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CREDIT CARD ABUSE build

Discussion in '2nd Gen Builds (2007-2013)' started by zackbremer, Sep 3, 2017.

  1. Sep 26, 2017 at 10:31 AM
    #31
    motoxscott

    motoxscott New Member

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    Hey Zack .... Scott @ Camburg here. Few things I want to hit on ....

    1) I checked with everyone here and checked all our incoming emails .... everyone is in the dark on this. Who did you reach out to and how? This is the first we've heard or seen about this.
    2) Our shock mount was designed around a FOX 2.5 and 3.0 bypass shock with a specific extended and collapsed length along with a custom bypass tube layout. I don't know how your Kings compare and could be part of the problem.
    3) Who's bumpstop mount kit is that and what was it designed around? Bumpstop mounts are very specific, hence why we have different versions based on the parts they're being used with.

    Looking at the few pics you've posted it looks like the bypass shock is bottoming out completely and that's going to put all the load into the shock mount. You need 1/2" min. of shock shaft exposed when everything is bottomed out metal on metal. If parts arent installed 100% correctly, issues can and will arise, especially offroad. Looks like you're missing a bolt in the shock mount attaching it to the frame, not life or death, but it's not 100% installed and can allow the part to flex, metal cracks when it flexs.

    To give you guys some insight on these mounts. We have these on our own Tundra with over 10,000 miles on them with zero issues and it's used hard offroad often and beat up for photo shoots in glamis, moab, etc. We have over 400 of these on military Tundras overseas with zero issues. Common denominator is they are all using the exact parts we spec out to be used. No short cuts we made on these mounts and it's a solid design. Certain things aren't 100% welded that don't need to be. The additional unneeded welding would end up warping the part for the amount of heat put into it. We spend countless hours designing parts and do everything for a reason and make many revisions prior to producing something. We don't just throw something together even with over 20 years experience doing this.

    I'll be putting these on my own truck shortly, with the FOX shocks we designed for them with no concern for the design being an issue.

    Give me a call at the shop so we can troubleshoot this issue for you or send me an email scott@camburg.com to start the process.

    We're always down to work with customers and address issues, just have to give us the opportunity. We'd much rather work through your problem then randomly stumble upon it online.

    - Scott @ Camburg
     
  2. Sep 26, 2017 at 4:18 PM
    #32
    zackbremer

    zackbremer [OP] New Member

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    Hey Scott thanks for the response I sent out an email really late Saturday night or very early Sunday morning. I sent it to the sales@camburg.com address as it was the only one i saw on the website....I believe I emailed you or Carlos earlier this spring about this kit and was told it would work with any standard 12in bypass. The kit was installed by an off-road fabrication shop, the leaf pack was stripped and suspension fully cycled droop to bump to make sure that the shock shaft was not fully compressed, on full bump. I'll give you guys a call shortly, thanks for the response
     
    Eclipsed & Floating likes this.
  3. Sep 26, 2017 at 4:21 PM
    #33
    zackbremer

    zackbremer [OP] New Member

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    Screen shot of the email for time stamp purposes

    20170926_162053.jpg
     
  4. Sep 26, 2017 at 4:42 PM
    #34
    zackbremer

    zackbremer [OP] New Member

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    The Fab shop who did the install is very well known and does full builds on desert race trucks as well as weekend warrior builds he actually has a pretty good relationship with camburg. This is far from my area of expertise but he fully strip the leaf pack drain the nitrogen and cycled the suspension to get mounting angles and bump zones dialed in correctly I don't think the install caused the failure in this case

    I just spoke with Scott from camburg on the phone and he was really concerned about the issues I was having and I'll be emailing him pictures and some other information so that they can troubleshoot what exactly happened with the kit. My passenger side bracket has not cracked so this may have just been a lemon or a bad piece of metal the thing that concerns me most was that I did not run this kit extremely hard or for an extended period of time again there was less than 10 hours of dirt time on it.

    Had I been pre-running Baja or had it on for thousands of miles it would be less of a mystery and a concern.... not exactly sure what caused the failure yet but Scott is a cool dude and we are working together to figure it out
     
  5. Sep 26, 2017 at 7:33 PM
    #35
    CM-LENNY

    CM-LENNY No Complaints

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    Glad to see you are in contact with Camburg. I hope you get it all figured out and get that bad boy back in the dirt for desert season. Keep us posted Zach.....:thumbsup:
     
    zackbremer[OP] likes this.
  6. Feb 9, 2018 at 10:32 PM
    #36
    KevinK

    KevinK SGU - High Speed Overlander

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    How the hell am I just finding this thread?!?

    I’ll have to repent with an offering of beer on our next SGU trip.
     
  7. Feb 10, 2018 at 1:55 AM
    #37
    TexasTundra27

    TexasTundra27 Moby Dick

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    @zackbremer what was the final outcome on your issues with the Camburg kit? Great looking truck!
     
    Black Wolf likes this.
  8. Feb 10, 2018 at 2:12 AM
    #38
    zackbremer

    zackbremer [OP] New Member

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    they shipped me a new upper mount, and sent me some free t shirts and stickers...i put the new mount on, and welded it as well as bolting it..we stripped the leaf packs and re-cycle the suspension to make sure the bypass wasnt bottoming before the bump...it wasnt but it was dam close..maybe like 1/8 of an inch..so we added some bump pads to the axle so now the bump is fully compressed and there is still 1/2 of shock shaft showing so no extra force is going to that upper mount.

    i also revalved to a stiffer compression pack in the rear(18/10 from 12/10) and im having my leafs re-arched to give me some more ride height, so i can better utilize the bypass. the rear end feels much better with the increased comp valving...do to the shock angle you need to run stiffer valving than if it was vertical(ie bedcage or stock location) because shock angle decreases dampening ability. i think if i go to a 20/10 stack and get the increased ride height i want so the bypass piston isnt as far into the stroke at ride height i should really be able to smash trails, and i already keep up with the LT guys.

    camburg made things right, and a lil trial and error with valving is proving to be very helpful in getting it to ride like i want. i know camburg did a lot of R&D with this kit but with a fox bypass, my guess is to get the valving correct.

    im also revalving the front coilover to a flutter stack to help smooth out the tiny and annoying dirt road chop that rattles your teeth and increasing the compression valving in the bypass for a lil more piece of mind. after that the truck should be spot on.

    ive also found driving within 85-90% of the trucks suspension abilities instead of trying to go 100mph every where has made it more enjoyable..

    heres some pics of it in action, also new mounted axe and ham radio

    20170922_143128.jpg
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    20180104_134528.jpg
    20170927_180900.jpg
    20180201_190818.jpg
    20180203_112320.jpg
    20170928_104525.jpg
    20170928_122414.jpg
     
  9. Feb 10, 2018 at 2:38 AM
    #39
    TexasTundra27

    TexasTundra27 Moby Dick

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    Pretty impressive for Camburg to make things right like that. Can you explain how a flutter stack works? I’ve read about them in the past but I’ve slept a few times since then... I had my Icons rebuilt in November and threw some 700lb springs on and that made a huge difference, but I think some different valving (front and rear) would make me much happier.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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  10. Feb 10, 2018 at 2:59 AM
    #40
    zackbremer

    zackbremer [OP] New Member

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    Advanced Tuning: Flutter Shim Stack
    A flutter stack is a configuration were a smaller diameter shim (gap shim) is placed between two larger diameter shims, usually on the compression side and within one or two shims from the piston face.

    Inside the shock, a flutter stack increases the distance that the largest shim(s) has to move before it contacts the stiffer shims above it. This gap extends the "soft" zone of the shock and the more thick the gap shim is, the larger that zone becomes.

    In a real world application, this would allow your suspension to better soak up high movement, low force terrain like a washboard while still absorbing big hits when they happen. (A secondary bypass shock, however, would normally be better choice for this application though.)

    this website is awesome for understanding the basics

    http://www.crawlpedia.com/shock_tuning.htm

    as for your icons, i know icon is digressive instead of progressive in their dampening so i would consult other people on that cus i have no idea how to valve for that
     
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  11. Feb 10, 2018 at 4:51 AM
    #41
    Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Bigfoot Hunter, Sasquatch too, but not Yeti

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    Props to Camburg for working with you on this. Nice ride and pics!!!
     
  12. Feb 10, 2018 at 4:58 AM
    #42
    zackbremer

    zackbremer [OP] New Member

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    Scott and jerry at camburg were professional and helpful, they spent over an hour on the phone talking to me about the set up, going over their R&D, and not just trying to give me free shit but to actually figure out the problem and what caused the failure so that it wouldnt happen again. nothing but good things to say about camburg and i have been smashing with this new upper mount and doing some crawling and flexing and its holding up great. no complaints..i proudly wear my camburg shirt lol
     
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  13. Feb 10, 2018 at 5:01 AM
    #43
    Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Bigfoot Hunter, Sasquatch too, but not Yeti

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    Crawlpedia is very informative too!:thumbsup:
     
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  14. Feb 10, 2018 at 5:09 AM
    #44
    Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Bigfoot Hunter, Sasquatch too, but not Yeti

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    It's also refreshing to see someone not too worried to get a few "scratches" on their truck! I'm thinking for you it's kind of hard not too :thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  15. Feb 10, 2018 at 5:22 AM
    #45
    zackbremer

    zackbremer [OP] New Member

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    you cant appreciate it clean when you never get it dirty
    just had it detailed 2 days ago


    Resized_20180207_155340.jpg
     
  16. Feb 10, 2018 at 5:28 AM
    #46
    Black Wolf

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    I'm due for a good detail. Our trucks look great when clean.heh...heh. If they are not getting dirty then not having any fun!!:mudding:
     
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  17. Feb 10, 2018 at 8:49 AM
    #47
    Samoan Thor

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    I love your truck breh, it looks like it’s LT, you’re still using stock LCA? what size is the Rear bypass and specs? I’m sure if I did your exact setup I wouldn’t have to go LT, I love speeding off-road. Are those custom deavers? What’s your take on hub vs lug centric wheels since you like the go fast life too? I was concerned if wheels on the hub is safer than sitting on the lugs or it’s not a big deal?......
     
  18. Feb 10, 2018 at 1:36 PM
    #48
    zackbremer

    zackbremer [OP] New Member

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    not long travel, but its as close as youre going to get lol...Im still using the stock LCA, we cut off the stock bumps and gained about 2in of uptravel..my front cycles 13inches droop to bump with no CV binding..i have the cam tab guessets and spindle gusset to help keep everything in line.

    my front is king extended travel(not long) 2.5 C/O with 700lb spring(they ship with 600, so u need to ask for this) and the TC spec 2.5 triple bypass. the bumps are 2.5x2in hydro bumps, limit straps from SDHQ

    the deavers are their new overland pack(part num U748), my springs are my biggest gripe, i think deaver got sick of people asking for the K37 pack(performance pack) and wanting added preload to carry weight, so they threw 2 flat overload leafs on the k37 and called it something new..it holds the weight well and is waaayy better than stock..but my rear end still bucks on bigger hits and i believe its because of those 2 flat springs.
    If i had to do it over i would go with the ICON RXT leaf pack as its adjustable, thinner(more uptravel) and has no flat leafs(causes bucking) im pulling my 2 flat springs having a local leaf spring company in az rearch mine and add leafs to give me the ride height and hopefully improve performance.

    the rear bypass is just a standard king 12inch, 2.5 triple bypass with rem res. if i had to do that over, i would have gone 3.0 and had them clock the bypass tubes to the front(this is an option online when ordering) my tubes come off the side and the tire rubs them a lil at full stuff(wheel offset is 18mm, 0mm would probably clear), doesnt effect performance, but my stickers are gone, its a cosmetic thing. and i would have gone 3.0 because as mentioned earlier in order to get the increased travel(14in), camburgs kit angles the shock(ie ford raptor) but with angle you decrease dampening ability, so the 3.0 has more valve shims and would allow me more dampening. right now i run a pretty stiff valve stack, which isnt a big deal since it doesnt feel that way do to the angle of the shock. just things you learn along the way...the 2.5s perform great and dont over heat and 3.0 are probably overkill, but thats just my style id rather have more shock and not need it than the other way around.

    always run hub centric wheels, you dont want 7500 pounds mashing down at 60mph on just those tiny lugs...im sure plenty of people have run lug centric with success but to me its playing with fire especially in the go fast life....also dont gorilla your lugs on, i did that and blew 4 of em out..torque them to spec which is 90ft/lbs
     
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  19. Feb 10, 2018 at 1:39 PM
    #49
    zackbremer

    zackbremer [OP] New Member

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    if and when you go to get this set up, DM me and ill et you know what valve stacks im running so you can order them that way and dont have to go through the trial and error process like i did lol just have em sent with the custom valving,bolt em in and go
     
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  20. Feb 10, 2018 at 1:41 PM
    #50
    zackbremer

    zackbremer [OP] New Member

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    if u stick your head under your fender and look at the stock bump, you can see how long it is and how much it hangs down...imagine cutting that off and thats the increased travel you see...i had no rubbing with 35s and slight rubbing with 37s...you cant stuff it any more lol i pull 13in up front and long travel tacomas pull 14in to give you an idea
     
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  21. Feb 10, 2018 at 3:17 PM
    #51
    Vizsla

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    I’m assuming you have the extended travel standard(I know yours are tweaked) coilovers? If so can you elaborate on what dictates maximum up travel? Just curious, is it the coilover, uca, fender well, cv angle etc.? 13” up front:thumbsup:!
     
  22. Feb 10, 2018 at 5:43 PM
    #52
    Samoan Thor

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    Never thought about cutting off the bumps, you’re a wealth of knowledge on this particular setup, thank you. When the budget permits I know who to talk to so my shocks are setup right :thumbsup:
     
  23. Feb 10, 2018 at 7:07 PM
    #53
    PLC721

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  24. Feb 11, 2018 at 7:20 AM
    #54
    jc153

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    Hey Zack @zackbremer I thought the Deaver K37’s had thinner individual leafs than the U748’s? I was under the impression the U748’s were purpose built as a weight carrying alternative to the K37’s not just a modification of them?
    I believe there are 11 leafs on the K37’s? My U748’s have 9 total leafs each. I think both are the same overall thickness at the axle though. Correct me if I’m wrong.
     
  25. Feb 14, 2018 at 7:00 PM
    #55
    zackbremer

    zackbremer [OP] New Member

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    im not sure of the specifics, i just know when i called jeff at deaver i asked for the k37's with 500lb of preload, i told them it was not my daily driver and that offroad performance was my priority and i was told "o yes we've done this set up lots of times we know exactly what your truck need" i was not told id be getting an "overland pack" the u748 were just shipped to me. you are correct mine are 9 leafs, 2 being flat overloads


    im on instagram @asshole_rn i have some videos posted and you can see my rear end "dive boarding" a lil before its even at full compression, i believe this is due to the flat leafs, which i wanted to avoid since i know they have that same effect in the stock leaf pack. im having a local leaf spring company take the 2 flat leafs out re-arch the pack and replace those flat leafs with w.e they need to get the lift and ride right, fingers crossed
     
  26. Feb 14, 2018 at 7:03 PM
    #56
    zackbremer

    zackbremer [OP] New Member

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    yes i have the extended travel coilovers with 700lb springs. i believe once the stock bumps are removed the CV's limit the travel, but im not positive, im not a fabricator and didnt do the install, ill ask my guy who did it. and just so the internet trolls dont get their panties in a bunch over the 13in claim... he cycled 12.7in of travel without any issues, so not a true 13 (eye roll)
     
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  27. Feb 14, 2018 at 7:10 PM
    #57
    TexasTundra27

    TexasTundra27 Moby Dick

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    I didn’t know anyone made a “extended travel” coilover for the Tundras, do you know how much more travel you get over the generic coilovers?
     
  28. Feb 14, 2018 at 7:16 PM
    #58
    zackbremer

    zackbremer [OP] New Member

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    1inch i believe, they are meant to be used with aftermarket UCA as in stock form the UCA are the limiting factor...if you call king or micah at Down south motorsports, then can get you the specifics.
     
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  29. Feb 14, 2018 at 7:25 PM
    #59
    TexasTundra27

    TexasTundra27 Moby Dick

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    Sweet, thanks for the info!
     
  30. Feb 14, 2018 at 7:39 PM
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    zackbremer

    zackbremer [OP] New Member

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    Da Z
    went to RIM RD in payson this monday, and wouldnt you know we lucked out and got some snow what a fun trip, didnt get much of the views you normally get on the mogollon rim but the snow fun more than made up for it

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