General Supercharger Thread.

Nice, I’m thinking of doing the same with the maggy intake box.

 

Sweet I have been thinking about doing something similar now for several weeks Only somehow using this 4.5” inch MAF tube off eBay

 

I am surprised the Prospeed intake uses those K&N filters. Everything I’ve read says P0101 code and a K&N when supercharged go together like peas a carrots. I’d try cleaning the sensor with the correct cleaner and if possible find an AFE dryflow filter that can replace the K&N. I’ve only driven it a few times since cleaning my MAF but no codes or issues to report since doing so.

 

1. does the P0101 mean you are max'ing the MAF? are you monitoring the MAF with the SG3?

2. Re IAT:

I'm saying this to address heat soak or something...(I'm stock airbox - wix filter)

Start the truck this morning 80 ambient (90% humidity). IAT = 83

cruise the way to the HWY 5miles....IAT = 104 no boost, just easy driving

get to work 28 miles...IAT = 114 ambient = 83 temp delta = 31


now, when I leave work it will be 95 ambient.
I'll bet my IAT will be ~135-140 delta will be ~40


so, not only are we dealing with simple heat soak. but, we are also dealing with the limitations of ambient air temp. mix in Houston humidity, and you have a damn nice equation.


when the I/C pump stops, you will know.....your IAT will be ~165 degrees.

 

my '96 4runner did the same thing....oily ass filter waxed up my MAF.

 

If you go with the Stillen that tube may be too short. Also the angle may be a problem too but that can be alleviated with the right couplers.

 

You could probably roll your own. Not a lot of room with a catch can, the power steering(?) and the washer fluid. Now I know why Stillen made their design choice on the nozzle.

 

Yes thank you for point this out. I am tracking the same issues from what I've been reading about the filter. Some of the old Stillen threads highlight this too.

I've had no issues with this mounted to the ProSpeed box but it could be the code took a while to pop up. The Stillen came with a dry filter I can run temporarily to see if that fixes the issue.

 

Thank you for the data points. This helps frame expected behavior from a similar set up.

RE: MAF I'll check the MAF voltages on my next test drive. I'm thinking its one of few things trippin the MAF codes: leak or oiled filter (thanks @Silver17 ). Maxing the MAF did not occur to me with the open design of the old box; cooler air could feasibly account for the delta. Would also mean I would need to get the tune tweaked.

RE: IAT I was seeing similar to slight higher numbers with the PS. I think my worse numbers were ~+50 Ambient. It usually settles in around ~30 and slowly trends to 40 over ambient. Once it peaked it rarely dropped down.

On the first run with the new set up would drop to to about ~30 over ambient immediately and stay there.

I'll dick around with it some more tonight and this weekend. Tempted to do the SABM If I pull the box out again but I need to get the MAF issues sorted out first.

 

I think the MAF is probably just a good thing to clean on the regular especially supercharged. Think about it, most of us are using less restrictive air filters and the supercharger is constantly sucking more air in across the MAF Hotwire as long as the engine is running as compared to a NA engine. Makes sense it would get dirty faster.

 

Ya I agree, I get random 101 codes under normal acceleration also

 

Pic!

 

Nows the time if any of you other supercharged guys are looking for solid motor mounts. Group buy going and only 4 slots left. https://www.tundras.com/threads/sol...ount-group-buy-july-2022.109659/#post-2829962

 

I can try and post some pics tomorrow if I get a chance to finish up. Will list out parts I used too.

 

Haha I literally was thinking about these.

 

Think fast! Only 2 spots left! Just picture your Brutal supercharged 5.7 twisting those stock rubber mounts into submission and you’ll be ready to order.

 

Anyone have the part number for the AFE dry that fits that maggy intake box?

 

$84 aFe 31-10146 Air Filter

31-10146 better check my math though. This is the one I have in my TRD branded intake, made by Magnuson, as we all know.

 

"Behold! The Frankenstillen":


A couple of things to note:

1. Its a tight fit with little room for relief. I secured the Stillen using the rear most anchor point. You may be better off using the mid point to allow the box to pivot a tiny bit. You wont get much relief since the box presses against the wiper fluid reservoir.
   
2. The Radium catch can (PCV) and the front "ram air" intake partially occupy the same physical envelop. I ordered the crank case catch can bracket to shift the PCV can over towards the driver-side position.
3. The Stillen box has approximately a ~6.5inch hole for the intake. You'll have to reduce this to your pipe's diameter. Looking at the Stillen's design, their "stock" intake doesn't form an air tight seal.
   
4. I chose a no drill option to reduce the hole. Lots of ways to skin this cat. Parts I used are:
   1. Door seal to line the Stillen hole and press against the duct flange (next part)
   2. A duct connector flange to fit inside the hole. Must be larger than the diameter of your pipe but smaller than the Stillen's hole
      
   3. A roof pipe flasher (rubber boot) to seal the intake pipe and flange
   4. A pipe/hose clamp to secure the flange and boot in a specific position relative to the opening of the Stillen.
5. So if we were looking into the box without a lid, the flange would fit into the door sealed hole with the fat side inside and the neck going through the hole. The intake pipe would fit into the flasher and into the flange. The flasher would fit over the lip of the flange. The flange and the flasher sandwich the box in between them. The pipe/hose clamp hold the flasher and flange in position.
   
6. For "snorts and giggles" I wrapped the metal intake pipe with insulation to keep temps down while idling in traffic. If you are mostly highway/track this won't make a difference for you.
7. If you order the Stillen with the block off plate you may find it difficult to get the open plate between the two coupler hoses, especially if you have an aftermarket grille, catch cans, etc. I ended up getting a 4inch long silicone hose with a 3 inch ID. A 3inch long hose was slightly too short for me but may work for you.

Bonus, my neighbor came over to check things out, he's into nail art:

 

Forgot to mention if you are concerned about water and dust intrusion from the front you may be better off putting a prefilter somewhere over the opening vs. one over the intake filter. I think this is what was tripping my MAF.

You could also do something similar to this:


It uses a duck bill valve to pull water out of intakes on larger vehicles/machines.

Edit: I've seen 3 inch ID couplers with 1 inch BOV necks. The trick is dialing in the duck bill.

 

Cleared the MAF after cleaning, removing prefilter and sealing everything up properly. Kept the oiled K&N in since, as far as I could tell, it wasn't an issue in the PS config.

Fuck yeah @Silver17 for the MAF cleaning tip. No sign of P0101 as an issue so far.

Still getting ~40s to ~50s in traffic/idle but getting mid 20s to low 30s once I get to highway (over 50) speed. Best sustained was +28 ambient @ around 65MPH; lowest # I've seen since the Harrop.

Not discounting the pump yet. Going to test and try and reposition the relay tomorrow.

Planning on running more tests with remote temperature sensors inside the box. Also want to test this in the heavy rain. Filter with the Frankenstillen sits further back and the front intake isn't straight so I don't expect a lot of water to enter the box let alone soak the filter, however, I could see running through standing water causing issues. Doubt it would soak the filter in that case. Dust on the other hand...

Overall I'm impressed with how rapidly temps drop but not seeing anything significantly lower than nonStillen boxes. I wasn't expecting a big drop considering the front intake is fairly small but I'm getting better numbers than the Prospeed without the SABM. MPGs look improved too even after unplugging the battery for a while.

So far I think this is a good alternative to doing SABM for those that don't want to cut the truck's wall.

 

I’d really like to know the RPM our supercharger rotors are spinning at with each pulley size. You know….for nerding purposes.

 

It's a 1:1 drive from the pulley to the rotors. So the rpm is crank diameter/pulley diameter * engine rpm.

From a quick googling the stock crank is ~6". So to do some math with my Magnuson 1900:

Stock 2.45" pulley: 6/2.45*1000 = 2448rpm @ 1000rpm for the engine.
URD 2.345" pulley: 6/2.345*1000 = 2558rpm @ 1000rpm.

The supercharger displaces 1.9L of air per revolution so is pumping 4651 L/min @ 1000rpm from the engine.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but at 1000rpm that's actually 500 power strokes per minute out of the engine. So that's 4651 L/min of supercharger flow being added to 500 * 5.7L = 2850 L/min of flow from the engine (because 4 stroke, so need two crank revolutions to suck air in/expel exhaust, etc.).

So at 1000rpm (which is really a moot point since it's positive displacement, so it's just a linear ratio) with a TVS1900 and stock pulley you have:
1000rpm from the engine
2448rpm from the blower
4651 L/min from the blower
2850 L/min from the engine
2.44x blower/engine ratio
1.63x blower/engine displacement

That doesn't include efficiency losses such as temperature, flow rate, friction (rotors, bearings, etc.), and other factors. We also know that boost does not strictly correlate to power, ie more power can happen with less boost.

Take the following with a grain of salt:

Comparing displacement at face value:
1.63 * 14.7psi = 24psi at the intake manifold
24psi - 14.7psi = 9.3psi higher than atmospheric

I'm not sure if it's that simple, but that would tend to make sense since we know the Magnuson is rated for ~7psi at sea level. Once you factor in efficiency losses, those numbers would make sense.

We also know (or I've been told at least) that there is a non-linear efficiency curve to the supercharger. How I read that is your displacement (L/min) is not linear to rpm. Which matches that chart posted above where we see a non-linear curve when comparing two superchargers despite a linear change in displacement. I was told that is why a 2.345" pulley can see such an increase in boost over a 2.45" pulley despite being only a 5% change in diameter. I don't entirely believe that, but it would explain how you get a 25% boost increase for a 5% pulley change.

Point being, there's obviously a lot of other factors at play and the instant something becomes non-linear there is nothing intuitive about how it scales.

 

Aren't you going to be worried about the dust/water? I'm worried about the stillen box being so opened to the environment that dust and water is going to be an issue for those of us on trails/watercrossing.

 

Well currently I'm more worried about dust and water from having no fender liner since putting aftermarket adv fenders on. I added a pre filter but will need a liner made. I could also add a pre filter sock to that Stillen setup.

 

I ran the larger front opening AFE ram air intake on my s/c Tacoma and never had an issue with water. Filter may get dirtier faster, but that's really all. And if you're going in water crossings that deep probably should just consider a snorkel instead

 

I've yet to tested these extremes first hand but I plan on taking a hose and spraying the front at full blast into the nozzle just to see how water enters the system. Driving through heavy rain appeared to be a non issue; no water entered the box.

RE: Dust: Stillen tested it for dust out in the sand and they reported no issues presented themselves. I don't know how that could be the case in heavier dust ups where your truck looks like a sugar cookie; I would have liked to have inspected the filter after their test. Light to medium dust probably wont be a problem unless you are following very closely to the lead vehicle which presents its own danger. One of the kits comes with a block off plate for the front;a prefilter "sock" is another option for dust and water though I couldn't tell you what brands are good and if to expect MAF issues. I think you are better prefiltering the nozzle vice the prefiltering the filter in the CAI. The smallest inline filter I found was too long to fit without modification but if you find one that is probably your best option.

RE: Water: I think very deep water could be an issue but hard to say since the front intake isn't level or straight. It slightly slopes up and to the left from the grille to get into the box. Even so the water will settle at the bottom of the box and presumably drain out. On the stock Stillen set up the fillter sits about three inches from the the box deck. I think you would have to be blasting through a river/stream at speed to get that volume of water to fill the box faster than it drains if that is even possible to get that level of intrusion.

 

Hmmm, so if I attempt to use this math in my case, the Harrop 80mm pulley is 3.15”, therefore at 1000 RPM it’s at 1,904 RPM, and at 6,000 RPM Redline it’s at 11,430 RPM. Max RPM is 18,000 so it has a lot more revs it could handle for sure. The 1900 with a 2.34” pulley is at 15,348 RPM with an engine speed of 6,000 RPM. Is that right?

The reason I’m interested was I was trying to better understand this graph and determine at what Engine RPM I could possibly be in that max 70% efficient pocket. I still don’t understand how to fully use the graph though, but it appears there’s a possibility it could be in that range between 4,200 and 11,800 rotor RPMs. That translates to between 2k and over 6k engine RPM which is most of the rev range. The graph is more nuanced than I’m grasping though I’m sure.

 

Also, they expanded this group buy to over 10 people now. I have not seen a limit to the number of people who can buy posted, so if anyone was on the fence and all the spots were taken you can now reconsider.

 

Without looking at more than your screenshot, it's kind of hard to know I'm reading it right. The main thing I'm confused by is the Y axis shows absolute pressure (I assume, since the lowest is 1 Bar) at the manifold. So assuming this translates directly to the supercharger, you need to look at how much boost you're making (boost psi / 14.7 psi = X bar), then go over and find the rpm and then that tells you your efficiency. What the efficiency ACTUALLY means is another question though--is that just how much input energy is going to waste heat? That would make the most sense: blower at 10k rpm, and I want 1.5Bar at the intake (~7psi boost), so that's 70% efficient so 30% of the horsepower driving the rotors is going into heat. Your previous chart also listed horsepower to run the blower, so using the two you could come up with how much waste heat is generated. Though that previous chart doesn't match up from how I read it (though again is confusing, like is total supercharger energy required parasitic + required? That seems the only way to read it but that is an efficiency around 50% then---- but if the actual rotor efficiency is 70%, then it's not a stretch to think that the entire system efficiency is 50%).

This is one of those rabbit holes I wouldn't get too caught up in. There are a LOT of variables at play. Don't forget your engine has it's own efficiency curve of hp/fuel that needs to be overlaid. And if you're at WOT @ 1.5Bar then you're actually well outside of the peak rotor efficiency for quite a bit of your rev range. So trying to keep the blower at it's most efficient (if I'm reading it right) is adjusting boost with your rpm. There's a lot of shit at play just at the supercharger system level let alone the entire truck system level. Cool to look at and think about, but extremely complicated and I wouldn't put a lot of faith in the numbers being thrown around once you get into the real world.

Probably the best take away is that spinning the supercharger faster pumps more air but disproportionately will create more heat after 12k rotor rpm. So if you want a LOT of power, you have diminishing returns the faster you spin it. And yet somewhat ironically, if you're making more boost you actually will be more efficient. The blower seems to want to be loaded up the faster it spins, spinning fast and not a lot of boost is extremely inefficient. Just another confusing variable to add (less boost in some instances can have more power, like discussions about headers, but you could actually be making the rotors less efficient---more power, less boost, more heat).