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A construction question (Housing)

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Tierhog, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. Feb 19, 2019 at 8:43 AM
    #1
    Tierhog

    Tierhog [OP] SIG-AHOLIC

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    I have crappy aluminum rain gutters. No trees to clog them. I live in California and see occasional rain. I now have a section of wood rot on a rafter tail and facia board (2x6x16). The rutters fill with a silt like dirt from agricultural discing and they leak in the corners.

    Do I need these damn things? I have a tile roof.

    I'm from the east coast and we don't use em.. Snow would kill them.

    Thanks
    Steve
     
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  2. Feb 19, 2019 at 8:55 AM
    #2
    831Tun

    831Tun heartless Bastrd

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    A lot of factors to consider. How much over hang do you have? Where's the water going now and where's it gonna go if you remove the gutters? How much rain do you see on average per year? What's the water gonna splash on? Also, code requires that you have metal, like an ell, that fits under the shingles and comes out over the fascia.
     
  3. Feb 19, 2019 at 8:56 AM
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    Tierhog

    Tierhog [OP] SIG-AHOLIC

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    This will add some clarity. Average rainfall is 13 inches per year, 0 snow.

    20190218_102130.jpg
     
  4. Feb 19, 2019 at 8:59 AM
    #4
    koditten

    koditten New Member

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    Some insurance companies require them.

    One if their duties is to get run off away from walls and foundation.

    If you have little rain or snow, they are not very useful in my opinion.
     
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  5. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:01 AM
    #5
    Trooper2

    Trooper2 Premium Lone Star Member / SSEM #13

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    Dang, that corner must hold water and leak into fatia. 13 in annual rain shouldn't rot anything.

    There are certain builder grade gutters that tend to direct rain to the fatia more than others.
     
  6. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:02 AM
    #6
    831Tun

    831Tun heartless Bastrd

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    Well, you're gonna have water dripping/ splashing along the front of the garage door, maybe not a big deal for ya. It'll also splash up against the house.
    Short answer: No you don't really have to have gutters. If they're failing and need replacement, maybe remove 'em and see if you like it before installing new ones.
     
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  7. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:10 AM
    #7
    Tierhog

    Tierhog [OP] SIG-AHOLIC

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    All your responses are helpful. The primary culprit is the mud like silt that hardens into kryptonite in the summer and creates a swamp within the gutters in the winter. The seals fail at the union and it collects and drips for days as gravity allows it to go under the gutter and on the facia.

    I have a second set, on the upper roof and no damage yet, but I'm realistic.

    I'm on a foundation.with concrete and decking on the perimeter.
     
  8. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:13 AM
    #8
    pickeledpigsfeet

    pickeledpigsfeet New Member

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    If you want to fix the facia the gutter has to come off anyways and you can have a seemless one made to replace it. If you want to just stop the leak and deal with facia later then get some Quad brand gutter sealant in the caulk tubes and seal up the seams.

    Edit- pressure wash the silt out and seal the union with quad.
     
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  9. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:14 AM
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    Trooper2

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    Gutters are nice, you may miss if removed when it does rain. As mentioned. there are different grades of gutters, but time and elements can certainly wear on any of them.

    When replacing fatia, I would recommend treated would.
     
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  10. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:19 AM
    #10
    Twinky

    Twinky Keep the shinny side up!

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    Take a section off of a side of the house, like the garage section. Then just see if they are worth it for the occasional rain or not.

    As long as insurance isnt an issue (save the gutter and put it back up if necessary) and the facial looks decent its not gonna hurt anything.
     
  11. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:19 AM
    #11
    pickeledpigsfeet

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  12. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:21 AM
    #12
    Tierhog

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    I have a guy that's a licensed framing contractor that will remove, repair and paint it on Monday. House will look like a kid with his two front teeth knocked out until I figure out what's ideal.. Lol.

    You guys have been a tremendous help. Thank you all.

    Steve
     
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  13. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:23 AM
    #13
    Festerw

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  14. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:26 AM
    #14
    831Tun

    831Tun heartless Bastrd

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    Here in Cali, redwood is the best thing, as long as it's tight grained and not some box store bargain lumber. I've had terrible experiences with many of these "treated" trim lumbers. They claim a big warranty and are out of business before you can call them on it, presumably due to all the claims. From what I've seen, a lot of the "treated" lumbers for exterior trim application are made of inferior wood species like pine or spruce. They're often finger jointed too and the joints fail. They also often have costly and time consuming primer requirements (proprietary paint) for any cuts.
    I'm often working at the beach or nearby and the elements are a bit more extreme. In certain parts of the country the "treated" trim lumber may work fine but due to the experiences I've had I would avoid it like the plague.
     
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  15. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:34 AM
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    Prostar 190

    Prostar 190 SSEM #9 I would rather be water skiing

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    I'm from Ohio and we always have or "should" have gutters. Our fascia boards are typically covered with aluminum which also helps add protection. I personally wouldn't remove it.
     
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  16. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:35 AM
    #16
    Tierhog

    Tierhog [OP] SIG-AHOLIC

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    Here's my quote.

    It looks like your gutter is causing the damage to your facia and rafter tails. It’s going to be difficult to impossible to fix your damage without removing the gutter too. We’re strictly a framing contractor and although we would give you a price for replacing the dry rot we don’t get involved with gutter. We’ll take it down as far as we need to fixing the facia and tails but putting it back up would have to to be somebody else. Based on the picture for this one area to be repaired the facia would need to get cut back on each side of the corner to make it look good.
    Material :2x6 x 16’ facia 38.00
    2x4x 8’ Doug 5.00
    1/2gal paint& primmer
    20.00
    Nails and caulk. 5.00
    Labor 4 man hours. 200.00

    Bid Total: 268.00




    I thought it was reasonable . Im presuming hes using Douglas F?
     
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  17. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:36 AM
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    Trooper2

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    Edit: Replace materials (especially wood) with what is recommended in your region.
     
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  18. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:39 AM
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    Prostar 190

    Prostar 190 SSEM #9 I would rather be water skiing

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    Yes I would remove to fix and reinstall it. I will also agree redwood is a much better option than treated wood. We still use redwood around here in certain situations. The problem for use is redwood is very hard to get anymore and very pricey.
     
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  19. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:44 AM
    #19
    831Tun

    831Tun heartless Bastrd

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    That would be my guess. I was kinda broke when I started building my house and used some DF for fascia, I now regret it. It's wept sap and all needs to be sanded and repainted. If it's well primed and painted on ALL sides it'll work but for the small amount that's being replaced I'd suggest redwood 'cause it would've held up the the leaking gutter far better than what's currently there.
    Do you by chance know what the average humidity is your area?
     
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  20. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:48 AM
    #20
    Tierhog

    Tierhog [OP] SIG-AHOLIC

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    Google is GOOD.. LOL

    Average Humidity is 66%

    We are selling in approximately 4 to 5 years
     
  21. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:48 AM
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    CaptSpaulding

    CaptSpaulding ...ain't nothin but nothin

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    Also consider a more substantial drip edge. It would help push the water away from the fascia . I just built a patio on the rear of my house, opted for a dramatic drip edge and no gutter. So far, the fascia never gets any run off
     
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  22. Feb 19, 2019 at 9:52 AM
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    831Tun

    831Tun heartless Bastrd

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    So true. And, the way it's grown these days it doesn't have the same rot resistant properties that it once did. It's grown faster and the extractives and tannins that give it color and rot resistance don't have enough time to form. I'm lucky, Big Creek Lumber, one of the major redwood mills is really close by. Heck, I've got 30+ redwood trees here on our property.
     
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  23. Feb 19, 2019 at 6:45 PM
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    koditten

    koditten New Member

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    I'm not sure what your contractor is smoking, but if you can get the repairs done for $300, you better get the check wrote.
     
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  24. Feb 20, 2019 at 4:44 AM
    #24
    Slayer

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    from the photo..
    I'm sure the rafter tail is gone too better fix that too.
    that fascia is what the lumber industry call SPF... fast growth spruce,pine or fir then pre-primed.
    a poor, but cheaper choice by your builder.

    replace with cedar or redwood.. doug fir will make you fight pitch pockets a long time.

    I would check the slope on that section of gutter.. maybe it the low spot.
    adding a downspout there might help too.

    water is very damaging.
    maintainace is key... flush that crap out of your gutters once in a while.... HA
     
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  25. Feb 20, 2019 at 11:22 AM
    #25
    Tierhog

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    I cleaned all the gutters yesterday. Was a mudfest. The guy is coming Monday. If that price is low I'll definitely pay in cash. He probably thought I'd turn it in to the insurance. Rafter tail is being replaced.


    https://youtu.be/CCK2SITWa_Q

    We move to Florida in 5 years. Retirement in California is financially ridiculous. Truck tags for a year was 700$ plus.. Sales tax is 9%, Gas prices, real estate etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  26. Feb 20, 2019 at 11:41 AM
    #26
    Trooper2

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    :itllbuffout: until you move LOL :rofl:
     
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  27. Feb 20, 2019 at 12:14 PM
    #27
    poheller

    poheller 2018 Platinum

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    I am a commercial and residential building inspector. Correct on the comment about the gutters! Need them to channel water away from the house. I would replace the rafter fascia boards with a 2x or 1x composite board. Add new Vinyl gutters wrap the exposed rafter tails with coil stock and sell in 5 years.
     
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  28. Feb 20, 2019 at 12:37 PM
    #28
    Tierhog

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    Good advice Scott.. We are doing exactly that.
     
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  29. Feb 26, 2019 at 8:32 AM
    #29
    Tierhog

    Tierhog [OP] SIG-AHOLIC

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    Repaired. Apparently it wasn't DF.. And it was some kind of "rough cut" Anyway, he appeared to do a good job and caulked the tail ends bottoms etc.

    Now the rain gutter guy wants 250$ to rehang.. Thought that was steep but neighbors say that's normal to slightly high.

    Thoughts?

    20190225_122155.jpg
    20190225_165620.jpg
     
  30. Feb 26, 2019 at 9:21 AM
    #30
    JohnLakeman

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    Gutter installation requires a galvanized drip edge flashing that prevents water from running back under the roofing edge, onto the fascia, and under the roofing. Some builders believe that sufficient overhang of roofing material will eliminate the need for a drip edge when installing gutters. Typically, this turns out to be false. If your roof does not have a drip edge at the edge of the roofing, you'll continue to have this problem, and probably not just in this location.

    Edit: This is true for shingle roofs...not sure what you do with the tile profile. Maybe roll flashing under the profile lower edge.

    @poheller is correct. Keep the gutters. Depending on the type of soil you have, you may begin to see foundation cracks if you don't keep water drained away from your foundation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019

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