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Uptune the detuned SR

Discussion in '3rd Gen Tundras (2022+)' started by FO LO, Jan 22, 2023.

  1. Jan 22, 2023 at 4:25 AM
    #1
    FO LO

    FO LO [OP] New Member

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    If I buy the SR how much longer until someone sells the SR5 tune code to put in it?
     
  2. Jan 22, 2023 at 8:15 AM
    #2
    jgoliath

    jgoliath Northeast Rust Fighter

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    What’s this now?
     
  3. Jan 22, 2023 at 8:38 AM
    #3
    FO LO

    FO LO [OP] New Member

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    I figure it would save me $5k to $8k real world going SR instead of SR5 and have all the same drivetrain parts, towing capacity and HP/torque depending cost of uptune code.

    All id be missing is tow mode I think
     
    Henry1jg likes this.
  4. Jan 22, 2023 at 9:26 AM
    #4
    TexasTacoma713

    TexasTacoma713 New Member

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    I tried to go that route. Was shopping since summer for SR trim.. Dealers would have them on the lot but would only sell to fleet buyers.
     
  5. Jan 22, 2023 at 10:02 AM
    #5
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    Do you know it has the same driveline parts? Even though it makes less power than a SR5, thats not a legit reason for them to derate the towing. Ram Ecodiesels and Ford Powerstrokes can tow >12000 lbs with 250 hp. And a GM 5.3L can do >12k with 355hp/383 torque. That detuned engine would have no issues towing 12000 lbs. The 2015 F150 Ecoboost was towing north of 12000 lbs with just a smidge more hp and torque.

    So, they are either just screwing you over and trying to upsell you into an sr5 or I suspect there is a difference in the powertrain somewhere in an effort to reduce costs to make the base truck cheaper
     
  6. Jan 22, 2023 at 10:17 AM
    #6
    FO LO

    FO LO [OP] New Member

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    This dude said that Mike swerve said it did. Idk

     
  7. Jan 22, 2023 at 10:27 AM
    #7
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    So then they are just screwing everyone :rofl:
     
  8. Jan 22, 2023 at 10:30 AM
    #8
    FO LO

    FO LO [OP] New Member

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    Bells deep
     
  9. Jan 22, 2023 at 11:40 AM
    #9
    FO LO

    FO LO [OP] New Member

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    Yesp chev even stripped 4low out if WT
     
  10. Jan 22, 2023 at 4:52 PM
    #10
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    They stripped it out of all trucks unless you get one of the offroad packages
     
    FO LO[QUOTED][OP] likes this.
  11. Jan 23, 2023 at 8:46 AM
    #11
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    I actually dont know what would happen if you plugged in a JB4 to an SR. The JB4 relies on the fuel trims to account for the additional boost, which the PCM is not aware off. To add 100 hp on the SR the fuel trims would need to be able to add twice as much fuel as the SR5+ trucks only adding 45hp. I would actually check to Burger tuning before trying it. Maybe their tuner is smart enough to detect the difference, or maybe they are able to read a demanded boost PID so they can target a certain percentage above that.

    The other issue is timing. To gain 100hp on the JB4 you would need an incredible amount of octane. Again, the PCM is not aware of the added air load and so its running the same timing it would be at lower boost.
     
    TRD L Power and FO LO[OP] like this.
  12. Feb 16, 2023 at 5:21 PM
    #12
    BMP

    BMP New Member

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    The SR screams, "My owner knows how to build trucks and doesn't need all the fluff! Tires, wheels, suspension, deep gearing, good lockers and a tuner to get me out of valet mode!" LOL

    Brad
     
  13. Jun 6, 2023 at 5:24 PM
    #13
    Houguy1

    Houguy1 New Member

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    I went to a dealer and they told me the same thing, those are fleet trucks. So I went to another dealer and they ordered me one in Magnetic Gray with black interior. I love my truck, it runs great. I am thinking about installing some power adders. I am running 93 octane and it pulls hard.
     
    Johnmatrix likes this.
  14. Jun 7, 2023 at 2:14 PM
    #14
    blenton

    blenton New Member

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    I have wondered this, too. Does Toyota rate the SR MPG higher than the rest of the trims? If so, is the deranging thing simply a way to meet CAFE fleet requirements?

    As far as the nuts and bolts of it, I would think that there is SOME difference besides tuning… but there doesn’t have to be I guess. I don’t think the HO 3.5 Ecoboost has different parts - just tuning. And as you’ve laid out the boost to HP map, it makes sense that it should work. However, I do wonder if the computer is incompatible with the tuning boxes.

    I vote just try it and report back :D You already hacked away to shoehorn those 37’s… what’s a little tuning?
     
  15. Jun 7, 2023 at 2:30 PM
    #15
    DeafJam

    DeafJam New Member

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    Cosmetics for for a pavement princess.
    Probably not.

    Think of the factory tune as an excel table. To simplify, for a given X (throttle/injector duty) and Y (boost) parameter, you get Z (output). They de-tuned the engine by changing how X and Y meet on the table. They likely also soft capped Y. You can ask for more boost using the JB4, but the tables may not have the boost to give you, and if they do, it won’t be the same amount as an engine that hasn’t been de-tuned.
     
    Black widow TRD likes this.
  16. Jun 7, 2023 at 3:05 PM
    #16
    BoulderGT3

    BoulderGT3 New Member

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    If you were Toyota would you warranty the motor in a truck someone else tuned? I wouldn't.
    They have enough issues making their own programming work.
     
  17. Jun 7, 2023 at 3:08 PM
    #17
    BMP

    BMP New Member

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    I am on the JB4 Tech forum and had asked about the response with the JB4 on an SR. Nobody had tried one on ether as well. You should be correct that the Map 1, 2, 3, and so on would apply the same with octanes and such because the "logic" would be the same for an SR as it is for an SR5. The electronic boost controllers are the same for both trucks. Toyota just lmits HP and torque by lowering base boost pressure. The SR will get a sizable jump on Map 1.

    Brad
     
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  18. Jun 7, 2023 at 3:13 PM
    #18
    BMP

    BMP New Member

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    Some of us have tuned EFI systems for years and are probably better than the manufacturers engineers.

    Brad
     
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  19. Jun 7, 2023 at 3:21 PM
    #19
    BoulderGT3

    BoulderGT3 New Member

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    So if you were Toyota, you would warranty the motor?
     
  20. Jun 7, 2023 at 3:24 PM
    #20
    BMP

    BMP New Member

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    In a high boost application even tuned to perfection? I think you already know the answer to that. I take it you are not interested in putting a tuner on your truck?

    Brad
     
  21. Jun 7, 2023 at 3:34 PM
    #21
    BoulderGT3

    BoulderGT3 New Member

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    So your answer is no you wouldn’t warranty it?

    I’m not putting a tune in the truck during the warranty. I just got done getting raked by by Ford in a buyback answering all the modification questions. Right or wrong, you’re easily screwed by a manufacturer if you’ve tuned the truck.

    In defense of the manufacturers, all the tuners think their own farts smell good. There are plenty of tunes that aren’t properly vetted.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2023
  22. Jun 7, 2023 at 3:36 PM
    #22
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    Yes but the way the JB4 is getting there is by spoofing the PCM into making more boost and relying on fuel trims to compensate for the now incorrect AFR. Without knowing how far the fuel trims could compensate, you might be pushing the SR PCM beyond its boundries by forcing it to try and make up for the extra 10 psi. An SR5 or higher is only having to compensate for 5 psi to make the 390 hp.

    And again, the PCM is only aware of the boost the JB4 is telling it. When it goes to look up what ignition timing it should be using, its going to see the factory 15 psi the JB4 feeds it and use that. If there is actually 25 psi going into the cylinder then whatever timing it lands on for 15 psi will be WAY to advanced without a serious amount of octane to compensate. Even on the SR5+ motor, they require you run higher octane with the more aggressive maps.

    There ignition timing "trims" as well in the form of KCLV and Knock Feedback but how far they can compensate is unknown. And if they compensate too far, it may cause the PCM to reduce peak boost. This is what the Ecoboost engines will do if they have lower octane fuel. Not only do you lose ignition timing but you lose boost as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2023
  23. Jun 7, 2023 at 3:39 PM
    #23
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    The 3.5 HO was a bit different up to 2020. It had lower compression ratio(10:1 vs 10.5:1), different pistons, exhaust manifolds and turbos at a minimum. The 2021+ shows the same compression ratio as the regular 3.5L but there are likely other changes.
     
  24. Jun 7, 2023 at 8:35 PM
    #24
    blenton

    blenton New Member

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    Good to know. I was under the impression it was nothing more than pixie dust and 1’s and 0’s. I know they have made several updates to the ecoboost lines throughout the years - such as water cooler jacket modification in the block casting to keep the head gaskets intact. I recall a major update around ‘15 or ‘17 and thought that included your above-mentioned items on all motors across the board. Guess not. The only exposure I get to the 3.5EB anymore is occasionally driving my BiL’s when we visit. But he usually has a different one every time cuz… cam phasers… or something else. Hah. Only half serious about that…
     
  25. Jun 7, 2023 at 9:19 PM
    #25
    Black widow TRD

    Black widow TRD New Member

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    Them cam phasers is a Ford ownership rite-of-passage.

    I had a 3.4 Yamaha Powered SHO Taurus. I had mine welded before they meet their demise….
     
  26. Jun 8, 2023 at 7:10 AM
    #26
    Woocawachie

    Woocawachie New Member

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    I’m surprised no one has tried tuning boxes on the SR. I guess it’s such a small market for this basic model. Oh well… I’m in the same boat, just waiting to see who reviews a tune for it. And hopefully it’s a success so I can buy it
     
  27. Jun 8, 2023 at 10:02 AM
    #27
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    I bet a vast majority of people who willing buy the basic model with less power and towing capacity is not interested in it in the first place.
     
  28. Jun 8, 2023 at 10:35 AM
    #28
    Nashtucky

    Nashtucky New Member

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    I just picked up this 22' SR. Very interested in tuning options.

    IMG_0486.WEBP.jpg
     
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  29. Jun 8, 2023 at 10:46 AM
    #29
    blenton

    blenton New Member

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    Kinda… but the fact that Toyota offered the big motor, tow package, and 4wd on a base level Gen 2 truck was a huge attractor for me. The “equivalent” GM or Ford was $10-15k more when I bought my tundra. I’m sure you could squeeze a few bucks off the price if you ordered some unicorn package but I couldn’t find anything available in 500 miles that matched the tundras capability without the bells and whistles that I didn’t need at the time. Plan was to add a factory magnuson once I paid it off but they discontinued it just before I paid the truck off.

    But I actually looked hard an a Gen3 SR until I realized they were detuned and rated lower. That was the end of the conversation for me as th current truck is so close in power in capability that I opted to hold on to it a while longer.
     
  30. Jun 8, 2023 at 10:48 AM
    #30
    topdec

    topdec New Member

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    From the specsheet, it looks like the SR may have similar torque with the other models at 2k rpm

    SR CrewMax 4x4 shortbed
    i-FORCE 3.4L Twin-Turbo V6, 358 hp @ 5200 rpm, 406 lb.-ft. @ 2000 rpm

    Limited CrewMax 4x4 shortbed
    i-FORCE 3.4L Twin-Turbo V6, 389 hp @ 5200 rpm, 479 lb.-ft. @ 2400 rpm

    The SR is rated for 8,300 lbs towing. If I was towing <6K lbs, I would think that the SR is sufficient. No?
     
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