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Anyone have experience with wifi and cinderblock wall house?

Discussion in 'Home Improvement' started by Danimal86, Aug 10, 2021.

  1. Aug 10, 2021 at 10:05 AM
    #1
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 [OP] Looks clean even when its dirty!

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    Being "the tech person" in the family, i've got to figure out a wifi solution for a house my parents inherited.

    The house is on a huge lot (for the area) of about just shy of an acre, the house was built back in the 70's (guessing) and the exterior walls are cinderblock, interior walls are wood studs and drywall. I believe that the existing modem/router is one rented from comcast (probably a POS). Wifi within the house is good, but if you are outside close to a wall its not even weak, its just not there.

    We installed a bunch of ring cameras on the corners and they are having intermittent drops and i'm figuring its because of the wifi not being able to penetrate the cinderblock walls. The ring cameras came with Chimes that will create a network of its own for just the rings, but i believe they are low power (or high frequency?) and aren't doing much for connection (or maybe i have them setup incorrectly).

    With the future of the house unknows (move in/rent it out/sell it), i see 2 or 3 options:
    1a)Off the shelf Single Powerful Router:
    Remove POS xfinity router/modem combo and replace it with a docsis 3.0 or 3.1 modem (i believe the internet plan is 200mbps down or 400, cant remember but i always like to future proof) and add the strongest non-commercial router thats available. Looking at Asus/Netgear maybe Tplink or Linksys.
    $100-$150 for the modem and $300-$500 for the router. No idea if it will make a difference.
    1b)Off the shelf Mesh:
    I was severely under-impressed with Goggle Wifi mesh setup. Speeds droped SUBSTANTIALLY from the base puck to the next. If i went this route, i would have to have mesh nodes placed at points where the wifi could get out of the house (windows/doors). I have a feeling i would probably need 3-4 nodes. I'm not sure if newer mesh systems are better now at sustaining throughput, but i'd have to research this more.

    2)Getting Serious:
    Sill buy a modem and ditch the xfinity one. Buy A Ubiquity router/Poe+ switch and run an ethernet from the office through the attic to the front and rear of the house and install either Ubiquiti Access Point HD or Access Point FlexHD (both are the only outdoor rated APs) and also one in the interior of the house.
    2 HD's would be about $650 and would have to add an indoor one $175.
    UniFi Dream Machine Pro is $350, either have to get an poe switch or injectors.
    $1k+ This is the route i would go if it were me. There's a shop on the back side of the property (also cinderblock), i bet every inch of the property (who knows about inside the shop) would have perfect wifi.

    3)Quick/Easy/Cheap Duct Tape Solution:
    Keep the Xfinity POS router/modem combo and add a Netgear PLP2000 powerline adapter. There are plenty of exterior outlets throughout the perimeter of the house. Slap one on each side and connect some sort of an access point to each and and have a separate wifi network for the exterior of the house.
    $100 for the plp2000 and maybe another $100-$200 in access points.
    I really hate the idea of having multiple networks within a house, but its an option.

    What are your thoughts?
     
  2. Aug 10, 2021 at 10:15 AM
    #2
    mundra

    mundra New Member

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    I live in a state that most houses are cinder block built and filled with concrete. I use a nice wifi router and have no issues with my nest based items including the doorbell and wifi garage door.
     
  3. Aug 10, 2021 at 10:29 AM
    #3
    TxGnRnr

    TxGnRnr New Member

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    I've got the same role in my family as you do yours. I'm not a professional, just an enthusiast, so take my advice for what it's worth.

    I don't like Option 1a. You could spend a lot of money and not have any improvement, especially if you only replace a single Wi-Fi AP.

    For 1b, I've heard good reviews of the Eero mesh. An off-the-shelf mesh might work if you can position the "base" node centrally with each remote node near a camera/dead zone. That would limit the number of hops. Each hop in a traditional mesh reduces the theoretical max speed by half. However, with 802.11ac MIMO networks, some of these mesh networks use a separate radio & band for the back-haul so the speed reduction is mostly eliminated. Depending on the number of remote nodes that you need ($), this might be the best solution (especially if you have to provide tech support to your parents). Just buy it from a reputable store with a good return policy in case it doesn't work. This would be the lowest-effort option. (Plug it in: you either get Wi-Fi outside or you don't.)

    I think that you can do a variation on Option 2. Can you install a PoE-powered AP high in the attic? While the walls are cinderblock, what is the roof material? If it is plywood/OSB with shingles, the roof may allow a better Wi-Fi signal outdoors than going through the walls directly. Doesn't have to be Ubiquiti (although I run their stuff at home), but any high-powered AP should work. You could then turn off the Wi-Fi from the Xfinity router and just use the new AP's signal throughout the house, so only 1 Wi-Fi network.

    The Powerline adapters should work too, but you will probably need 2 remote units with outside-rated AP's. Each one would hopefully cover roughly 180* since the cinderblock would still block the signal from reaching the opposite exterior. Also, if the wiring hasn't been upgraded since the 70's, Powerline may have issues with connectivity and speed. I would be almost certain you won't get 200 mbps over 70's electrical wiring.

    Hope this helps.
     
  4. Aug 10, 2021 at 10:46 AM
    #4
    Tundra234

    Tundra234 New Member

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    Alot of them
    The Ring chime extenders are garbage. My house in cinderblock and I had weak signals to some of my Ring floodlight cameras. I bought the Orbi mesh system from Best Buy and it works really well. One of the nice things about the Orbi is you can balance out wireless devices by connecting some of them to the Orbi instead of the main router.
     
  5. Aug 10, 2021 at 11:09 AM
    #5
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 [OP] Looks clean even when its dirty!

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    What router are you using?
    Its a tough job, but someone's gotta do it!
    I'll look into the Eero, and not a bad idea to just try it out and can always return it.

    I didn't think about running AP's in the attic. That would cut down on the cost since i could eliminate the outdoor rated AP's and just get the regular ones. I also have nightmare's of thinking about what kind of hell is up in the attic waiting for me. 40 year old+ insulation and probably a plethora of rat shit.
    I'll have to search around for other non ubiquiti AP's. As long as i can get them to work together and not have a bunch of different APs that you have to manually connect to depending on where you are, i'm happy. I feel like ubiquity is the Buy Once Cry Once....but not worth spending the $ if its going to be empty for a while.

    Yeah, i have one of those chimes on the interior of the the cinderblock wall, and a camera on the other side about 5' up and it wouldn't even connect to the Chime Pro Network.
    They came with the Ring Floodlight cameras that i bought at costco, so no $ lost.
     
  6. Aug 10, 2021 at 11:16 AM
    #6
    eick

    eick New Member

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    To keep it 100, wire them up, don't know if existing cameras are POE or not.
     
  7. Aug 10, 2021 at 11:23 AM
    #7
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 [OP] Looks clean even when its dirty!

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    They are wired for power, but wifi for signal
     
  8. Aug 10, 2021 at 11:34 AM
    #8
    Kratos

    Kratos Woof

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    I'd go with a top of the line router and dump the combo Xfinity unit. I'm running a Netgear in the top floor of a tri-level and my Xbox in the basement downloads at 200 mbps.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2021
  9. Aug 10, 2021 at 11:51 AM
    #9
    eick

    eick New Member

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    Ah that sucks, so you've got to run power but they expect wifi for data anyway. The worst of both worlds

    Having done I don't even know how many heatmaps on wifi installs, you've got a few things working against you.

    I think the solution that combines possiblity of success for cost may be in order here -

    You don't have to use an outdoor AP, if it's reasonably protected from the elements it will last outside. I have an indoor rated ubiquity outside under my patio that is POE and it handles heat/cold fine, but is protected from rain/snow etc.

    You could get 2 cheap AF stand alone access points, and run them to two sides of the house. I would create a new network dedicated for the cameras just to be sure they don't accidentally associate with the internal one with weak signal and drop/reconnect constantly. Install them either in the attic over the eaves, or cut a hole and mount them under the eaves. If this is a one story house it's relatively easy to run cat 5 to the eaves and down one interior wall to where the router is.

    One spool of cat 5, and two AP's that you can get cheap af. YOu can get tp-link with passive POE for like $15 each so you don't have to run anything more than the cat 5 cable through the attic and poe is low voltage for code so you don't have to worry about electricians or any of that nonsense.
     
  10. Aug 10, 2021 at 1:10 PM
    #10
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 [OP] Looks clean even when its dirty!

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    This was my first idea, and probably the easiest.
    Good to know about using the non outdoor AP's outside. I figured they would be ok but thought it would be better to get the outdoor ones, but shit they are like an extra $200/ea. I was thinking about putting them under the eves outside, the worst thing that would get to them is the insects. We dont get much rain in NorCal, occasionally it'll dip below freezing, but only for a few hours.
    I figured if we go the AP route, i'm gonna have to run some ethernet. I figured shoving a long rigid fish tape through the vent under the eves and aim for the person in the attic entrance wouldn't be too bad.
     
  11. Aug 10, 2021 at 1:13 PM
    #11
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    So I install this stuff every day and work in places with Cinderblock and Metal Studs combined and the only real way to do it is to use an AP in each room in the interior there.
    So I have a few places with a dozen or more APs and really like the In Wall AP and you dont need to have them visible at all which the customer loves too.

    Outside and open areas are not a huge issue usually but there are also cheaper ways to get Ubiquity that I might offer especially of you are only looking at 200mps speed anyway.

    Ubiquiti makes the $100 AC Mesh Dual Band for outside and I use them all over the place,they will connect with wire or mesh automatically if not wired. The Specs might not look that good but this model has been great for me used with Ring Stuff,no real problems at all.

    I also use a lot of the In Wall AP from and they are $100 each,they are not waterproof but if installed in a standard plastic weatherproof switch cover for outside switches they seem to be fine and I do this in South Florida which gets pretty wet for sure!
    Any of the cheaper APs they sell are decent for home use really and a couple of the outdoor mesh and an indoor AP and I bet you will be fine.

    Add the $150 POE switch and wire them or let them be Mesh get a USG and call it a day.
    I always run a Cloud Key too so I can administer them remotely but they will do the same thing without one really too.

    Ubiquiti also makes the Amplifi System and the units are $100 each and can mesh both wired or wirelessly and the base unit already has a router in it and these are really great for the money too. Stick them in a waterproof can outside and away you go.

    You can also mix and match them if you need to.

    You can also buy it all on Amazon and send it back if it does not do the job.
     
    Gravy and Danimal86[OP] like this.
  12. Aug 10, 2021 at 1:34 PM
    #12
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 [OP] Looks clean even when its dirty!

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    the 100 mesh ap you are talking about these guys?
    https://store.ui.com/products/unifi-ac-mesh-ap

    I dont think that they will ever go above needing 200mbps download speed. Netflix is probably the most internet intensive thing they will do.

    How much are these systems "set it and forget it"? i dont want to have to be doing tweaks to this thing every week because something drops?
     
  13. Aug 10, 2021 at 1:41 PM
    #13
    eick

    eick New Member

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    Lol there’s no such thing as set it and forget it when old people are involved with technology.

    if you go the ubiquity route which is quite a bit of money over some el cheapo access points just set it so it doesn’t upgrade the firmware automatically.
     
  14. Aug 10, 2021 at 1:45 PM
    #14
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 [OP] Looks clean even when its dirty!

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    Thats a good idea on the firmware.
     
  15. Aug 10, 2021 at 1:48 PM
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    Gravy

    Gravy Cat herder, ASCM #π

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    You're over thinking the problem. Take it in steps. ISRs are garbage. Ditch the ISR, your ISP should provide you with an appropriate standalone modem, if not they are cheap enough. Get a nice wifi6 router (something with lots of external/removable antennas, and good ones can be had for 200ish. Get your network running again, see if that fixes the problem. If not, then look into more expensive options, although I'd personally get some wifi antenna extensions (reason for the external removable antennas) and stick 2 of the antennas in the attic at opposing corners, or run them out under the eaves. If that doesn't do it, then get serious with it. Either way, you get a wifi6 capable router out of the deal.
     
  16. Aug 10, 2021 at 1:49 PM
    #16
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    Yep,these were on of their first Mesh devices and they need to update the literature for them really as they are no slouch at all and are great outside and in.
    If you buy them singles they come with a POE injector too!
    They also now have a Flex Switch that is cheap but works well,like under $50 cheap I think.

    This is the In-Wall AP
    https://www.microcenter.com/product/618731/ubiquiti-networks-unifi-uap-ac-iw-in-wall-access-point

    They make a better one too but I use the hell out of these and they are great.also have switches in them to connect local devices if needed.

    Andyes once you get it setup and running how you want it they are very robust.
    I only lost my first component a few weeks ago when a house got hit by lightning and it only took out the USG Router but that was my first dead Ubiquiti piece ever I think?!
     
  17. Aug 10, 2021 at 1:49 PM
    #17
    eick

    eick New Member

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    The dual antennas on access points aren’t made for covering multiple access regions so getting directional antennas and pointing them different directions won’t work as well as anyone would hope
     
  18. Aug 10, 2021 at 1:53 PM
    #18
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    True but they seem to have better coverage than I thought they would anyway especially the higher up you can get them as always.
     
  19. Aug 10, 2021 at 1:56 PM
    #19
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 [OP] Looks clean even when its dirty!

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    This ubiquiti stuff is really cool! I'm kinda thinking of the idea of bringing my asus rt-ac5300 over to the new house and re-doing my house with a ubiquity setup. My house is all prewired for ethernet so i could put those in wall ones throughout the house and be good with it.
     
  20. Aug 10, 2021 at 1:58 PM
    #20
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    Now you are talking and your Parents will likely never know the difference!

    Did you go in and set the Ring Chimes to extend the camera network,I think you have to choose this or they dont do it at all.
     
  21. Aug 10, 2021 at 2:03 PM
    #21
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 [OP] Looks clean even when its dirty!

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    I'll have to make a shopping list and see what i would be getting myself into if i redo my house. I have a gigabit connection so i want it fast.

    Yeah i tried to get them to connect to the "chime pro network" (something like that), they didn't really want to connect to them, but they would connect to the weak wifi. Everything needs to update firmware and it seems like it takes a while. I'll try to re-connect them the next time to the chime network and see....maybe the chimes/cameras were still updating when i was trying to connect
     
  22. Aug 10, 2021 at 2:05 PM
    #22
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    I have also found that they sometimes need to move where you least expect them to get a decent signal so moving them around can often help for sure.
    Overall though Ring can be a real pain in the ass to get working sometimes.
     
  23. Aug 10, 2021 at 2:07 PM
    #23
    YardBird

    YardBird Native San Diegan

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    I live in a wood framed home and my separate weak router and modem units were on one end of the house (upstairs) and my TV is on the other end (downstairs). I had wireless issues throughout the house.
    I bought a new router/modem unit and installed a 'range extender' half way in between the two wireless devices ~ problem solved.
    My tablet, streaming TV service and our cell phones now work like a champ.
    Maybe I just got lucky . . .



    upload_2021-8-10_14-6-14.jpgimages_dd0af78a50c799ab7bc712f519a09280161e2d76.jpg
     
  24. Aug 10, 2021 at 2:09 PM
    #24
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 [OP] Looks clean even when its dirty!

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    Yeah, they wanted the floodlight ones, so those have to be hard wired. No such luck moving them around. We ran conduit everywhere to get them hardwired. The UI is perfect for the parents though, easy to use and understand.
     
  25. Aug 10, 2021 at 2:10 PM
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    eick

    eick New Member

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    I use the ubiquiti in wall aps in my house. If you feel like doing thag and gifting your old router then go for it. They work well
     
  26. Aug 10, 2021 at 2:13 PM
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    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    I meant moving the chimes around,they seem sensitive to placement.
     
  27. Aug 10, 2021 at 2:16 PM
    #27
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 [OP] Looks clean even when its dirty!

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    Ohhhhh....gotcha. I'll play around with them a little bit. If i can get them to connect to the cameras i may just get a replacement modem/router and call it a day, and save the ubiquiti stuff for me.
     
  28. Aug 10, 2021 at 2:16 PM
    #28
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    I have also been reading and hearing good things about this new startup called Vilo that has $20 Mesh APs and I just got a few to try out but have not had the chance to just yet.
    If they work as reviewed though they are at a crazy low price point for real mesh systems and they also offer switches for hardwiring in each unit too so they can be wired together of not or any combination.

    For the money I really hope they work!
     
  29. Aug 10, 2021 at 2:16 PM
    #29
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 [OP] Looks clean even when its dirty!

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    i didn't know they existed, but now that i do.....i need them!
     
  30. Aug 10, 2021 at 2:17 PM
    #30
    ezdog

    ezdog New Member

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    They are great and have very high W.A.F. too!
     

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