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RESOLVED! - 2014 delayed start, but runs well - Worse in cold and 2nd starts

Discussion in '2.5 Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by Fergie, Nov 29, 2021.

  1. Nov 29, 2021 at 4:00 PM
    #1
    Fergie

    Fergie [OP] New Member

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    Evening all,

    I finally caught this on video, and I'm hoping to get some guidance on it. I've been to the dealer w a verbal description of this issue, and their solution was a refresh and new fuel pump, but the problem persists. This is on a 2014 5.7L SR5 DC, w 115k miles.

    Some info to possibly help:
    1. Dealer installed remote start. Will occasionally have the issue using remote start, but very infrequently.
    2. If I insert key, turn it to on, rotate it back to off, and then start it, no issue at all w the starting.
    3. Cold starts make it more common, as does restarting the vehicle within 10-30mins after the first start. The other day, we had a hard freeze overnight, and the issue was bad enough that the truck went in to limp mode, with no traction control and a CEL. The Code was P0335 when I clear it. However, the CEL went off on its own after hockey practice, the code was pulled the next day.
    4. The dealer has done the TSB refresh of the ECM and installed a new fuel pump.

    See the video, with sound up, for the issue. For reference, I do not have the key continually in the start position to engage the starter in the vid. I go to start it once, let go of the key like normal, and get the sound, with the truck eventually starting.

    [​IMG]

    Any help and guidance is greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
     
  2. Nov 29, 2021 at 4:05 PM
    #2
    Fergie

    Fergie [OP] New Member

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  3. Nov 29, 2021 at 4:05 PM
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    Kratos

    Kratos Woof

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    If I insert key, turn it to on, rotate it back to off, and then start it, no issue at all w the starting.

    Doesn't that point to an issue with the ignition switch?
     
  4. Nov 29, 2021 at 8:59 PM
    #4
    Fergie

    Fergie [OP] New Member

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    The issue happens w the remote start as well, which doesnt involve the key or ignition itself, so I would think that eliminates, or at least makes that possibility less likely.
     
  5. Nov 30, 2021 at 8:13 PM
    #5
    Fergie

    Fergie [OP] New Member

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    Can anyone else weigh in on possible causes of this issue?
     
  6. Dec 1, 2021 at 3:42 AM
    #6
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    The description of the issue here doesn't give much to go off of. The video actually confuses the issue further as you can't tell what is actually going on when you attempt a start.

    If there is a delay of some sort in engaging the starter (I think this is what you are trying to describe), that seems to lessen with a key cycle, then I would start with new key fob batteries.
     
  7. Dec 1, 2021 at 4:12 AM
    #7
    HulkSmurf14

    HulkSmurf14 ...Weighted Average...

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    How old is your battery?
     
  8. Dec 1, 2021 at 6:15 AM
    #8
    tundraiggy73

    tundraiggy73 New Member

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    Did the dealer reset the alcohol density parameter?
     
  9. Dec 1, 2021 at 6:58 AM
    #9
    CavBluTundra

    CavBluTundra CavBluisdabomb

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    This right here
     
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  10. Dec 2, 2021 at 5:50 AM
    #10
    Fergie

    Fergie [OP] New Member

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    I suppose since I've heard the noise so many damn times, I know what I'm listening too, but yes, the video doesnt do a great job describing the noise.

    Youre correct that the delay in engaging the starter is the problem; can you explain how the key fob batteries and the starting issue are connected? I'm not clear on that.

    Thanks
     
  11. Dec 2, 2021 at 5:51 AM
    #11
    Fergie

    Fergie [OP] New Member

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    I emailed the service manager and asked about this as was told "From the tech: During the reflash that data is reset, after the reflash the reset of the fuel alcohol density is then confirmed manually."
     
  12. Dec 2, 2021 at 6:18 AM
    #12
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    The system reads a transponder in the key. If battery is weak or dead then I would expect some behavior like what your are describing. I’ve read in some manuals that holding the key close to ignition switch for a few seconds is a last ditch method of getting car started although this may be for push button only systems.

    ive had other cars that had the fob battery be weak and it had similar behaviors
     
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  13. Dec 2, 2021 at 7:25 AM
    #13
    Fergie

    Fergie [OP] New Member

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    I purchased the battery for my 4Runner in 2018, and switched it to the Tundra in 2019. Its an X2 AGM; I'll pull some voltages at rest and when the battery is charging too.
     
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  14. Dec 2, 2021 at 7:26 AM
    #14
    Fergie

    Fergie [OP] New Member

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    Thanks! I'll start w the key fob and main battery and go from there. Appreciate the explanation.
     
  15. Dec 2, 2021 at 7:37 AM
    #15
    HulkSmurf14

    HulkSmurf14 ...Weighted Average...

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    trickle charge that bugger or get a GM diode/ Alt-S fuse to swap into you 7.5A alternator fuse...it's a voltage booster those batteries need...will cost you between $25-$80 depending which one you buy...
     
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  16. Dec 2, 2021 at 7:53 AM
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    Fergie

    Fergie [OP] New Member

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    Roger that. Just found one on Ebay from one of the other threads here after reading more on the charging needs of AGMs.
     
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  17. Dec 3, 2021 at 4:03 PM
    #17
    Rocko9999

    Rocko9999 New Member

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  18. Dec 6, 2021 at 8:37 AM
    #18
    Fergie

    Fergie [OP] New Member

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    OK...I'm installing the diode today and over the weekend through a trickle charger on the main battery and my camper one too, just because. I've got to relocate the arb compressor from the Rago mount access the fuse box first though, and also install some SDHQ battery terminals.

    I replaced the key fob battery yesterday and have the same issue.

    The remote start has been on the vehicle since I purchased it, and hasn't bad an issue up until this time. The fact that it happens w both remote and keyed start is good, I suppose, but the whole situation is weird.

    The puzzling aspect is that if I cycle the key twice before starting, like in rapid succession, I haven't had the start issue.
     
  19. Dec 6, 2021 at 8:53 AM
    #19
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    Has your fob been near any powerful magnets lately or in the past?
     
  20. Dec 6, 2021 at 9:06 AM
    #20
    Fergie

    Fergie [OP] New Member

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    No, not that I'm aware of. I've also used the spare key/fob that I have and have had the same issue.
     
  21. Dec 6, 2021 at 10:33 AM
    #21
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    Ok so you can rule out the fob now.

    next possibility is a starter relay or a starter solenoid.

    Replicate the issue and see if you can get a test light or volt meter to see if you are getting power at the starter.

    if no power at starter the issue is upstream like a relay or ignition switch or anti theft issue.

    If you are getting power then the starter is bad ( or more likely the brush contacts in solenoid)

    edit: rewatched the video several more times. That sounds like the starter is spinning but not engaging the ring gear on flex plate. This means the bendix system in starter is not pushing the rotating pinion outward. Aka bad starter.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
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  22. Dec 7, 2021 at 1:18 PM
    #22
    Fergie

    Fergie [OP] New Member

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    I'm picking up a starter relay today. In watching and reading on bendix failures, it sure presents as that, but on the off chance its the relay, its a heluuva lot cheaper than a starter repalcement.

    I appreciate the help and guidance on this too; thank you for that.
     
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  23. Dec 7, 2021 at 2:25 PM
    #23
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    Relay is also a 5 second experiment. The starter is a fairly difficult replacement.
     
  24. Dec 8, 2021 at 9:01 AM
    #24
    Fergie

    Fergie [OP] New Member

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    Replaced the relay last night. We've been having rain, freezing rain, and headed towards snow later, so temps have been low. Had numerous starts without issue, and then this morning, after getting to work, let the truck sit for about 2-3 mins, then tried starting it and got the same issue, though not near as long of a delay, still a few seconds though.

    Spoke w my dealer and the starter replacement is looking to be around $1100. We dont have a good import shop to do the work, and the dealer has been solid, so this is likely the path I'm heading down. My patient load and schedule at the clinic is always worse this year, so this is my easiest option, but damn!...the cost.

    On a better note, the diode is charging my main and bed battery to higher voltages which makes me happy!
     
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  25. Dec 20, 2021 at 4:47 PM
    #25
    BTBAKER

    BTBAKER DIFFERENT NAME. SAME JUNK.

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    Mine needs to be reset again. Another flash of the ECM due to hard cold starts. Sad thing is he said even though Toyota is aware of the issue they won’t cover it. Complete BS IMO. Apparently the Tech said to take key out of ignition when refueling to help prevent the alcohol density from changing.
     
  26. Dec 21, 2021 at 9:02 AM
    #26
    Fergie

    Fergie [OP] New Member

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    My local dealer covered the initial fuel pump and reflash after I spoke with them about it being a known issue w their programming and not part of my own fault; they were cool about it, and went above what I expected.

    The truck is at the shop now for a deep dive and possible starter replacement. The service manager is somewhat frustrated that its been in 3 times now for the same issue and it still isnt resolved.

    Also, doesnt everyone take the key out of the ignition when fueling?
     
  27. Dec 21, 2021 at 3:51 PM
    #27
    Fergie

    Fergie [OP] New Member

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    And the winner is.....drum roll please....a bad starter!!!
    [​IMG]
     
  28. Dec 21, 2021 at 3:52 PM
    #28
    Fergie

    Fergie [OP] New Member

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  29. Dec 22, 2021 at 4:16 AM
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    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    Cool!

    Once I heard the video correctly it reminded me of a starter spinning without engaging.
     
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  30. Dec 22, 2021 at 4:50 AM
    #30
    KNABORES

    KNABORES Sarcasm incoming

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    this is the answer, of course you already fixed it so you know. Starter motor sounded like it worked just fine, but the spinning gear on the starter was not engaging the flywheel due to a bad bendix. It has to rotate, and push forward onto the flywheel or it just spins without spinning the motor. Glad you got the issue resolved. What is the starter location on the 5.7? $1100? Sounds a bit spendy.
     

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