Hybrid mpg

No need for that. It will be what it will be. And if it turns out near as good as you believe... and proves out in the real world... that may make it more attractive to me. It does look like a great system.. except it is strange using a metal hydride battery. I didn't know anyone used anything but lithium.

Not sure if anyone here remembers but this sort of hybrid system has been done before, WAY back in the day by Honda. When Toyota and others came out with MPG oriented systems Honda took a contrarian approach. They had a hot rod version of the Accord with a ~275 HP V-6. They added a hybrid version that used the exact same powerplant but with a hybrid boost. Same power plant, small battery, primarily meant to add power on demand. Sound familiar? I didn't go back and look up the MPG numbers but the hybrid's weren't much better... but it did have that extra 40HP or so boost.

That concept was not successful mainly because the baseline car was already fast enough. Makes more sense with the Tundra where that boost can help loaded or towing, especially up hills.

 

Good idea.

https://youtu.be/OBpaOVh6pXY

 

The nickel metal hydride battery is probably not helpful. Toyota picked it because it’s cheaper than lithium ion. They’re going to charge more money for their hybrid, that costs them less to make increasing their profit margin.

Unfortunately that leaves us with a battery that is significantly heavier, and less powerful for its size than lithium ion. In addition to the first two negatives nickel metal hydride is not capable of discharging as rapidly or recharging as rapidly. So in reality it’s going to be less powerful and less responsive. Then there’s the issue of nickel metal hydride batteries and “battery memory” when discharged too much. That 1.87kW is possibly going to be like a Toyota fuel tank….. claims to have capacity but you can’t actually use it in practice.

 

Metal hydride is certainly the cheap choice but the charge and discharge rates should be fine if designed for the installed motor generator ratings. The main issue is less power density so more weight... but with such a small battery pack even that difference is a very small % of a Tundra's curb weight or GVW. And maybe life? I dunno. But it is probably enough battery for the designed boost function, and probably cheaper to replace.

 

The TRD Pro is a solid 4 seconds slower to 100 mph than a Ford PowerBoost. That is an eternity, and tells me the iForceMax isn’t delivering on that extra power.

 

Some of that is weight. Remember a lot of the Ford is aluminum. Tundra is porky heavy metal. May also be some gearing differences.

 

Some of you guys are confused about regen and what it is. Nearly all hybrids regen when coasting and braking. Plus, the engine is shut off usually. This is the way the F150 powerboost works and likely how the Tundra hybrid will work.

 

Yup, coasting IS regen braking. On some cars' systems you can select the level. Some prefer max regen, some prefer a more normal braking experience. Point is if you are on the throttle even the least bit, even going down hills, you have no regen.

 

Doesn’t the gen 3 have a composite bed and some aluminum panels now to make it lighter?

 

Yes

 

Hybrids don’t have to be coasting or braking to regen.

 

This is true too. They can send engine power to the battery while driving. The hybrid system decides when it’s best to start recharging the battery using the gasoline engine. I wouldn’t necessarily call it regen though since most define regen as recapturing lost energy like braking energy. Below is an example of Toyota hybrid energy flow showing the battery charging.

 

Yeah but it still uses a lot of steel. I was curious and noticed a lot of steel parts still. What’s interesting is the front doors seem to be aluminum but the rear are steel. Plus there are a lot of overbuilt parts. Have you seen the front sway bar?

 

Yes, sure, but that is not "free" like braking or coast braking. So this is not really regen but active charging that uses additional fuel.

 

Even coasting is not “free” if there is regen. Decelerating from just aerodynamic and mechanical drag would be more efficient than regen due to whatever losses may exist in the drivetrain and battery. Braking is definitely the best form of regen.

 

When I say "coasting" I mean you have the system set to go into regen braking when you lift off the throttle. Many cars you can vary how much to get the brake behavior you want.

 

???

Not sure what you’re trying to say… from what I know of Toyota hybrid system, there is a fixed amount of regen during coasting (accelerator off, brake off) and a varying amount of regen during braking that’s decided by the hybrid ecu based on how the brake pedal is pressed (blending of regen and corner brakes to give the desired braking force). We’re getting off topic here though…

 

Some hybrid and BEV systems allow you to select the amount of throttle off regen braking via the driver interface. You read stories of people who hyper mile these things to drive and stop without ever using their brakes by relying almost entirely on throttle-off regen braking. They do this because people coming from standard vehicles may not like the sensation of getting too much slowing when they lift the throttle. It's a trade off between feel and efficiency. And you can adjust it later to get more (or less) regen effect. I don't know how the Tundra will be set up. But I suspect that the Tundra is so massive, and the battery and motor/generator so relatively small, it may not matter and you won't even feel any throttle off regen. So I assume it would be fixed.

 

Control amount of regen with brake pedal pressure.

 

I think I get what you’re saying now. Don’t know any hybrids that do this but definitely lots of BEVs that have those settings. The Ford MachE has 3 options, high regen (feels like braking when accelerator off), low regen (feels like a gas engine vehicle), and no regen (pure coasting, deceleration from aero and mechanical drag only). Tesla used to have high and low regen option but I heard a reflash eliminated the low regen option.

As far as I’ve seen in my buddy’s F150 hybrid there’s no option to change regen when accelerator is off. It also feels like any other vehicle and not heavy like a Tesla. I expect the Tundra hybrid to be the same as the Ford since the systems are nearly identical.

 

Just got off the phone with my dealer in Canada who had the TRD Pro training today, he stated 11.2L/100km Combined for the TRD Pro. 21MPG ish ?

 

LOL. That’s fucking lame if true.

 

Lift, all terrain tires, 33s, no air dam ... seems about right for combined. The regular hybrids will likely be a lot better.

 

That would be about right for the non hybrid if it were offered.

As I was. “combined” number. If it hit’s that combined it may be acceptable.

 

30 mpg was always an impossibility. Someone on the internet threw it out there and it stuck.
The lighter F150 Powerboost only gets 24 mpg (worse now, 2022 Powerboost estimate is 23 mpg). I mean, even diesel half-tons are barely pushing 30 mpg hwy and diesel has about at most ~20% more energy per gallon than gasoline.

If we do the math, that means RAM’s 29 mpg hwy for the diesel is roughly equivalent to 23~24 mpg of gasoline energy density.

 

Diesel fuel is roughly the same as gas for energy by mass. However, diesel fuel is denser than petrol and contains about 12% more energy by volume.

Diesel gets ~30% better MPG, because the they are also more efficient, mostly due to higher compression.

 

If this is actually true, who in their right mind would ever buy one? It would be absolutely pointless in my opinion.

 

I couldn’t find any figures for diesels but V35A-FTS thermal efficiency is 37%. That’s very diesel-like. I’d be surprised if any production 6-cyl diesel exceeds 40% thermal efficiency.

 

Because that's lifted, larger heavier tires, skid plates, no air dam, etc vs the hybrid non pro

 

I'm sorry but I'm afraid I'm not following you.
The TRD Pro only comes with the iForce Max engine, therefore it's a hybrid. Other trims are available with the iForce Max hybrid engine. The point that I'm trying to make is that if any 22MY hybrid only gets 21mpg combined, why would anyone in their right mind ever buy one?
Are you saying that the TRD Pro comes with a lot of stuff that people want, regardless of whether it has the iForce Max or not? Couldn't you just get an SR5 TRD OR CM short bed, then lift it, install the OEM TRD skid plate and larger tires for way less money and get almost the same mileage?