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The fix for short front oem lugs (Aftermarket Studs)

Discussion in 'Wheels & Tires' started by Mrf1987, Oct 23, 2020.

  1. Oct 23, 2020 at 12:05 PM
    #1
    Mrf1987

    Mrf1987 [OP] New Member

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    Hello all,

    Recently I purchased 5 Relations race wheels RR5-V for my 2020 crew cab sport. Upon test fitting the wheels I discovered that the new conical lugs only allowed me to thread the lugs on 6 turns on the front and 10 on the back. Now i know some will say they run their setups like that and its fine it did not set well with me. I had multiple people tell me to buy E.T. lugs like gorillas or the method ones or toytec, but the bore on the lug hole of the wheels would not allow for an e.t. lug to work. I would have had to machine out the lug bores on the wheels for the e.t. lugs to work. Another reason i went the route I Did is because I have seen many E.T. lugs fail and lock the wheels on the hub when trying to do a tire rotation. I Also had read that people used dorman studs on their trucks but one part#610-471 is 9/16 thread pitch and i didn't want to have different thread lugs on the front and back.
    The Other dorman part#610-004 recommended has too small of a knurl on it. The ones i received had a 15.95mm knurl vs the oem 16.5mm(one member says they work but I wanted to be as close to oem as possible)

    Here is my fix....

    The process is very easy to remove oem studs and install new ones. About 30mins per side for an average mechanic.

    Step 1. Jack up truck and remove wheel.

    Step2. Remove 12mmm and 10mm and the 18mm bolts holding the caliper on and put caliper up on the upper control arm out of the way.

    Step3. Remove rotor (not bolted down) may need a deadblow hammer for older trucks.

    Step4. Using a small sledge hammer or air chissle, put a open ended lug nut on oem stud (if you want to keep from messing up the threads) and hit the stud a few times. They come out very easily.

    Step5. Put new stud from back side and using some washers or a bigger nut than the lug and an open ended lug nut(I got some 14x1.5 off Amazon for $15.) line it up straight and using an impact draw the stud in until the back side is flush with the hub (drawn all the way in) it helps if you use a little anti seize on the lug and the contact face between the lug and washers or nut.

    Step6. Install rotor caliper and wheel.

    I purchased 11 (1 spare) of these lugs from https://www.blackhawkjapan.com/products/kyo-ei-sblc-1
    They are oem 14x1.5 thread pitch with the factory knurl of 16.5mm. It allows about 1/4" or 8 more threads than the oem stud. Here is the best part! After install I was able to still use the Oem rim and lugs for if I ever need to go back to oem wheels. These studs are made in japan and seem to be better quality than the dormans I purchased. These lugs are expensive @ $150 shipped to me from japan and they only took about 6 days to get to me on the east coast.

    lug.jpg
    New lug and old lug as well as bag with new part#
    lug2.jpg
    Oem lug vs the new lug
    wheel2.jpg
    RRW wheel with oem lug (very small amount of lug Available)
    lug3.jpg
    New Lugs being installed
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2022
  2. Oct 23, 2020 at 6:05 PM
    #2
    Shifless Joe

    Shifless Joe New Member

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    Had the same issue on my '07 4Runner, but I ended up finding some extended lugs that worked perfect.
     
  3. Oct 23, 2020 at 7:31 PM
    #3
    Kanobi13

    Kanobi13 New Member

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    All that for rims to get on? Did you let the manufacturer know? How final product come out?
     
  4. Oct 24, 2020 at 4:57 AM
    #4
    Mrf1987

    Mrf1987 [OP] New Member

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    yes “All that” for me to install the new rims to my safety liking. The wheel company is aware, many people run the wheels how they come. If you look into it the tundras have a very small purchase amount of stud from the factory. Most Every aftermarket wheel for them either requires an et lug “which is not as strong as an regular lug without et”. Or you deal with only 6-7 threads engaging on the front. To me it was worth the short time it took to install new lugs rather than worry about it every time I’m rolling down the highway.
     
    tundra_20 and a_double like this.
  5. Oct 24, 2020 at 5:08 AM
    #5
    Kanobi13

    Kanobi13 New Member

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    Where are you getting info that the et nut is not as strong? I ordered my et from RRW when i tried to order there forged line.
     
  6. Oct 24, 2020 at 5:22 AM
    #6
    Mrf1987

    Mrf1987 [OP] New Member

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    The info comes from my Backround in machining along with general mechanical aptitude. I’ll explain it like this. The clearance between the aftermarket lug bore on the wheels and the stud “In most situations” is about 10-15 thousandths. Now take that extended part of the lug and look at the thickness of the extruding part. This is the part that inserts into the wheels and bites on the lug therefor creating “more thread engagement”. This is not satisfactory especially when most aftermarket lugs are made of cast sub par quality metal. You will see many posts about et lugs breaking at the extended part. That part of the lug is too thin to provide the adequate clamping force during demanding situations.
     
    tundra_20 likes this.
  7. Oct 24, 2020 at 6:53 AM
    #7
    Kanobi13

    Kanobi13 New Member

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    Thank you i will sleep better at night! How did wheels turn out?
     
    Mrf1987[OP] likes this.
  8. Oct 24, 2020 at 6:56 AM
    #8
    Mrf1987

    Mrf1987 [OP] New Member

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    I haven’t gotten them on the truck yet. My kings are supposed to be here Monday, that’s the final piece I’m waiting on. I’m doing the rrw rr5v wheels/toyo rt 35’s/jba upper control arms/rear toytec shackles/rrw weld your own sliders. I’m ready to get it done haha.

    7B6AD19F-7636-4A2B-93EC-5EC27941438D.jpg
     
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  9. Oct 24, 2020 at 7:03 AM
    #9
    Kanobi13

    Kanobi13 New Member

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  10. Apr 25, 2021 at 4:53 AM
    #10
    fixnfly

    fixnfly New Member

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    Thanks for the doing the research!
    I have a set of method 316's on the way and I wanted to use something more reliable than the ET lugs.
    I have a set of the recommended ET lugs and the material in the ET portion is a little thin. I just do not trust them.
     
  11. Apr 25, 2021 at 12:05 PM
    #11
    Burdturger

    Burdturger New Member

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    Thanks for posting this. I just ordered some as well. FWIW, couldn't find these anywhere else other than the site you listed. Hope it doesn't take too long but I'll report back when I get them in
     
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  12. Apr 25, 2021 at 1:27 PM
    #12
    fixnfly

    fixnfly New Member

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    I did some measuring today. There is only about 1/8" more available thread on the rear compared to the front.
    The OEM lugs are the same P/N front and rear. The difference is from the thicker front rotor hub.
     
  13. Apr 25, 2021 at 1:39 PM
    #13
    Cruzer

    Cruzer Wheeling Full Size

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    Make sure NOT to over tighten/over torque the studs when you press them in. My suggestion is to have a piece of paper handy, and as the stud head gets close to making contact with the metal plate stick the piece of paper in between and when you no longer can move the piece of paper then it’s pressed in at the right amount.

    Otherwise this will happen to you. 4 studs snapped off when I went wheeling in Moab.

    D95FE7D3-7349-4D4F-8F31-203739A63512.jpg
     
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  14. Apr 25, 2021 at 2:04 PM
    #14
    15whtrd

    15whtrd Mr. Blonde

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    Do you think installing them while using a torque wrench could work? Hopefully you don’t have to exceed 100 ft lbs
     
  15. Apr 25, 2021 at 5:35 PM
    #15
    Cruzer

    Cruzer Wheeling Full Size

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    It’ll work but you still need to eyeball when the stud makes contact with the plate. Also, use WD40 to lubricate the stud’s threads to reduce friction otherwise you’ll damage the threads. Make sure to use a solvent to clean off the threads afterwards.

    I found using a bunch of large washers worked best but when you’re on the trail you have to improvise:

    7D924FCD-6AEC-4932-9300-C193670BF051.jpg
     
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  16. Apr 29, 2021 at 3:48 PM
    #16
    Mrf1987

    Mrf1987 [OP] New Member

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    I found it was best to use some anti-seize on the knurl and some on the threads as well as the mating surface where you have contact between the lug and whatever spacer you are using to draw in the stud. I used a larger acorn style lug that was larger than the new studs and used my milwaukee 1/2" impact to draw the studs in flush. Dont kill it use common sense. its a very easy job to complete.
     
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  17. Apr 30, 2021 at 2:28 PM
    #17
    Burdturger

    Burdturger New Member

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    Wow i can't believe this but I ordered these on Sunday, they shipped from Tokyo on Wednesday and here it is Friday on the east coast and I have them in hand. Have to say that is more impressive than Amazon delivery.
     
  18. Oct 15, 2021 at 10:13 AM
    #18
    a_double

    a_double New Member

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    This tool might interest the folks on this thread:

    https://www.lislecorp.com/specialty-tools/wheel-stud-installer

    I too believe going to aftermarket wheels with conical lug seats makes lug thread engagement an issue. I'm glad to find this thread.

    Are people just doing the front lug swap?

    Good to know the factory wheels and lugs fit with the studs posted by the OP.
     
    2mchfun likes this.
  19. May 17, 2022 at 11:42 AM
    #19
    Toe404

    Toe404 just a poser

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    Those are nice studs but at 165 shipped to CA that’s a little pricey. Are there any other known options for longer studs that are a little cheaper?
     
  20. May 17, 2022 at 11:44 AM
    #20
    Mrf1987

    Mrf1987 [OP] New Member

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    I scoured the internet and local parts stores. The closest i could find in the dorman was not a great fit and was also a standard thread pitch not metric. I was not wanting to have 2 different thread patterns on the truck.
     
  21. May 17, 2022 at 11:56 AM
    #21
    Toe404

    Toe404 just a poser

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    I suppose in the grand scheme of things, dropping 170 on lugs to reduce the odds of my wheels coming off and having a 50k truck smash into the pavement really isn’t so bad lol
     
  22. May 18, 2022 at 1:37 PM
    #22
    Torque

    Torque New Member

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    Access Tonneau,RCI skid,ADARAC M-Series,Fox 2.0,scratches
    Any issue with replacing the rear studs as well? Could spend $130 on Amazon for the 9/16 studs and replace them all.
     
  23. May 18, 2022 at 2:05 PM
    #23
    Toe404

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    I still dont understand how I can buy something for 65 dollars and shipping cost $99.90o_Othe weight cant be that heavy nor the size.

    I ended up getting these studs from eBay. ill measure and compare them to a stock stud to make sure they will work properly.

    ad states they are 69.85mm long where as the stock lugs are 51.11mm long and the knurled portion is measured at 16.5mm, same as stock. we will see once they arrive.

    at $53 shipped its a lot cheaper than the Japanese alternative.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1648760436...MI1ObnrZHq9wIVV8LCBB2f0gvIEAQYAyABEgJFjfD_BwE
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2022
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  24. May 25, 2022 at 12:12 PM
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    MyActualName

    MyActualName New Member

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    @Toe404 did these work for you?
     
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  25. May 25, 2022 at 12:13 PM
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    MyActualName

    MyActualName New Member

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    @Mrf1987 thanks for the awesome write up! This helps tremendously.
     
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  26. May 25, 2022 at 12:17 PM
    #26
    Toe404

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  27. Dec 14, 2022 at 9:43 AM
    #27
    jproy12

    jproy12 ¯\_ (ツ) _/¯

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    Reviving an older post, how have the studs held up in the past months/years @Mrf1987 & @Toe404? From what I've found, the '22+ Tundra seem to be using the same studs as previous Gen Tundra's and I may want to do this to my '23.

    Another question, is there sufficient space behind the hub to press out and press the longer stud in, no clearance issue when inserting the longer stud?
     
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  28. Dec 14, 2022 at 10:03 AM
    #28
    Mrf1987

    Mrf1987 [OP] New Member

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    Zero problems with mine, Ive changed wheel setups and have had the wheels off over 20 times with service and work to the truck. I had one spot i could remove and install the studs. Change one out rotate etc. Took me less than an hour to change the studs out.
     
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  29. Dec 14, 2022 at 10:19 AM
    #29
    Toe404

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    It’s been about a month and 600 miles, no issues so far. I watched the tech install them and he did have to bend the backing plate for the rotor on one of the studs, but otherwise painless install.
    Included some pics with the rotor on and off so you can see the length difference

    394278C2-0A38-4EE0-B441-995AB03C10E2.jpg
    04902936-9F2C-47B0-8AEF-AA962C744C4F.jpg

    1B89170B-E297-4170-A95D-0644B081948A.jpg
     
  30. Dec 14, 2022 at 12:29 PM
    #30
    jproy12

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    Thanks! And no quality issues from all the wheel changes? Assume you only changed the fronts, or also the rear studs?

    Thank you as well, keep me/us posted on how they play out! The ones you got from eBay do seem cheaper, so maybe the route to go vs. the more expensive ones from Japan. But again, I'm a firm believer in, you get what you pay for... and wheel studs is not something I'd like to cheap out on!
     
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