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Best Tow Vehicle & Daily Driver

Discussion in '3rd Gen Tundras (2022+)' started by Mattedfred, Nov 2, 2021.

  1. Nov 2, 2021 at 8:07 AM
    #1
    Mattedfred

    Mattedfred [OP] Toyota Fan Boy Since ‘04

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    Hello,

    My wife and I are looking to replace our current 16' travel trailer with a 25' Airstream Flying Cloud RBT with an empty weight of 5700 lbs, hitch weight of 850 lbs and a GVWR of 7300 lbs.
    Our current tow vehicle is a 2012 Tacoma 4WD V6 4 door with the 6' bed.
    We're looking to replace our tow vehicle and have been researching our options, so I thought that I'd join this forum and solicit some opinions.
    Living in Canada we usually only get out with the trailer for a dozen trips every camping season. Most of our trips are within a 4 hour drive (Killbear, Awenda, Inverhuron), except for a longer trip we usually do every September that can be up to 4000 km round trip. (Cambridge to Atikokan, Gaspe, Tadoussac or Kapuskasing)
    Other than that our truck is the vehicle I drive to work most often. (150 km round trip, on average less than twice weekly)
    We don't have any kids or pets.
    When fully loaded we carry a few hundred pounds of gear. (16' superlight canoe or two 10' kayaks, generator, portable solar panel, small BBQ, extra 20 lb propane tank)
    I'm partial to Toyotas because we've been Toyota owners since 2004 and are now on our 4th. We put over 420,000 kms on our 2005 Echo.
    Our 2012 Tacoma was our first truck and we bought it solely for it's towing capacity. Otherwise, I have no need for a truck.
    We're environmentally conscious, having replaced our Echo with a 2017 Prius a year ago.
    We aren't fans of all the bells and whistles and the modern tech features don't appeal to us.
    We aren't fans of new vehicles because of their depreciation. The only new vehicle we've owned in the last 28 years was the 2005 Echo.
    Our goal would be to keep the new tow vehicle for 15+ years.
    Our goal is to replace our current travel trailer by Summer 2023. We'd prefer a January 2020 or newer Airstream so if we find a used one we'd have to act quickly and could have the trailer anytime. If we bought new today then we're currently looking at 12-14 months from now.

    Therefore, I'm currently researching the 2022 Tundra, 2013-2017 Tundras (I like the single cab, 8' box), 2022 Rivian R1T, diesel trucks and am interested in learning the specs for the 2023 Tacoma.

    I'm concerned about all of the engineering in the 2022 Tundra, the poorer gas mileage of the used Tundras, the lack of repair facilities with the Rivian, switching brands by choosing a diesel and that the 2023 Tacoma won't have enough towing and payload capacity to suit our needs.

    I appreciate any opinions or advice.

    Ted
    Cambridge, Ontario Canada
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2021
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  2. Nov 2, 2021 at 8:25 AM
    #2
    Downytide

    Downytide New Member

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    Hey Ted, I'm in Durham and drive around same area.

    Most of us haven't had extensive experience with the new truck, so reliability part is hard to comment, Ford just stopped production on diesel F150s since the hybrid achieves same performance, GM's mini-duramax is not trouble free and the premium on it is silly, same with Ecodiesel, Ecodiesel's terrible throttle response is borderline unsafe, not to mention now we pay $1.40/L for diesel, will probably have to drive A LOT to make up the purchase costs.

    I like my tundra a lot, it's not as trouble free as I thought but for what I do with it, I can't complain, fuel consumption is on-par with my old Ram Rebel (current gen).

    I had camp at Killarney with Tesla before, one problem is lack of proper charging grid, we almost went dead cause the nearest supercharger station had a line up, that would be my biggest concern about towing with EV right now.
     
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  3. Nov 2, 2021 at 8:30 AM
    #3
    frichco228

    frichco228 Valued Member

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    Tacoma is out, not enough capacity for what you will be towing. 2022 Tundra will be nice and handle what you plan to do.

    The v8 tundras, depending on configuration could suit your needs, reliable, good power and as you said, V8 MPG.

    I would not recommend any 1/2 ton diesel. Step up to a 2500 series if you need diesel towing. Dont think you will be happy with the 1/2 ton diesels. Complex, read of issues with them.
     
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  4. Nov 2, 2021 at 8:33 AM
    #4
    Mattedfred

    Mattedfred [OP] Toyota Fan Boy Since ‘04

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    Hey Downytide,

    Thanks for the prompt reply. I lived in Walkerton in the mid 70's and we've been tubing and kayaking the Saugeen the last few summers.
    Jealous you got up to Killarney this year. We haven't been there in way too long. We paddled Temagami again this year.

    Anyway, what year is your Tundra? What kind of mileage have you been getting? My wife got 2.9 L/100km on our Prius this summer if you can believe that!

    I know we'd have to completely change the way we travel if we went for the R1T, (preplanning and trips will take a lot longer) but we have to change if we're going to try and help this planet.

    These next generation vehicles just have so much engineering, tech and convenience items in them all I see is things needing to get repaired or replaced over time.
     
  5. Nov 2, 2021 at 8:46 AM
    #5
    Mattedfred

    Mattedfred [OP] Toyota Fan Boy Since ‘04

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    Thanks for your prompt reply Frichco228!

    I gather you're not expecting the towing capacity of the 2023 Tacoma to increase enough when compared to the current generation?
    I know the 2022 Tundra will handle it but it comes with a lot of moving parts and tech for someone looking to keep it for over 15 years.
    Regarding the smaller diesel trucks, I recently watched a TFL video where they did a towing comparison between several trucks and the GMC Canyon diesel had better mileage than the rest. It also seems to have good reliability according to some groups. However, I'm very wary of switching brands, mostly due to my positive experience with an area Toyota dealer's service department.
     
  6. Nov 2, 2021 at 8:51 AM
    #6
    Lake.Life24

    Lake.Life24 New Member

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    Daily Driver your best bet is a 1/2 ton gas. Pick any brand you want. They are all pretty good. I am sure the new tundra will be awesome.

    I daily drive an HD truck and its fine, but I know its not for everyone. If you were towing 8k+ all the time then I would say jump to a HD
     
  7. Nov 2, 2021 at 8:58 AM
    #7
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Young men never die.

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    If the hitch weight was lower, I would recommend the 2016-2017 Tundra with the 38 gallon gas tank. However, 850 lbs of probably about 2/3 of the payload capacity and that's before you've put anything in the truck or trailer. Other than the hitch weight, that trailer seems like a good size for a halfton. As mentioned above, I wouldn't tow it with a Tacoma or other midsize. Based on the hitch weight alone, you might consider a 3500 (as those are typically available in the RCLB) but it won't be as nice for daily driving. Any chance of finding another trailer in a similar size with a lower hitch weight?
     
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  8. Nov 2, 2021 at 9:10 AM
    #8
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    Ummm,not a single one of us has had even a ride in the new truck.
     
  9. Nov 2, 2021 at 9:24 AM
    #9
    frichco228

    frichco228 Valued Member

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    2022 tundra has up to 1940 payload, depending on configuration. I do recall seeing a chart posted in the 2022 forum here listing the payload for each configuration, but it is something you would have to search for. So yes, the 2022s increased payload across the board. Generally the doublecabs tend to have more payload vs crewmax, and think it is the same for the 2022.
     
  10. Nov 2, 2021 at 9:27 AM
    #10
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Young men never die.

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    I think the actual increase for comparable trims is only a few hundred pounds, though. It's not like you're going from 1200 to 1900 if you buy a 2022 instead of a 2nd Gen.
     
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  11. Nov 2, 2021 at 9:47 AM
    #11
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    I think you outline it pretty well and really the bottom line is that we cant really know just yet except for the existing Tundra and how it might handle the Airstream.

    There is just no info yet about any of your other options as listed.

    My needs are about exactly as you listed for yourself too and that sort of rules out my interest in the new Tundra sadly.
    I can not imagine being OK with any EV for work really and the small Diesel options really suck too.

    All of the tech in newer trucks is exactly the opposite of what I want too,I just want simple.

    The MPG sucks for sure but otherwise I am happy with my 2015 and just need to keep it going now as long as I can.

    I bought mine for the same reasons you talk about really and while the Airstream are talked about being a pretty easy and smooth tow the numbers are still pushing things a little bit for a Tundra too.
    Well mine does have a 2K Payload and great ride and handling too but good luck finding one too,Im not sure they ever sold them in Canada even?


    12165AD9-E9A4-4CC3-B79D-11943FF5B8EE.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2021
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  12. Nov 2, 2021 at 9:55 AM
    #12
    Downytide

    Downytide New Member

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    mine is a 2021 with few changes to better deal with towing (and make it just bit more fun), with basic gears and 2 people I'm around 14 to 15L/100km, when towing 9000lbs I'm at 20L/100km.

    You shouldn't be afraid of newer vehicles, they are more complex but also more durable, if you are keen for Toyota, I'd just opt for a crewmax with 6.5ft bed SR5, keep it simple and enjoy the extra interior room.

    for EV's, since Kawartha highlands is my family's fav area, there's almost no charging station so it makes little sense for us.

    there's few here work for Toyota directly or indirectly.
     
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  13. Nov 2, 2021 at 10:00 AM
    #13
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    And you dont think my comment is spot on anyway?
    We have ZERO experience thus far in the new trucks,rides maybe but little else.
    If you have different experience then we are sure all waiting to hear about it here!
     
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  14. Nov 2, 2021 at 10:03 AM
    #14
    Mattedfred

    Mattedfred [OP] Toyota Fan Boy Since ‘04

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    Thanks for all of the advice and opinions folks. Would very much appreciate it if this thread didn't get sidetracked and being able to remain focused on my original post. Imagine if people communicated on online forums the way the do if they were all sitting in the same room together.
     
  15. Nov 2, 2021 at 10:08 AM
    #15
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    Assuming you are talking to me?
    I think it is clear that we just dont know yet what the new truck will really do and until we see it is tough to just know if will work as they claim or not.

    On the other hand have you seen the review on Youtube where they do drag a big Airstream around with one? Not sure I remember the size or model to compare with the one in your dreams but maybe?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP3A2bxb7Ms
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2021
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  16. Nov 2, 2021 at 10:29 AM
    #16
    Terndrerrr

    Terndrerrr guzzling dealer repellent

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    Some thoughts after reading the OP:

    • If you don't want a brand new truck and you're partial to Toyota, you're kind of stuck with a 2nd gen Tundra (2007-2021). The downsides are payload rating and fuel economy. The double cabs with the 6.5' beds have marginally better payload ratings than the crewmax trucks with the 5.5' beds, but the double cabs also have slightly lower gross weight ratings.
    •For example, my neighbor has a 2020 Limited double cab. Same TRD Off Road 4x4 package as my 2021 crewmax SR5.
    • His GVWR/payload = 7100lb/1300lbs.
    • My GVWR/payload = 7200lb/1270lbs.
    • Toyota's ratings are calculated based on the empty weight of the truck with full fluids. The language on the door jamb states that occupants and cargo are not to exceed XXXX lbs. This means that you, your wife, any gear in the cab or bed, the weight of your hitch, the hitch weight of your trailer–all that together can not exceed the payload rating on the door jamb.
    • Regarding the double cab vs crewmax argument: if we're strictly sticking to Toyota's ratings (which most people do not), you'll notice that my neighbor can put 30 lbs more in his extra foot of bed space. o_O
    • A big v8 usually gets marginally better towing fuel economy than a TTv6, but unloaded the TTv6 is usually substantially better. Not sure this is a consideration for you, as you would have to buy brand new in order to get a TTv6 Toyota truck. And even then, trim vs trim, it will only have 300-ish lbs more available payload.

    • These 2nd gen Tundras are heavy trucks. Most of their GVWR is eaten up in their own curb weight. This is why they have low payload ratings. A 7300 lb trailer's tongue weight (730-1100lb depending on how it's packed) will eat up most of your available payload. Whatever else you plan to pack/haul with you would be better served packing into the trailer instead of the truck bed or cab. Since you're hooking up more than half of the truck's stated rating, you should invest in a weight distributing hitch. (keep in mind the weight of the hitch itself also must be counted and reduces your available payload.)

    My personal opinion:
    (1) I would choose a slightly smaller trailer. A 2nd gen Tundra is capable of pulling what you want, no doubt. But you will have left yourself very little room for anything else. And it's not because of the towing rating; it's because of payload. Full disclosure: I go over payload ratings on a regular basis when we go camping. We pack all our gear in the bed and don't tow. I'm usually a couple hundred pounds north of my GVWR. It doesn't bother me (or the truck). But towing is a different story, and I won't advise others to do the same.
    (2) I would choose an HD gasser, probably a 2016-2017 Sierra 2500. It will pull more, but the real difference is that it is rated for over 2x the payload of the Tundra. Seeing how I love my Tundra and I don't love any of the domestic vehicles I've owned over the years, I'd choose a smaller trailer just so I could keep the Tundra.​
     
  17. Nov 2, 2021 at 10:39 AM
    #17
    Mattedfred

    Mattedfred [OP] Toyota Fan Boy Since ‘04

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    Thanks very much Terndrerrr!

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Toyota discontinued the regular cab model in 2017. The specs for an SR with the 8' box is 10,300 towing and 1990 payload. Even the double cab SR5 version with the 8' box is 10100 and 1700.
    If I went for something like this I think I'd have more than enough capacity for the 25' Airstream?
     
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  18. Nov 2, 2021 at 10:41 AM
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    Retired...finally

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    Shifting the load to drop 100 # from the tongue means finding 100# midway between the ball and axles and moving it aft of the axles the same distance. Thats not easily done....If'n my math is correct.
     
  19. Nov 2, 2021 at 10:41 AM
    #19
    ezdog

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    Thats what it says on my door jamb.
     
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  20. Nov 2, 2021 at 10:49 AM
    #20
    Cock-A-Doddle-Do

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  21. Nov 2, 2021 at 11:06 AM
    #21
    Coal Dragger

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    I wanted a faster vehicle so I also bought a Chevy SS... because 4 door sedans with big V8’s are hilarious.
    Ted,

    If your environmental concerns are as strong as implied, the best bet for a daily driver you can also use for outdoor recreation would be something like a RAV4 Prime with a roof rack for your kayaks.

    Sell your travel trailer, don’t buy a new one at all, and embrace tent camping or better yet nice hotels in the vicinity. You will burn far less fuel, emit far less CO2, probably save a considerable chunk of money. An additional upshot is that your average speed A to B on vacation or long weekends will be way higher since now you no longer need to tow a travel trailer.

    The other 95% of your mileage (kilometereage?) every year will be at a far more efficient rate of fuel consumption, with commensurately lower emissions; and since you don’t need a truck you won’t miss the Tacoma much less a much larger Tundra.

    If that option is unpalatable, and you simply must have a travel trailer the Rivian is probably going to be challenging to tow with if any real distances are involved. Your use case involves distance, and if past performance of Tesla batteries are an indication of likely performance of other EV’s the range will be slashed by 1/2 to 2/3 while towing, depending on your area and towing set up, along with how fast you want to go.

    The current crop of diesel 1/2 tons aren’t perfect:

    The Ram is in… well it’s in a Ram; a company with a history of making below average quality cars (they can rename themselves Ram but they’ll always be Dodge to me). Their recent mergers with Fiat and Peugeot to create Stelantis doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. The US maker of shit boxes is now merged with the Italian and French shit box specialists…. tell me again how quality is going to improve?

    The GM 3.0L Duramax is supposedly really nice if you get a good example. They’re having a lot of trouble with cam position sensors or cam reluctors or something resulting in cranking but not starting. Plus they utilize some scheduled replacement components like the oil pump is belt driven and it’s at the back of the engine block requiring the transmission to come off to service it.

    The current Tundra is a known quantity, albeit with a low enough payload you will have to be careful with your new trailer and how you load the truck and trailer. Otherwise very reliable, if thirsty.

    The Ford and GM gas 1/2 tons are generally pretty good as long as you stay on top of maintenance. Which you should for any vehicle.

    The Nissan Titan is also worth looking at, although I have no personal experience some of my coworkers own them and like the gas 5.6L V8.

    Wish we could give you real first hand observation of the 2022 Tundra but we can’t. If past performance is an indication of future performance at least on the reliability front the 2022 should be excellent. All the numbers are there to accomplish your trailer weight, and fuel efficiency should be better than the current truck. If you want the hybrid Tundra you’re going to have to wait, and buy a bunch of tech and options you don’t want in order to get it.

    Good luck.
     
  22. Nov 2, 2021 at 11:27 AM
    #22
    Mattedfred

    Mattedfred [OP] Toyota Fan Boy Since ‘04

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    Thanks for all of the quick replies folks. I'm reading all of them. Much appreciated!

    I'll clarify further by stating that we'd like to make an environmentally conscious choice when deciding which vehicle to purchase in order to tow that 25' Airstream. We don't want to purchase anything more than we need. We are willing to make not so insignificant changes to our extended road trips if we went with an EV and are aware of the significant impact on range when towing.

    I was figuring that I'd need a tow vehicle with at 9100 lb towing capacity and 1500 lb payload that is reliable and gives me the best gas mileage. That's how I came up with my list of vehicles to research.

    I guess we aren't expecting the Tacoma to jump from 6500 lbs to 9100 lbs by 2023 so it being on my list is just wishful thinking.

    We are planning to use a weight distribution hitch and to use it properly but those Airstream hitch weights aren't light. However, their lower centre of gravity and design reportedly give a better ride.

    And, we tented exclusively for 25 years. We still do 6 nights in the tent on our annual backcountry canoe trip. We bought our first trailer 6 seasons ago and the upgrade to the 25' Airstream will take us into retirement.

    Another option I have not completely discounted is buying a used EV for my daily driver and the tow vehicle just for towing. Our insurance company would love us for that.
     
  23. Nov 2, 2021 at 12:24 PM
    #23
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Young men never die.

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    Yeah, I was talking about looking at a different trailer, not loading it differently to artificially reduce the tongue weight, which can be dangerous.
     
  24. Nov 2, 2021 at 12:57 PM
    #24
    Retired...finally

    Retired...finally Utilizing that doctorate of procrastinatory arts

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    Understood. Seems trailer manufacturers make the tongue weight a bit on the heavy side to begin with. Probably lawyers snooping in on the engineering department. WDHs can help distribute that weight but help very little in the payload column. I'd love to own an Airstream of that size but not while owning my Tundra.
     
  25. Nov 2, 2021 at 2:01 PM
    #25
    Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger New Member

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    I wanted a faster vehicle so I also bought a Chevy SS... because 4 door sedans with big V8’s are hilarious.
    If you have the financial wherewithal and flexibility to just buy a tow vehicle, your new travel trailer, and a fuel efficient or electric daily driver that might be worth exploring.

    If that is the route you go, my suggestion is pick your trailer and then pick out the truck to pull it. Sounds like you have chosen your trailer, so you are doing it in the right order. At 7300lbs of GVWR on the trailer with an unloaded tongue weight of 850lbs you’re up near the limit of what most people consider responsible and effortless with a 1/2 ton.

    The 2022 Tundra will do what you need it to, but a basic 3/4 ton gas V8 from GM, Ford, or *throws up in mouth* Ram will probably tow your new Airstream better. That same 3/4 ton with one of the big diesels will not even know the trailer is back there. It might be worth your time, once Tundra pricing is available, to spec out a basic 3/4 ton 4X4 vs a 2022 Tundra. You could just keep your Tacoma as a daily if it’s paid off why not?
     
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  26. Nov 2, 2021 at 2:11 PM
    #26
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Young men never die.

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    OP, if you're considering 2500s, may as well spend $2k more and get a 3500.
     
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  27. Nov 2, 2021 at 2:17 PM
    #27
    Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger New Member

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    I wanted a faster vehicle so I also bought a Chevy SS... because 4 door sedans with big V8’s are hilarious.
    Yeah explore all those options, if it’s just going to be a tow rig might as well make it a proper tow rig.
     
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  28. Nov 2, 2021 at 2:25 PM
    #28
    pnw_rcutv

    pnw_rcutv New Member

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    Worth mentioning is the new 1/2 ton Duramax received some revisions and their tow capacity is greatly increased, nearly to 13k lbs in certain trims. The direct competitor being the GMC AT4 is close to 12,000lbs and I believe close to 1,600lb payload. I have seen that 3.0 is currently on "pause" in Production right now but speculation is there have been cranking issues and also some bad block casting issues that were plaguing certain 2021's. This vehicle was on the top of my list because like you I tow my utility trailer/UTV all over the PNW multiple times per month and have a 6,500lb trailer I also tow for extended camping trips.

    My 2c - I have test drove the following: new Ram Ecodiesel, I currently own a 5.7 Hemi, my father owns an Ecodiesel but is tuned by GDE (extra power, mpg, less soot, etc.), 2021 GMC AT4 3.0 Duramax, and *gasp* 2020 Ford Raptor. I have also spent lots of time in a Tundra. With that said, my opinion is this: the 21 AT4 drove the best albeit pre-refresh the interior was less than stellar. The 3.0 Duramax is an impressive engine to say the least. I fully expect the 22+ refreshed model to be a good seller as the previous ones already are. If diesel worries you their 6.2L gasser is probably the best 1/2 ton engine available in my opinion and it's very reliable. The Ram has the best interior by a continental mile, I mean it's not even close. It rivals some of the BMW M cars I've had in the past. The problem for me is the 5.7 HEMI much like the Toyota 5.7 is an archaic engine. It does well, pulls well, is simple, but gets horrid MPG both unloaded and towing. The ecodiesel in stock form now past all the EPA scrutiny has horrid throttle response and just feels plain gutless. However, a simple EPA compliant tune from GDE wakes them up incredibly. For reference, we just towed about 5k lbs of wood over Snoqualmie pass here and it got 23mpg round trip :eek2:

    I won't mention the Raptor as it's not great for towing but I will say it's an impressive driving truck for sure! For towing, personally I'd choose a 22+ Tundra or the 22+ AT4 with a Duramax or 6.2 V8. Those are top of my list having driven all of them short of the new Tundra. I think the real question in my mind is this, do you think GMC AT4 will be more reliable in their 4th year of Production or Toyota in their 1st year of a complete redesign? I would generally say the latter but that could be a reach some, who knows. Hopefully that helps somewhat as I'm shopping for very similar needs as yourself.
     
  29. Nov 2, 2021 at 2:42 PM
    #29
    Terndrerrr

    Terndrerrr guzzling dealer repellent

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    Here’s the weight capacity page from the 2015 manual for regular cab 8.1’ long beds. If you search Toyota Tundra 20XX owners manual, you’ll find a link to download any model year’s manual on Toyota.com in the first few pages. The regular cab has great payload ratings. From the same manual, the double cab long bed 4wd has a max capacity of 1475 lbs.
    BFBB3528-FABC-48BA-8ABE-55ACD5515D71.jpg
     
  30. Nov 2, 2021 at 3:56 PM
    #30
    pvsprme

    pvsprme New Member

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    I have a 2017 Tundra, Double Cab TRD Off Road pkg, 4x4. Tow a 22’ Artic Fox TT that weighs 5200#’s dry; before you add the propane tanks, awning, dual batteries, on-board 3.5 Kw generator. Probably pretty near 6K lbs total. Don’t know the hitch weight but the truck tows it nicely with plenty of power and braking. I do use a weight distributing hitch. On a 4K mile round trip to Jasper and Banff that included the Icefield Parkway I got 9.8 mpg. Sorry, you can figure L/Km online. Average unladen highway mpg is 16-18. Not great but in-line with other trucks with comparable engines. I wouldn’t hesitate to tow that Airstream with it.
    I’d be very cautious buying a diesel, they are great when running and $$$$$ when repairs are required.
    I tent camped for years but once in our ‘60’s the wife wanted a bathroom and a shower and a real bed. One thing about Airstreams is they hold their value. A friend has one about the same as you are considering and the exact same Tundra as mine, no problems towing. I wouldn’t go any larger.
     

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