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Ar47 build/ progress

Discussion in 'Guns & Hunting' started by Cummins3500, Oct 22, 2021.

  1. Oct 22, 2021 at 3:19 PM
    #1
    Cummins3500

    Cummins3500 [OP] Never finishes.....

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    Been wanting to do an ar47 for awhile. The palmetto state ks47 lowers and uppers been out of stock forever though. Finally got the notice they were back in stock. Let the building begin!

    parts ordered and shipped so far

    upper:
    *Gibbz arms side charger w/gen 3 latch
    https://www.gibbzarms.com/product/g47-side-charging-upper-receiver/

    lower:
    *Palmetto state ks47


    Barrel:
    *Faxon firearms 7.62x39 10.5in gunner profile.
    https://www.righttobear.com/faxon-firearms-10-5-7-62x39-gunner-barrel-carbine-15a78c10ngq/
    ~gonna have the m4 feed ramps cut into single trough ak style.

    *palmetto state armory ks47 10.5 barrel
    https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-gen2-ks-47-10-5-carbine-length-7-62x39-1-10-nitride-barrel.html


    Rail:
    * SLR rifle works Ion 10” Lite MLOK Handguard
    https://slrrifleworks.com/ion-10-lite-mlok-handguard/

    *Gasblock: SLR rifle works sentry 7 set screw adjustable gas block
    https://slrrifleworks.com/sentry-7-set-screw-adjustable-gas-block/

    *Gas tube: Lantac nitride carbine length gas tube
    https://www.opticsplanet.com/lantac-ar15-nitride-carbine-length-gas-tube.html

    *Muzzle brake: Surefire war comp
    Surefire warden w/ quick connect
    https://www.surefire.com/products/suppressors-division/muzzle-devices/warcomp-flash-hider/


    https://www.surefire.com/products/suppressors-division/muzzle-devices/warden/



    And this where it gets interesting, PSA basically uses a proprietary bolt and barrel extension for there complete guns. Bolt carrier is cut to slide over ak magazines, and the feed ramps on the barrel are a single trough ak style instead of the m4 feed ramps. Downside, can’t ever Catch them in stock. Enter the ba*ta*d build of a bolt carrier group below.

    bolt carrier group:

    *complete bolt carrier group: psa ks47 gen 2

    https://palmettostatearmory.com/new...-7-62x39-nitride-bcg-with-tc-e-extractor.html

    *bolt carrier: MGI Hydra arms modified carrier
    https://www.mgi-military.com/store/index.php?product_id=54&type=&category=11

    *bolt and ejector: Rock River arms Lar47
    https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=1730

    *Extractor: Rubber City Armory extractor
    https://rubbercityarmory.com/product/7-62-x-39mm-replacement-extractor-assembly/


    *Gas Keys: Rubber City Armory adjustable
    https://www.righttobear.com/rca-adjustable-gas-key-1ad-gky/

    *Ned Christiansen Optimized Carrier screws
    https://www.weaponoutfitters.com/ned-christiansen-ocks-screws.html

    *Gas Rings: Right to bare enhanced
    https://www.righttobear.com/enhanced-one-piece-helical-gas-ring-h-gr001/

    *Firing Pin: Right to bare enhanced
    https://www.righttobear.com/7-62x39-ar15-enhanced-firing-pin-ehfp/


    Misc:
    *BCM extractor spring Upgrade
    https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-extractor-spring-upgrade-kit/

    *Rock River arms firing pin retainer pin
    https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Rock-River-AR-15-Firing-Pin-Retaining-Pin-p/rra-ar0030.htm

    *Law tactical folding adapter
    https://www.opticsplanet.com/law-tactical-ar-folding-stock-adapter-gen-3-m.html

    *Strike Industries optimus modular weight ar buffer
    https://www.wingtactical.com/firear...-industries-optimus-modular-weight-ar-buffer/

    *Sprinco extra power ar10 carbine buffer spring
    https://www.wingtactical.com/firear...nco-ar-308-extra-power-carbine-buffer-spring/

    *Phase 5 tactical 90 degree ambi selector switch (grey)
    https://www.wingtactical.com/firear...parts/phase-5-90-degree-ambi-safety-selector/

    *Troy Folding Battle sighs w/ m4 front sight
    ~https://www.wingtactical.com/access...ts/troy-industries-folding-rear-battle-sight/

    ~https://www.wingtactical.com/access...ts/troy-industries-folding-rear-battle-sight/

    *phase 5 tactical mini m-lok handstop
    https://www.wingtactical.com/firear...egrips/foregrips/phase-5-mini-m-lok-handstop/

    *Lantac enhanced take down pins
    https://www.lantac-usa.com/product-page/copy-of-ups-s-ultimate-takedown-pin-set-stainless-steel

    Pistol grip:
    https://www.wingtactical.com/firear...ps/fab-defense-rubberized-pistol-grip-agr-43/

    Trigger: hiperfire hipertouch reflex
    https://www.hiperfire.com/product/hipertouch-reflex/






    Ak ars are an animal all their own. But done a lot of reading on known issues. I know they’re hard on extractors but I think this will be a solid setup.

    Thoughts, suggestions, criticisms etc. are welcome





     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2023
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  2. Oct 23, 2021 at 6:27 AM
    #2
    Cummins3500

    Cummins3500 [OP] Never finishes.....

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    Pictures of said parts as I get em

    *Gibbz arms side charging upper
    8EA97FE0-4758-49EA-B32D-45EE00F471EE.jpg
    DAC0F17C-5154-4799-80EA-8C4DE85B5B89.jpg
     
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  3. Oct 23, 2021 at 4:15 PM
    #3
    Cummins3500

    Cummins3500 [OP] Never finishes.....

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    Got my lower today from palmetto state
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2023
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  4. Oct 30, 2021 at 3:21 PM
    #4
    Cummins3500

    Cummins3500 [OP] Never finishes.....

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    302CE1C8-CFD9-4ADA-94D9-D924B239B87F.jpg SLR rifle works 10 in ION Lite MLOK.

    *Found a local shop to modify my barrel feed ramps. I’m just waiting on RRA to send out my bolt, extractor, and injector.
     
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  5. Oct 30, 2021 at 3:33 PM
    #5
    alb1k

    alb1k Always Coming From Take Me Down

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    It's good
    oooh, side charger...
     
  6. Oct 31, 2021 at 1:18 AM
    #6
    Damie Street

    Damie Street New Member

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    Eagerly waiting the completion. You have me wanting to to a similar build. Love the side charging. I have a GSG16 and it has a side charge. Wanted to do a AR9 build so may as well. Thanks for the information on the companies.

    Looks good so far.
     
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  7. Oct 31, 2021 at 5:54 AM
    #7
    Wallygator

    Wallygator Well Zippedy Da Do!

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    Subscribed :thumbsup:
     
  8. Oct 31, 2021 at 8:12 AM
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    Cummins3500

    Cummins3500 [OP] Never finishes.....

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    Those GSG’s look fun as hell.

    There’s a lot of good options out there for side charging ar9. Gibbz arms and Foxtrot mike are 2 solid options with good reputations. Thing I like about Gibbz is they offer 2 different handle styles for their side chargers
     
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  9. Nov 2, 2021 at 6:54 PM
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    Cummins3500

    Cummins3500 [OP] Never finishes.....

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    Little set back with Rock River Arms, emailed to see what my ship times were and was told the extractors are on back order with no eta. Got them to drop the extractor from the order so my bolt and ejector will be shipping out tomorrow. Just gotta order an extractor now


    *edited, extractor ordered from rubber city armory, and original parts list updated
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2021
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  10. Nov 5, 2021 at 6:15 AM
    #10
    DuramaxLT4

    DuramaxLT4 New Member

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    I stumbled upon this build a couple weeks ago as i was doing some research on my own for this exact build and had many of the same parts picked out. I am only awaiting a few parts to complete the build that should be arriving by early next week. I actually picked up the lower yesterday from my local FFL and quickly did a fit up of the parts. I will provide more details on the exact parts i purchased later on when i get a moment but i wanted to mention one thing that i noticed.

    I did not see what magazines you plan on using, but my AK Pmags do not work with the RRA BCG, i did however happen to have a US Palm AK30r mag that came with my WASR10 and that cycles very nicely, haven't fired the gun yet as i don't have a gas system on it yet.

    I will update once i received those parts but quickly i am running PSA lower like you, gibbz side charging upper with gen 3 latch and complete RRA BCG (im interested to see if i need enhanced firing pin etc)

    I am very excited to put this together because i love the AR platform but love the cost of 762x39 steel ammo as i do a fair amount of shooting from time to time.
     
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  11. Nov 5, 2021 at 7:15 AM
    #11
    Cummins3500

    Cummins3500 [OP] Never finishes.....

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    @DuramaxLT4 awesome I’ll be looking forward to comparing what works and what doesn’t.

    I’ve got a mixture of surplus mags, tapco’s, and Magpul’s from my ak47. I figure it’ll be a little trial and error to see what the gun likes.

    Couple questions:

    1: Do you know if that RRA carrier is cut for ak magazines? I can’t find anything that says one way or another. I’ve got the contact info for a machine shop in South Carolina that ak cuts bcg’s if you end up needing it. I’m hoping my MGI carrier makes a difference.

    2: which barrel did you go with?
     
  12. Nov 5, 2021 at 8:05 AM
    #12
    DuramaxLT4

    DuramaxLT4 New Member

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    @Cummins3500

    1. Not sure what you mean by cut for AK mags but i emailed Gibbz support and they told me they only knew of the PSA and RRA BCGs that work with AK mags, but there is a lot of small difference between different mags, i can take a picture of the US Palm mag compared to a PMAG and there is a pretty major difference where the magazine interfaces with the BCG. The PMAG is a PITA to seat, easpecially with a couple rounds in the mag and its impossible to cycle the bolt with the mag in, whether its empty or not

    2. For the barrel i went with Green Mountain rifle Company, i was going to go with Faxon but they had no 16" barrels in stock, and Green Mountain is local to me in NH so i went with them, nothing fancy and fitment is fine. I am also going to see if i can get away with not modifying the feed ramps...

    https://www.gmriflebarrel.com/gm-m10-16-7-62-x-39-mm-ar-barrel-1-9-5/

    Just got a tracking update that the rest of my items minus muzzle brake is getting delivered today so hopefully ill be able to get off a few rounds this weekend and test everything out.
     
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  13. Nov 5, 2021 at 8:49 AM
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    Cummins3500

    Cummins3500 [OP] Never finishes.....

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    @DuramaxLT4, I think there just milling the lips of the carrier out to slide over the ak mags a little better. Psa, red star arms, MGI Hydra, and billet rifle systems offer ak cut carriers. PSA’s gen 2 bcg is a milled carrier and 2 of the lugs on the bolt are chamfered. There suppose to be working on a stronger extractor setup, per a psa rep on the forums. But there’s no eta on it.


    https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Which-Bolt-Carrier-Group-for-a-KS47-type-build-/121-709124/

    https://palmettostatearmory.com/forum/t/ks47-bcg-help/6263/5

    https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Billet-Rifle-Systems-BRS47-BCG-Question/121-753551/

    One of those threads mentions the Rock River bcg, and no issues with it. So I don’t think that’ll cause you any issues. I’ll be curious to see your thoughts on the feed ramps, I’m still looking for a gunsmith locally to modify mine. Be awesome if I don’t have too.
     
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  14. Nov 5, 2021 at 11:17 AM
    #14
    DuramaxLT4

    DuramaxLT4 New Member

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    Ok thats what i figured you were eluding to, I'll have to take a look at the BCG tonight when i get home, from my memory i didn't really notice any extra machining in those grooves compared to standard 556 BCG but ill look and put them side by side, but perhaps that's why it doesn't like the PMAGS because its tight up against the mag.

    Ill get some pictures of the extractor/lugs as well compared to 556/223. More to follow...
     
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  15. Nov 5, 2021 at 11:05 PM
    #15
    DuramaxLT4

    DuramaxLT4 New Member

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    I was able to put most of the gun together but ran into a small problem with what i believe to be a defect in the machining of the gas block, but i think i can fix it pretty easily tomorrow, below is the list of parts i bought:

    Lower Receiver:

    PSA KS47 assembled lower - I will swap out the stock with another Magpul option with a friction lock
    https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-gen2-ks47-complete-moe-ept-lower-receiver-black.html

    Upper:

    Gibbz G47 side charging upper with Gen 3 latch
    https://www.gibbzarms.com/product/g47-side-charging-upper-receiver/

    BCG (Complete):

    Rock River arms PN AK0032BGRPC
    https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=1730

    Barrel:

    Green Mountain Rifle - 16in - Carbine gas length (Does NOT come dimpled for gas block)
    https://www.gmriflebarrel.com/gm-m10-16-7-62-x-39-mm-ar-barrel-1-9-5/

    Gas System:

    Gas Block - Aero Precision Adjustable
    https://www.opticsplanet.com/aero-precision-adjustable-low-profile-gas-block-w-aero-logo.html

    Tube - Aero Precision Stainless Carbine
    https://www.opticsplanet.com/aero-precision-gas-tube-carbine-length.html

    Handguard:

    Special OPs Tactical Disintegrator 11" (I need to machine off the anti rotation tabs since the Gibbz upper is thicker than standard AR Upper)
    https://specialopstactical.com/product/disintegrator-11-m-lok-rail-system/

    Sights:

    Just went with simple fixed iron sights for the time being - I have an A2 carry handle from one of my other guns in some of the pictures

    Front - https://www.opticsplanet.com/leapers-utg-ar15-super-slim-fixed-low-profile-front-sight.html
    Rear - https://www.opticsplanet.com/leapers-utg-ar15-super-slim-fixed-rear-sight-picatinny.html

    Muzzle Brake:

    OSS QD Brake in 5/8-24 (For use with my OSS Suppressor)
    https://www.opticsplanet.com/leapers-utg-ar15-super-slim-fixed-rear-sight-picatinny.html

    Grip:

    Form3d Firearms Titanium 3D printed grip (A family friend is one of the co-founders of the company) Its a unique part that is surprisingly strong and it fits my hand very well as i have a couple of these
    https://www.form3dfirearms.com/product-page/tidal-series-ar-grip
     
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  16. Nov 5, 2021 at 11:41 PM
    #16
    DuramaxLT4

    DuramaxLT4 New Member

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    Now onto details regarding the operation so far.

    BCG Details:

    RRA BCG is definitely cut differently to accommodate AK mags verse standard AR 5.56/.223 BCG
    20211105_214926.jpg

    Firing pin is also different, RRA at left regular one from another AR15 at right
    20211105_215125.jpg

    20211105_215136.jpg

    20211105_215145.jpg

    The firing pin extends further out of the bolt and to penatrate the primer of the AK round not sure how this compares to the enhanced firing pins available, to me this seems very much like an enhanced pin.

    Standard firing pin in RRA Bolt

    20211105_215243.jpg

    RRA firing pin in RRA bolt - You can see it sticks out a fair bit more

    20211105_215258.jpg

    RRA firing pin in a standard AR bolt for comparison - sticks out the same amount as in the RRA bolt

    20211105_215313.jpg

    Bolt face comparison - RRA at top

    RRA extractor is quite different in thickness and one of the lugs at the 1 - 2ish oclock position has a chamfer on it

    20211105_215023.jpg

    Magazine Operation:

    PMAGs definitely do not work without modification at least in my case, i compared the PMAG and the US Palm mag i have and dimensionally they are the same except at the top where the magazine contacts the BCG, there is a taper the the US Palm mags that makes all the difference, pictures below. With the PMAG seated and bolt closed it takes a tremendous amount of force to pull the bolt back and when i do it does not close back up and gets stuck as it makes its way back towards the barrel and comes in contact with the magazine.

    The gun also cycles nicely (by hand) with the standard 2 independant feed ramps, so im hoping when i fire the gun it will continue to operate nicely and i will not have to have them ground into one single large feedramp.

    US Palm Mag - You can see the chamfer at the top, and at the very top of the magazine the width it .625" wide and tapers down to .5"
    20211105_235110.jpg

    20211105_235227.jpg

    The PMAG on the other hand is one .500" at the top and this is where it interferes with the BCG

    20211105_235103.jpg

    20211105_235301.jpg

    Below pictures show where the interference is, i put some copper antiseize so i could identify where the interference was, it doesnt look like much but that but makes it inoperable

    20211105_235040.jpg

    20211105_235058.jpg

    I don't know what other magazines out there look like as my AK platform experience is very limited and my overall AR knowledge i would consider to be average at best, someone may have luck with PMAGs but in my case they simply do not work.

    Hopefully i can get the gas block squared away tomorrow and fire off a few rounds to check initial operation.

    20211105_232856.jpg
    20211105_232931.jpg
     
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  17. Nov 6, 2021 at 2:14 AM
    #17
    Cummins3500

    Cummins3500 [OP] Never finishes.....

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    @DuramaxLT4 :yes: your making better progress than me. That’s interesting about that bcg. It’s definitely modified for sure. I’ve come across a couple people while researching parts with over a 1000 rounds on their rock River. They don’t mention magazines. I’d think it’s safe to safe Magpul’s are off the table. Looks like that’ll be a surplus mag gun. I’m anxious to see a range report. One consistent complaint people have is the guns seem to be over gassed, but you’ve got an adjustable gas block. I think your gonna have a good setup personally
     
  18. Nov 7, 2021 at 2:57 PM
    #18
    DuramaxLT4

    DuramaxLT4 New Member

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    Just a quick update i was pretty busy this weekend doing yard projects but i was able to fire off 12 rounds or so real quick today and the gun ran flawlessly, no feed issues, primer strike issues etc. Not a whole lot of rounds of course but it was nice that the gun ran without issue. Hopefully this coming weekend i can spend some time sighting in the gun and put a few magazines worth of rounds through it. I bought 5 more US Palm mags so hopefully those will come in during the week.

    I still need to do a few things to the gun to make it 100% but so far very promising collection of parts.
     
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  19. Nov 7, 2021 at 4:45 PM
    #19
    Cummins3500

    Cummins3500 [OP] Never finishes.....

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    @DuramaxLT4 awesome, sounds like your gonna have a decent bit of time behind yours before I get mine finished. Looking forward to more reports and thoughts. I’m still waiting on some small parts to arrive. My bolt should be here tomorrow though and from there a few misc. little parts I decided to add last minute.

    What brand ammo you gonna be shooting through it? Mostly steel case? Gonna keep any extra extractors on hand?

    you like that psa trigger?
     
  20. Nov 8, 2021 at 7:28 AM
    #20
    DuramaxLT4

    DuramaxLT4 New Member

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    Hopefully your parts come in sooner than later. As far as ammo i bought 1k rounds of "7.62x39 FMJ 124 Grain WPA Wolf Ammo - Military Classic - Made in Russia by Barnaul - FMJ Projectile" from SGAmmo a while back so that's what I have and I plan on only shooting steel through the gun, the whole reason i bought an AK in the first place was to shoot cheap ammo, so this gun will be the AK replacement.

    I guess it wouldn't hurt to keep some extra extractors on hand just in case.

    As far as the trigger it feels pretty decent, way better than your standard mil-spec AR trigger, i actually did buy a Rave140 trigger for the gun but it doesnt fit without modification but im not sure if that trigger would strike the firing pin hard enough and the standard trigger i think is pretty decent so i might just leave it alone seeing as this platform may be sensitive to a lot of different factors so instead of changing parts and risking reliability i'll just keep it as is.
     
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  21. Nov 19, 2021 at 4:35 PM
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    Cummins3500

    Cummins3500 [OP] Never finishes.....

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    So I don’t have any major updates for the gun it’s still in pieces.

    Pro tip: if you go down this rabbit hole, and put out abunch of “notify me when back in stock” feelers. Once you have your parts quit looking at them when they say back in stock.

    thanks to those things, I have 2 extra bolts :rofl:I picked up a faxon firearms bolt because I knew it would match the barrel in a head space check. Well then I got the notice today that the new PSA ks47 bcg was back in stock and ordered it too. So I’ll outfit the faxon with an enhanced firing pin and throw it in the mgi hydra carrier. I’ll build the Rock River out and put it up as a spare:anonymous: or I might have a solid excuse for a 16 inch build lol
     
  22. Dec 12, 2021 at 7:48 PM
    #22
    DuramaxLT4

    DuramaxLT4 New Member

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    Tony
    I have an update, I was able to quickly go through a 30rd magazine this afternoon and the gun did not feed reliably. I think the gun needs the feed ramp modification as I experienced 4 or 5 rounds jamming while cycling. I took a video of me firing a few rounds and you can see the BCG not cycle as the round was getting stuck while it failed to properly feed into the barrel.

    On a positive note, gun is relatively accurate out of the box, I was shooting at 8in targets at roughly 75 yard with iron sights hopefully i can get a bit more time to zero in the gun but with just bolting on fixed sights the gun isn't too far off.

    Also I didn't experience an light primer strikes so only issue so far seems to be the feeding/feedramps, time will tell. I will look for a local gunsmiths to do the feedramp mod and then put some more rounds through. Then I can put more rounds through the gun.


    https://youtu.be/jtcorwBge-Y
     
  23. Feb 5, 2022 at 5:57 PM
    #23
    Cummins3500

    Cummins3500 [OP] Never finishes.....

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2020
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    #40729
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    Logan
    Vehicle:
    2006 tundra double cab, 2014 Cummins 6-speed manual
    Finally getting to update this thread. This the only ar I’ve ever built that has hard parts changed before the gun was even put together.

    the faxon barrel and bolt are in the spare parts pile so I don’t have to have a barrel modified. PSA’s barrel came in stock along with their complete bolt carrier group. The spikes dynacomp got swapped for a surefire set up

    idk why I even bothered buying a complete lower. I swapped the grip, take down pins and trigger out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2023
    B.Ross, Damie Street and THORYOTA like this.
  24. Feb 8, 2022 at 10:52 AM
    #24
    DuramaxLT4

    DuramaxLT4 New Member

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    @Cummins3500

    Glad to see you got her all together, and yes parts for this build are not easy to find and source. I actually had the feedramps modified on my gun and the gun shop doing the work test fired 30 rounds through the gun after without a single issue. Unfortunately i picked up the gun and im out of town for a few weeks and wont be able to shoot it myself. I will post some pictures and an update when I get back home. Until then hopefully you can get out and put some rounds through yours.
     
  25. May 20, 2022 at 5:59 PM
    #25
    Cummins3500

    Cummins3500 [OP] Never finishes.....

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2020
    Member:
    #40729
    Messages:
    1,066
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Logan
    Vehicle:
    2006 tundra double cab, 2014 Cummins 6-speed manual
    Been tinkering with my setup, the springco spring come out, up’d the buffer weight to a full h3, and the hiperfire trigger has a set of 7.62 springs installed. Last little bit of fine tuning will be done through the gas block this weekend.

    This thing is quickly becoming one of my favorite guns

    *if I had it to do over again, a company called rifle speed is making the perfect gas setup for one of these guns. It makes tuning a gun some much easier
    https://www.riflespeed.com/RIFLESPEED-Gas-Controls-750_p_12.html
     

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