A slight case of buyers remorse?

I’ll probably get bashed for asking this question here but I am trying to weed out some bias on both sides of it.

I’ve been looking for a truck for the last year and had been deciding between a Tundra and an F150. While reliability was one of my main concerns, there was just too many features that I liked in the F150s over the Tundras that I tested. I couldn’t help but think that Toyota has been sitting on their laurels in regards to reliability being the main selling point while there were so many things about the F150 that I liked that would benefit me on a daily basis. Ultimately I ended up with a 2017 F150 with the 5.0 motor and 6 speed transmission. I landed on this specific configuration because from all of my research, it was the least problematic drivetrain in the 2015-2020 models. With that said, I can’t help but have some buyers remorse as I have combed through the Tundra forum and see that Tundras are regarded as the pinnacle of reliability. So I suppose my question is this:

Given modern manufacturing and quality methods, are Tundras as reliable as they are made out to be or is it over emphasized?

Just to be clear, I’m not insisting that F150s are as reliable as Tundras or the other way around. I’m just trying to understand if the claims of superior reliability are valid and if so, how superior are they? I’ll probably never be able to quantify that but at least it will either help me dispense with my buyers remorse or jump ship completely and trade in my F150 before I take too much of a financial hit.

 

I cant say for certain, but I do know that while I was searching for a F150 initially, about 3 years ago, I was a little surprised by the forums I combed through. Mainly I noticed the troubleshooting/issue sections had quite a bit more posts than I had seen when I had my FJ and still used the FJcruiserforums.

I ended up with a 3rd Gen Tacoma and had plenty of issues with it and well, the forums on Tacomaworld have enough issue posts to support that.

So what I mean to say is, all I seem to see here is "what tire size can I fit". Trouble posts are pretty rare. Typically trouble posts are easy to find once you know a recurring issue. For example search for transmission issues, or diff. bearing issues on the 3rd gen Tacomaworld site.

Search for IWE issues on a F150 site.

I really do think you'll generally be ok though, since you opted for a NA motor, where Ford seems to have the bulk of its issues with the Ecoboosts. I also think that the Tundra does seem to be up there with Toyotas Japanese offerings, like the 4R and FJ, in terms of reliability. So I guess, yes, I do think the Tundra has the corner of the market pinned down.

 

My first tundra was a 2013. I had 140k miles on it when my daughter totaled it a year ago. I had every recommended maintenance performed on it. I put an estimated $0 in repairs on that truck. Hell the battery wasn’t replaced until late 2019. All that made the decision easy. I didn’t look at other brands....and won’t until the others get the same or better reputation.

 

If you are a person who is going to keep their vehicles till the wheels fall off, the tundra is the way to go. If you shuffle your vehicles every 3-5yrs then it doesn't really matter.

My parents are ford people....Multiple Aerostar Vans & Expeditions growing up, now they have a F-150 and a brand new Expedition Max (Crazy $$$$). They never really had any major problems, but aren't ones that nit pick over every tiny little item like some. Occasional recalls, but they always buy extended warranty's so they dont really care.
Fords just dont hold their value like toyotas do.

 

Yes they are as reliable as made out to be. I owned a 2013 ecoboost supercrew and my current 2017 tundra. Yea f150 will draw you in with gimmicky features and the tundra feels like a mid 2000s workhorse, but that's the beauty of it. For me in my experience with the ecoboost all the gimmicy features while nice when new were just that.....gimmicky. they weren't perfected didn't operate properly and in the case of the motor well it didn't work properly either. Imo one of fords issues is one of its strengths. It offers way too many options and configurations to be reliable and it never sticks with any one option long enough to perfect anything. This is also why they are popular because of all the "options" . While outdated the tundra has had alot of the same features since 2007. That's by design it allows them time to perfect it. Also toyota doesn't offer some options because it opens the door for reliabilty problems. Ford on the other hand redesigns or releases a new motor many times before the 3 year warranty is even up on the previous model. How do you even know what you have if you're replacing or redesigning every 3 years

 

A good friend of mine has been a mechanic of all vehicle brands for 30 years. He insists don't buy a Ford. I pay attention to what he says.

 

Haven't had my tundra long enough to confirm its reliability. I have no reasons to doubt it, my Tacoma was running strong with routine maintenance 185K miles before I hit a deer

 

Not to knock what is presented here , but these blanket statements are about as helpful as posting with " ford stands for fix or repair daily" . I feel it's more helpful to have actual examples when these questions are asked so these threads don't slide into a Calvin pissing on "insert brand logo here" thread.

 

The last Ford truck I owned was a 1977 F150, so I can’t really speak to their reliability now. I can say that out of the 8 Toyota trucks I’ve had over the last 25 years the biggest issue I had was having to have the left rear axle seals replaced twice on a 2002 Tundra 4x4. Full disclosure, that truck lived a hard life. I drove the shit out of it. Lots of backwood trails, firebreaks, etc. with the gas pedal frequently on the floor. I totaled the truck when it had 167000 miles and the axle seals and 2 O2 sensors were the only problems it ever had. You may want to wait a while and see what the redesigned Tundra has to offer.

 

Overall, yes Tundras are more reliable than other 1/2 tons.

Mine on the other hand has been less than stellar. It's a 2014 with about 70k miles. Radio had to be replaced because it just stopped working, had the Cam Tower seals leak and needed to have the engine opened up to fix it, rear diff breather stopped breathing, rear drive shaft needed to be replaced due to a vibration, a chunk of paint about the size of a baseball fell off the bottom of drivers side door area, and had to replace 2 heat shields due to rust (never happened in my other vehicles Toyota or others).

Many will say that it never left me stranded. However, if I did not buy a Toyota extended warranty, those items above would have cost me serious repair money.

Not knocking on the Tundra, but just a reminder that every Make/Model has a few duds.

 

Check out www.Dashboard-Light.com. They inspect and rate vehicles specifically for long term reliability. Look at the nearly 300k Toyotas and nearly 300k Fords they inspected, and look at their cumulative numbers. Toyota trucks are new-feature-poor comparatively but far more reliable over the long term. These two things go directly hand in hand.

You’ll hear anecdotal experience all over the map, but I think the above study paints a more objective picture.

 

If it's got wheels, you're going to have problems. Just a fact of life. Toyota isn't perfect, no manufacturer is, and as more electronics are added there will likely be more glitches and problems, not less. Innovation has a price.

That said, everyone has said for years Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler is absolute garbage, they will break down in your driveway, pee on your flowers, roll over and catch fire for no reason. Or some such nonsense. I never had any major issue with the mix of 5 Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler/RAM vehicles we had. Two of them we kept for 10 years. After 7 years with our 4Runner, I will say Toyota's long term reliability is likely to be noticeably better. At the 10 year mark our Jeep/Dodge was starting to require minor repairs, and while not serious, they started happening with more frequency. More of a nuisance than anything else. From what I see with our 4R, I don't think we'll have near the frequency of such failures at the 10-15 year mark.

So yes, I agree that for those looking long term (10+ years or 100K+ miles) Toyota is hands down the safer choice. If you plan to trade out sooner than that, pretty much pick what you want and be happy. There are problems with any manufacturer, and statistically Toyota is better in every metric, but those statistical gaps with vehicles under 10 years/100K mikes is not worth worrying about IMO. And if you trade out every 5/50 or less... even a GM will last that long. lol

 

My opinion is if you had 10 F150's 6 would go 200K miles 2 would go 125K miles and 2 would be lemons. 10 tundras probably 8 go 200K miles and 2 problematic. I have a 2021 Limited. Pretty pathetic and my fault to not recoginize a "limited" model doesn't have programmable seats. It is a 2021!!!! Pretty pathetic you have to go Platinum to get BLIS etc. I love my Tundra drivetrain but it not even in same century as far as Cameras etc. If your Ford keeps you out of ONE accident due to its standard safety features then it was a better deal!!!!

 

Ford (the company) is rated near the bottom, 25th out of 32 for all car brands (even below Dodge/Chevy and Nissan). Ratings consisted of road test/reliability/owner satisfaction and safety. 2017/2018/ and 2020 were listed as worst used vehicles to own. According to Consumers report 2020. I have personally owned several F150s (2005/2010/2011/2016/2017) Ford bought back the 2010 and the 2016 5.0 liter had a knock that they wanted to replace the engine w/less than 4000 miles. Have to pull the cab off to do that and was not interested in doing that. Traded it for the 2017 and had several electronic issues that "could not duplicate" at the dealer. Sold it and bought my 2020 Limited CM. Resale tops all other brands and I could not be happier with my Toyota. Too bad I was such a slow leaner buying so many F150s would be $$$ ahead. Good luck w/your Ford

 

One thing I will say as well I have noticed and this is less of a reliabilty thing and more of a quality observation,but our ecoboost was starting to feel worn out around 60k. More squeaks, more rattles, fabric wouldn't clean up as good , seats were noticeably broken in and somewhat broken down in the cushioning. Nothing felt as "tight" as new anymore. My tundra now has 60k and it still feels SOLID. feels the same as when I bought it. Steering is tight, seats are firm, no abnormal wear on the leather. This is a big deal to me. Whats the point of a vehicle going 200k plus if it FEELS like it has that many miles or more on it

 

This guy summarizes the recent reliability data, test drive reviews and recommendations from Consumer Report for 2020 Pick-Up Trucks. He also looks at data regarding the percentage of various truck models which are still owned by the original purchaser after 15 years. When new models come out and CR does their test drive, they gush all over the bells and whistles offered by the other manufcturers and puke all over the Tundra. But, when the reliability data comes in, you see who rises to the top!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxUfxLZBuQU

 

Every Ford truck I’ve owned had rust issues and I’ve had several.

 

We have only owned 1 Ford, a 2007 Escape. It was always at our mechanics for repairs or parts being replaced.

Never again. We replaced it with a 2020 Rav4.

 

Depends on what your idea of reliable is. In a fishing forum I belong to, this topic comes up a bunch. There are several people on there that think changing water pumps, alternators, front ends, etc is all normal maintenance. Some people were even ok with the fact that they had to replace their transmission after 100,000 miles because that's how long they last. Others are ok with anything as long as it fell under warranty. They will be like, my truck has been very reliable, it has 100,000 miles on it and I've only had to replace the alternator, water pump, front ball joints, and the power steering pump. I'm sitting there thinking, I had 180,000 miles on my truck and I have replaced the battery, brakes, tires, and changed the oil. To me those are the regular maintenance items that you should expect to replace. Many are ok as long as it lasts for 3 years until they trade it in on a new one. To me if it's not going to last 200,000 miles and 10 years without major repairs, it is not reliable to me.

 

Wow thanks for everyone’s opinion, I really appreciate the feedback! It sounds like most everyone seems to have good experiences long term with their Toyota’s while a few have had issues. I’ve only had this truck for a couple of months so I can’t speak to its reliability but it is a certified pre owned vehicle and I have a warranty that will get me through to 2024 at the rate that I drive it. I suppose one option would be to drive this F150 I have now and if it ever presents me with a major failure I’ll have it fixed under warranty and then trade it towards a Tundra.

 

I am coming from a 2010 Ford Raptor after driving it for 150K miles. I loved the look of the truck and the ride/suspension is a lot better than Tundra off the lot...but I had so many issues that I was willing to overlook at the time looking back now. Rear window defrost and seat warmers dead, Ford Sync/bluetooth was horribly buggy, I had the infamous cam phaser tick/timing chain rattle, exhaust manifolds cracked and leaking, tranmission electrical plug leak and 3rd gear was slamming every time it downshifted was when I finally got rid of it. My 2018 Tundra has not had any issues so far other than a random radar cruise control error that has happened once. The most common issue Tundra's have is the cam tower leak that needs to be resealed or you just live with it which is what most owners do.

 

My experience as well. Already had cam tower resealed on passenger side, rear diff resealed, cowl replaced due to warpage. I went ahead and bought the extended warranty just in case because of those issues.

I too was looking for a 2017 f150 5.0 in 2018 went i bought the Tundra instead. I couldnt find a leftover 17' f150 crew 4x4 in texas at that time (did not want 10speed found in 18'), all were used to some extent. Ended up with a good deal on new 18 Tundra Ltd and so far (besides the issues mentioned above) i really enjoy the truck and am happy with purchase (and this forum as a resource). If I had found a new 17' f150 at the time i would have bought it. Either way you have a good truck and I have a good truck, all is right in the world

 

Toyota is definitely more reliable - that's not a biased opinion; just a fact due to their quality control system. Even Ford admitted that they don't have the same quality control.

That being said, enjoy your F-150. The 5.0 is a good motor and should last you a long time. You might run into some electrical issues and typically around 140,000 you start getting into potential transmission issues, but there are 'millions' of Fords on the road and the majority of those owners like their trucks; so forget about the buyers remorse; enjoy the truck for a few years and then maybe look for a Tundra on the next one. \

 

I am sure @Northbound Train 's mechanic can give real examples to back up his statement, but yes, I agree with you that real examples are a lot more useful.
I work for a company that has a fleet of work trucks - all brands represented. We don't buy any Rams anymore - never will. Chevy and Ford perform about the same - they self-destruct at about 140,000 miles. Chevies have transmission problems, Ford have electrical and engine issues. All of them require major brake work. We have two GMC 1500 trucks that were purchased last year; both are now in the shop for new transmissions - I am not sure about the mileage, but being a year old they are probably no more than 30,000 miles.

We don't have a lot of Tundras yet, but one has 297,000 miles with no issues. Others are at or near 100,000 with no issues. But the fleet manager is from Michigan so he is just set on buying "American" and even though he has the service records he is not keen on buying Tundras.
Based on our experience most of us who drive our own trucks buy Tundras (except the Michigan transplants) We have a higher Tundra vs Other ratio than the typical ratio on the street, because we have seen the numbers.

 

There’s a guy I work with that has a 2008 F-150 with the 5L and 6 speed , it’s a daily driver and he has never had a problem with it . Sounds like you got a newer version of his so hopefully yours will be as good .

 

The Tundras are part of the fleet trucks ? If so that’s pretty impressive .

 

Only a few of them unfortunately. But I can see that they will lean more towards it in the future, based on the service records. Unfortunately one of the Tundras have some sensor issue - it has been in for sensor replacement 3 times - that puts a little bit of a black eye on the Tundra - and that's what the fleet manager keeps throwing out there.

 

That’s crazy .... 297k on a fleet truck and he’s worried about some sensors ?

 

@Boerseun I'm sure his mechanic can as well. In reference to the fleet trucks , there was an electrical outfitter where I used to live that exclusively used trd tundras. Theu worked on a house near me and seeing them all the time in the job is what led me to one in the first place lol

 

The 5.0 Coyote Engine has a lot of known oil issues.

The 2021 F150s are coming from the factory already rusting. That place is turning into an absolute shit show.