean time or leave them where they are?
     
  23. Feb 17, 2021 at 7:41 PM
    #23
    bicfever

    bicfever [OP] New Member

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    It does it every time, and it takes very little effort. UCA’s have plenty of clearance.
     
  24. Feb 17, 2021 at 8:24 PM
    #24
    CallMeD

    CallMeD New Member

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    Diagnosing sounds is a pain in the ass. I just recently installed ADS coilovers with adjusters and triple bypasses in the rear with Deaver springs. I had a loud clunk and originally suspected the shocks or springs. The noise went away when I removed my front sway bar. Hope you find the culprit!
     
  25. Feb 17, 2021 at 9:07 PM
    #25
    pickeledpigsfeet

    pickeledpigsfeet New Member

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    Top them both off to 150 and go for a drive. Would eliminate it from the equation. They all make interesting noises when low on nitrogen, but I cant tell from my phone if yours is similar to what I have heard in the past.

    also check your lca alignment bolts for proper torque. Even slightly loose ones will clunk when articulating.
     
  26. Feb 21, 2021 at 1:16 PM
    #26
    bicfever

    bicfever [OP] New Member

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    Ok, I have some updates. Got the truck up on the lift today and took some measurements and did some troubleshooting. At full droop there was plenty of clearance all around, nothing even close to hitting. From sitting on the ground to full droop I have 3.5” of travel. I torqued the lower control arm bolts to spec (and all other front end bolts). A few of them were a c hair loose but not much. Decided to take the front sway bar off as well just to make sure that wasn’t causing the noise. Went for a ride and there is no change. Same noise. Just as loud. The only thing it could be at this point is the coilovers. I spoke to ADS again and they said the nitrogen being at the pressure it is would not cause this, unless it got into the oil like @snivilous mentioned. Either way if I top it off it shouldn’t change anything. Only thing left at this point is a rebuild. It’s possible that these coilovers just can’t handle 3” of lift without topping out so hard and easily that you can’t drive down a trail over 10 mph. I will report back after a rebuild and putting them back in at the same height. If it still does it, I will resort to lowering them and hope my tires don’t rub.
     
  27. Feb 21, 2021 at 1:46 PM
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    helidave

    helidave hellacopter

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    Checked control arm bushings, ball joints, cab mounts, etc?

    Can you jack the truck up by the frame so the tire is a couple inches off the ground and then use a long piece of pipe or something under the tire as a lever to load and unload the suspension? Or better yet have someone else do that while you watch and listen for noises or movement coming from the front end. If you can put enough force on it to make the noise it should be pretty easy to find.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  28. Feb 21, 2021 at 2:47 PM
    #28
    Mill72

    Mill72 New Member

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    I would personally adjust the height down to 2.25”-2.5”. Very well may be topping the shock out. My ADS Coilovers on my ‘14 was around 2.5” out of the box from MCM via ADS. No issues at all.

    Also the only complaint with ADS Coilover is the resi mounting location. It was tight up front and rubbing against the plastic. Made a faint clunk sound when off camber events compression. I adjusted the resi back a tad and sound went away. Something to look at.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  29. Feb 21, 2021 at 3:26 PM
    #29
    The Patriot 1776

    The Patriot 1776 Asskick Fabrication: Shit Is Sick!

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    You said it has gotten cold. How cold? Has it ever been that cold when you drove it?
    I thought my front end was messed up because it popped like that but it was -2 to 20 degrees. Once it warmed a little the noise went away. It did it for about 5 days while it was really cold and hadn’t done it in 3 days since it warmed up.
     
  30. Feb 21, 2021 at 4:20 PM
    #30
    bicfever

    bicfever [OP] New Member

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    @helidave good call. I have checked everything you mentioned. Even prying on the tire with the “oath-keeper” didn’t reveal any play.

    @Mill72 also a good call with the resi mount. I had the same issue with that and it made a strange popping noise, but got that sorted a while ago.

    Interesting point about the temperature @The Patriot 1776. It was in the 20’s the first time I heard it, and has also been in the 20’s every time I have tested it. I will have to make sure to replicated it on the next 40+ degree day to see if it changes. Not sure why the temp should really matter, but things do seem to creak and clunk more when the temps drop.

    Here’s an updated video from today. Bad quality, but you can here the sound from outside the window. Almost sounds like a gunshot.

    https://youtu.be/9rkUaMJXYTg
     

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