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Hybrid mpg

Discussion in '3rd Gen Tundras (2022+)' started by Dstrahan, Dec 5, 2021.

  1. Feb 2, 2022 at 4:04 PM
    #301
    captainnemojr

    captainnemojr New Member

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    What attracts me is not the MPG, but the 110lbs of torque. However, it's a miss for me. Tundra loses cargo under rear seats and Sequoia loses third row space due to battery location. I like the Hybrid idea, but they should have thought more about the battery location.
     
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  2. Feb 2, 2022 at 4:51 PM
    #302
    Bryced15

    Bryced15 New Member

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    I get it that Toyota may not have had the hybrid efficiency numbers approved yet by the epa when they released the numbers on the non hybrid, but I’m starting to doubt that. It really is funny to me that they waited to release the hybrid mpg numbers for a couple of months after the non hybrid numbers as though there was some kind of build up to something big. I think they should have just released them all at the same time rather that building up suspense for a let down. Especially since the hybrid power train was not designed with efficiency in mind.
     
  3. Feb 2, 2022 at 5:00 PM
    #303
    xc_tc

    xc_tc New Member

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    It seems they’re doing it based on when the vehicle will come off the line. Since the hybrid release time is later, they’re certifying the fuel economy later.
     
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  4. Feb 2, 2022 at 6:21 PM
    #304
    Michaeltom401

    Michaeltom401 New Member

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    That is exactly what the Toyota engineers designed the hybrid truck for, performance, towing, and doing truck stuff not to be a LIFTED Pruis with a bed. I hear Honda is improving their Rigdeline to meet what many on here want, a 30 plus mpg truck good for nothing but light truck stuff and a Honda accord like ride. My neighbor said his new 2022 Tundra gets better fuel economy then his work 2021 F150 hybrid running down the fwy and better towing loads over 6000 lbs. The f150 definitely gets better mpg in the city because he can hyper drive it and stay on the battery. Personally, I drive my truck like a truck is meant to be driven especially when it has over 400 hp.
     
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  5. Feb 3, 2022 at 4:30 AM
    #305
    nuclear

    nuclear New Member

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    How exactly is a truck "meant to be driven"?
     
  6. Feb 3, 2022 at 4:38 AM
    #306
    raylo

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    Yeah, is seems that such a tiny battery could easily have been located elsewhere so as to not delete the under seat storage. Remember this is a 1.8kWh battery in a 20' long 6000# truck. And even though the 2022 Tundra was a clean sheet of paper design the battery location seems like almost an afterthought. Or perhaps a result of the platform being shared by so many different vehicles?

     
  7. Feb 3, 2022 at 4:44 AM
    #307
    Mattedfred

    Mattedfred Toyota Fan Boy Since ‘04

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    Where would you have put it exactly?

    https://youtu.be/kFNivRWzB0w
     
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  8. Feb 3, 2022 at 5:17 AM
    #308
    nuclear

    nuclear New Member

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    Somehow Ford, which is a very similar vehicle, managed to fit it between the frame rails on the Powerboost.
     
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  9. Feb 3, 2022 at 5:29 AM
    #309
    raylo

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    I don't have the drawings and battery dimensions so I can't tell you that exactly. But here's the thing... based on a very rough calculation using my 52V 1.2 kWh lithium e-bike battery that weighs about 8 pounds the Tundra battery will weigh something like (1.8/1.2)*8*5 (the factor of 5 is because the Tundra voltage is 5x the e-bike battery so will have 5x cells in series). That makes the Tundra battery about 60 pounds. It probably weighs a bit more since it is NiMh and not lithium, and probably has a robust case. So call it 100 pounds. There has to be plenty of other places they could have put that in a 6000 pound truck. Wouldn't take all that much thought.

     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2022
  10. Feb 3, 2022 at 5:54 AM
    #310
    gnc1017

    gnc1017 New Member

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    I looked over the Ford Powerboost very closely at a recent auto show to determine just that (how did they solve this issue?). I too don't want to give up that space under the seat. On the Ford, we couldn't find it.

    Finally brought in one of the Ford reps and he didn't know and couldn't find it either. So he looked into it for us and found a cutaway drawing of it. It is sideways under the rear seat just like the Tundra but underneath the cab and above the frame. So pretty sure that's a cab off repair waiting to happen.
     
  11. Feb 3, 2022 at 5:57 AM
    #311
    nuclear

    nuclear New Member

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    So on the Ford you have to remove the cab in 10+ years, while on the Toyota you might need to do it within the first month. :eek:
     
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  12. Feb 3, 2022 at 6:02 AM
    #312
    raylo

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    Might be able to slide out sideways? These are very small batteries.

     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2022
  13. Feb 3, 2022 at 6:03 AM
    #313
    Mattedfred

    Mattedfred Toyota Fan Boy Since ‘04

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    Got any pics or video so we can compare?
     
  14. Feb 3, 2022 at 6:09 AM
    #314
    nuclear

    nuclear New Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  15. Feb 3, 2022 at 6:11 AM
    #315
    raylo

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    Looks like you could pull the muffler and exhaust pipe then tip the one end down and drop it out. Maybe. I wonder what the Ford FSM says?

     
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  16. Feb 3, 2022 at 6:14 AM
    #316
    Mattedfred

    Mattedfred Toyota Fan Boy Since ‘04

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    Thank you very much! So they both sit atop the fuel tank, drive shaft and exhaust system but Ford's sits between the frame and allows for a flatter floor in the rear seat.

    Let's compare the stats then. Toyota uses a 1.8KW NMH battery. Ford uses a 1.5KW LI. can someone post the other stats so we can all figure this out? Ground clearance, fuel tank sized, drive shaft diameter, muffler dimensions etc.

    My initial impression is that Toyota needs to locate the hybrid battery above the frame in order to allow for cooling of the battery through the vent located below the rear passenger seating.

    battery.jpg
     
  17. Feb 3, 2022 at 6:23 AM
    #317
    gnc1017

    gnc1017 New Member

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    From looking at the truck while looking at the pics, I think those chances would be very small if not impossible. However, while I currently drive a Ford, I'm not a Ford tech or engineer so if anyone on here has access to that info or pics, please share.

    Yes, I'm disappointed with where the battery is on the Tundra but when looking at it all very closely, in the end, I think their design overall is very likely the best approach, given the challenges they have with today's technology.

    And while I'll overcome that (6.5' bed, truck box, etc.?), I get that some may not like it and may pass. But I don't think the other brands are the answer. If this is a no go for you now, wait ~3 years or so and the game will change.
     
  18. Feb 3, 2022 at 6:27 AM
    #318
    gnc1017

    gnc1017 New Member

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    Thanks for sharing. This is a different pic than what the Ford rep showed me. Maybe he found a pic of a prototype? Agreed from this pic that with dropping exhaust, driveshaft, fuel tank , etc., could possibly come out from below.
     
  19. Feb 3, 2022 at 6:29 AM
    #319
    nuclear

    nuclear New Member

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    Yeah, although not a small job, it does appear doable without removing the cab.
     
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  20. Feb 3, 2022 at 6:30 AM
    #320
    xc_tc

    xc_tc New Member

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  21. Feb 3, 2022 at 6:36 AM
    #321
    Mattedfred

    Mattedfred Toyota Fan Boy Since ‘04

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    Thank you. Perhaps that's the most significant factor affecting the location. Toyota needed to locate the battery above the frame to facilitate air cooling.

    I recall somewhere someone explained why Toyota chose the NMH over the LI but I can't recall the reason. Maybe it was mentioned during one of the interviews at the launch event in Texas. Was it supply chain issues at the time?
     
  22. Feb 3, 2022 at 6:58 AM
    #322
    gnc1017

    gnc1017 New Member

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    Thanks for sharing and correcting me on the Ford's location. Looks like a better approach than what was indicated to me at the auto show. We did see that box on the actual truck we were looking at and said that was the power on board inverter (that truck had the large size power on board system) but per your info, that is obviously not the case. Good too see that while not the easiest to get to, better than under the cab.
     
  23. Feb 3, 2022 at 10:48 AM
    #323
    xc_tc

    xc_tc New Member

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    Yeah it seems Toyota approach is cost/benefit of lithium vs nickel. Plus I think supply chain issues like you mentioned. I’m sure price of cobalt and lithium doesn’t help either. I guess Toyota figured an air-cooled NiMH battery was enough for most owners and would keep costs down. If lithium added fuel economy, they probably would have gone with lithium instead. For awhile they offered a special FE model of the Prius with a lithium pack while other Prius got NiMH with slightly lower fuel economy. I just checked and now all FWD Prius get lithium and AWD Prius get NiMH. I’m not sure why Toyota does this but maybe cost?
     
  24. Feb 3, 2022 at 10:58 AM
    #324
    raylo

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    I believe that enhancing power & torque vs MPG is more about how they designed the system to operate than the type of battery. I believe we could see better MPG if they programmed it to limit the total hybrid power, say, to the same as the ICE alone and then when battery power was available to throttle back the ICE by 48HP while electric motor pushes its 48HP.... or some proportional amount, to make up the difference. Maybe some clever aftermarket tuning to change the ICE throttle and turbo map and hybrid interface could accomplish that. What would be nice is if Toyota had a "super eco" setting like that built in, then when you towed or needed the extra oomph you could go back to normal.

     
  25. Feb 3, 2022 at 12:40 PM
    #325
    SprinterAE86

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    Just a reminder, in a couple of years, they will introduce all TNG_F platforms as iForce Max Prime and Full Electric. That's where you'll see the mileage to improve. And hopefully the aftermarket industry jump on making an upgrade to the battery in the future to give us better range and even an aftermarket plug-in adapter. Who knows.
     
  26. Feb 3, 2022 at 3:12 PM
    #326
    1UP

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    Last edited: Feb 3, 2022
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  27. Feb 4, 2022 at 2:24 PM
    #327
    Rwaters

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    https://youtu.be/OFLTBPuedjk

    Not a bad video at all. I know it’s not a Tundra hybrid but it helps put this whole debate in perspective. At least mine.
     
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  28. Feb 5, 2022 at 3:22 AM
    #328
    SprinterAE86

    SprinterAE86 New Member

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    That was a great test. I live in a small island, in a small city and quiet hilly in some places with max of 100kph speed limit. Hybrid will be best suited for my needs, but the numbers on the non hybrid is really a step up from all my previous Tundras and current Sequoia. I just have to justify the premium cost of the Limited iForce Max from the SR5 Off-Road.
     
  29. Feb 5, 2022 at 5:02 AM
    #329
    Rwaters

    Rwaters New Member

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    Yeah for sure. I think our current plan as of right now will be to hold onto the Tundra, get the 23 Sequoia and then upgrade my 22 for the Max. If all the numbers make sense ($ and mpg)

     
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  30. Feb 5, 2022 at 5:14 AM
    #330
    raylo

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    Not buying this test at all. I know he tried to follow the same procedures but that ridiculous 35 MPG for the Ford shows that his methods are questionable at best and that brings into question all the results he presents. The test needs to be repeated and the results need to be repeatable.

     
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