1. Welcome to Tundras.com!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tundra discussion topics
    • Transfer over your build thread from a different forum to this one
    • Communicate privately with other Tundra owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Need more: Bass Guitar

Discussion in 'Audio & Video' started by BrakeDust, Apr 21, 2021.

  1. Apr 21, 2021 at 7:32 AM
    #1
    BrakeDust

    BrakeDust [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2021
    Member:
    #58113
    Messages:
    718
    Gender:
    Male
    Hill Country, TX
    Vehicle:
    2021 CM SR5 4x4 Magnetic
    So I just completed a massive upgrade:
    https://www.tundras.com/threads/brakedusts-kenwood-dmx1057xr-tech12volts-audio-overhaul.87362/

    Door speakers = Hertz K 165 (turns out this is their entry level)
    Amp = Kenwood x802.5 (very good amp)
    Sub = Rockford Fosgate 12" R2SD4-12 4-ohm (wired as 2-ohm)

    However it seems like many bass guitar tracks are fairly muted, lost even. Can I compensate for this by tuning my system somehow? It seems that the bass guitar occupies a frequency range that just happens to straddle the typical Sub/Mid crossover point, 80Hz. It feels like I have a gap of sorts, not sure how to approach it.

    - Mid speakers need to be upgraded?
    - The 80Hz crossover point not correct?
    - Mids need more power? (They are 4ohm, amp supplies 50W RMS, speakers could handle 75W RMS)
    - Sub needs more gain? Yet - if I go there, then everything sounds 'boomy' and bass guitar still doesn't emerge

    Here's an example of someone playing a bass guitar through a car sub, this is the sound I'm searching for. It should be possible to get this.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viqR1zZ836w


    And in particular, if you play a song like 'Rio' through headphones the bass guitar is front & center. On my Tundra system one can barely hear it:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-qYYZrky1Y
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
  2. Apr 21, 2021 at 7:42 AM
    #2
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 Looks clean even when its dirty!

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2017
    Member:
    #9321
    Messages:
    4,721
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Daniel
    Sacramento, CA
    Vehicle:
    2017 White Tundra SR5
    Try setting your subs to 90hz and see how it sounds. Anything above 80hz you can start to get voices through your subs. I have mine set to 95hz to account for the dip at 80-100hz.
     
  3. Apr 21, 2021 at 8:09 AM
    #3
    BrakeDust

    BrakeDust [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2021
    Member:
    #58113
    Messages:
    718
    Gender:
    Male
    Hill Country, TX
    Vehicle:
    2021 CM SR5 4x4 Magnetic
    Ok will try the Sub at 90Hz!

    Also played with my door/mid gain. At the beginning of my install I had the gain set very low in order to eliminate the high frequency 'hiss' that arises from setting it at max.

    So before my tweak from today:
    [​IMG]

    And now: (Closer to Max, but not quite at max)
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Apr 21, 2021 at 8:18 AM
    #4
    mountainpete

    mountainpete Explore more

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2018
    Member:
    #20928
    Messages:
    2,406
    Alberta, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Cement Crewmax TRD
    Function before sparkle.
    Story time:

    This post reminded me of my first car - an 80's VW Jetta. Loved that thing and listening to U2 Actung Baby on cassette. I probably listened to that album a hundred times on the stock radio and eventually upgraded the "deck" and speakers. Got a slick Alpine with the removable face, 6x9's in the back and replaced the dash speakers. I was cool.

    I will never forget listening to that album for the first time with the new system. The songs were different! There were back beats and bass notes I never knew existed.

    Although I never became what many people consider an audiophile, I certainly can appreciate tuning like you are trying to do @BrakeDust :thumbsup:
     
    Terndrerrr, TRDFerguson and Darkness like this.
  5. Apr 21, 2021 at 8:29 AM
    #5
    Darkness

    Darkness Allergic to white

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2018
    Member:
    #17315
    Messages:
    9,976
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Luis
    All over SoCal
    Vehicle:
    The darkest
    It's really dark
    This is often my favorite part of getting any new stereo equipment. For my cars or my house, I get new enjoyment from hearing things I never heard in songs I've heard a thousand times. Glad I'm not the only one.

    One summer I drove a friend's Toyota pickup (he was "on vacation") and there was a Sublime 40oz of Freedom cd stuck in the head unit. It played all Summer, I didn't really like Sublime at the time. When Summer ended I installed a new stereo in my truck, complete with a sub, and the song Smoke 2 Joints came on the radio. Holy crap it sounded better, I bought the CD the next day.
     
  6. Apr 21, 2021 at 8:35 AM
    #6
    Rebel Tundra Man

    Rebel Tundra Man New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Member:
    #34657
    Messages:
    240
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tyler
    Western Kentucky
    Vehicle:
    2016 Black Limited CM
    4" RCX Lift, 20x10 Fuel Coupler's, 35x12.50x20 Nitto Ridge Grappler's, Color Match Front End, LED Bulbs, RCX Tube Steps, Green LED Underglow
  7. Apr 21, 2021 at 2:59 PM
    #7
    dkahs05

    dkahs05 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Member:
    #1045
    Messages:
    203
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2020 Tundra TRD PRO
    Do you have a way to set the punch level? On my Dsr1 with stock HU I can set the punch and it hits great. But I have 2 10 inch subs instead of one 12.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
  8. Apr 21, 2021 at 4:45 PM
    #8
    BrakeDust

    BrakeDust [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2021
    Member:
    #58113
    Messages:
    718
    Gender:
    Male
    Hill Country, TX
    Vehicle:
    2021 CM SR5 4x4 Magnetic
    I have a remote for the sub, seems like the same thing as "punch" control:
    (Example: Rockford)
    https://rockfordfosgate.com/products/details/plc2/


    But that doesn't make any difference since the bass quitar frequencies seem to be ignored by the sub - slightly too high? (ie. greater than ~80Hz)

    So by increasing the gain on my mid speakers I've indeed increased the 'bass' sound but unfortunately I've also increased the gain on my tweeters at the same time. Everything is just Louder across the board.

    I may play with the 'parametric equalizer' on my HU and see if I can simply attenuate some of the higher frequencies and thus quiet down my tweeters a bit. Just need to figure out what freq range to target, hoping to leave the mids alone.
     
    dkahs05[QUOTED] likes this.
  9. Apr 22, 2021 at 5:42 AM
    #9
    Jbehredt

    Jbehredt Burgeoning member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2019
    Member:
    #39342
    Messages:
    681
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jason
    Westminster, CO
    Vehicle:
    2020 TRD Pro DC White
    At a glance and not a professional but I’ll try....

    Bass guitars live mostly between 60 and 1000hz. The strings can slap, buzz and rattle above that of course.

    Input sensitivity isn’t gain. It should match the outputs on your HU. I think they’re 5V.

    Your HPFs on your amp are switched off. You’re playing full range through your door speakers. Might be muddying up the mid bass with the bass.

    You definitely have 75ish LPF to 100hz HPF rolled off with you current settings if they were turned on.

    Your HU has great eq and digital effects. Don’t even need the amp knobs if you dial in upstream. Some decent YouTube vids showing the basics of kenwood1057xr tuning should get you lined out.
     
    dkahs05 likes this.
  10. Apr 22, 2021 at 7:24 PM
    #10
    BrakeDust

    BrakeDust [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2021
    Member:
    #58113
    Messages:
    718
    Gender:
    Male
    Hill Country, TX
    Vehicle:
    2021 CM SR5 4x4 Magnetic
    I'll look, thanks!

    The Amp filters are turned off because I intend to control everything from the HU. There are separate crossover settings for the front, back and sub.
     
    Jbehredt[QUOTED] likes this.
  11. Apr 26, 2021 at 5:40 AM
    #11
    BrakeDust

    BrakeDust [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2021
    Member:
    #58113
    Messages:
    718
    Gender:
    Male
    Hill Country, TX
    Vehicle:
    2021 CM SR5 4x4 Magnetic
    I think I got it sorted out, at least it's the best it can be with my current equipment. I ended up reverting back to my original Amp settings and relied upon my HU for all adjustments.

    For those who haven't yet done anything:
    - Spend more on your mid speakers, especially those on the front door. They carry the heaviest burden when it comes to mid bass. I would even consider a 6x9 since there is space, just buy a good brand. Do not skimp out on your mids!
    - Tweeters don't really seem to matter that much. In fact I attenuated mine by 3dB to get them to calm down a little and not sound too brash.
    - Your sub matters, but size doesn't make it "better." I have a 12" and it doesn't really play a part in mid bass. I think a single 10" would be better, and I know a 2x 10" is popular if you don't mind using up all the space in your truck.
    - The crossover settings matter. You don't get anything for free by overlapping the speaker ranges or by making the ramps shallow - everything just starts to sound muddy. Pick a point like 80Hz and make the ramps steep on both sides.

    Kenwood certainly allows for extensive tweaking, here are my settings.
    - Did not rely upon most of the presets. Especially the "bass boost" and "Loud" settings did nothing except make things sound worse.
    - Liked the option to raise the sound stage, used 'Supreme' since it's recommended but I couldn't hear a difference
    - As mentioned, attenuated the tweeters, the setting is hard to find but keep digging! (It's under "Level" in the DTA settings, sorry no pic)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    BrandonL812 likes this.
  12. Apr 26, 2021 at 8:13 PM
    #12
    jwatt

    jwatt I heart men

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2020
    Member:
    #40985
    Messages:
    1,301
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jack
    Oregon
    Vehicle:
    Salsa Red 2007 Tundra DC @91k.
    7" BDS Coilover Suspension Lift/BDS UCAs/XB LED Headlights/Nitto trail Grappler tires on Black Rhyno Armory wheels
    When I was young and a pot head music always sounded better when I was stoned:rasta:I think pot has it s own way of adjusting time alignment.
     
  13. Apr 28, 2021 at 5:11 PM
    #13
    BrakeDust

    BrakeDust [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2021
    Member:
    #58113
    Messages:
    718
    Gender:
    Male
    Hill Country, TX
    Vehicle:
    2021 CM SR5 4x4 Magnetic
    Discovered that the "time alignment" actually plays a big part. Decided to set it to "front all" then added some delay to my side. I'm pretty sure I was getting some destructive interference before... now the mid bass is much better. Not planning on getting a different set of speakers.

    Another massive difference is setting your Spotify "Streaming quality" to "very high." Previously it was Auto... which was likely "crappy." I noticed that my USB sounded much better and decide to check the setting :rolleyes:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Test track
    [​IMG]
     
    dkahs05 likes this.
  14. Apr 28, 2021 at 5:39 PM
    #14
    fisherman951

    fisherman951 MT dreams

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2017
    Member:
    #9616
    Messages:
    5,345
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tony
    SoCal
    Vehicle:
    2017 crewmax 4x4
    Consider and epicenter? I listen to a lot of Spanish music and that brings the bass to life.
     
  15. Apr 28, 2021 at 11:13 PM
    #15
    panicman

    panicman Everyone remain calm.

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Member:
    #13960
    Messages:
    1,717
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Eric
    PNW
    Vehicle:
    2018 SR5 CM TRDoffroad MGM
    What HU are you running, and do you recommend it to us?
     
  16. Apr 29, 2021 at 3:58 AM
    #16
    BrakeDust

    BrakeDust [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2021
    Member:
    #58113
    Messages:
    718
    Gender:
    Male
    Hill Country, TX
    Vehicle:
    2021 CM SR5 4x4 Magnetic
    Kenwood DMX1057XR. It's very full-featured and one of the highlights is wireless android auto. However.... AA shuts down when you power cycle the vehicle and must be manually restarted. It seems with Pioneer that's not an issue. Decide how much that would bug you given that you've dropped $1250 on the HU.

    I've come to accept that the Samsung/Apple/Google companies of the world DGAS about features that consumers find useful, they'll do as they wish. AA used to auto-restart about a year ago until Google disabled it. Similarly my Note10 used to have an option to hide the camera hole, then Samsung removed the feature in the latest software 'upgrade.' There are no technical reasons for any of these limitations and it's what drives people to Android Head Units. However, those come with their own integration headaches. At least with my DMX _everything_ works, and works very well. In particular Google Maps integration is better than any 'navigation' unit I've ever used. IMO navi head units will be a relic of the past once Google convinces auto and HU companies to just run AA all the times. I'm optimistic the auto-restart will eventually be given back, seems moronic not to have it.
     
    panicman[QUOTED] likes this.
  17. Apr 29, 2021 at 8:39 AM
    #17
    panicman

    panicman Everyone remain calm.

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Member:
    #13960
    Messages:
    1,717
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Eric
    PNW
    Vehicle:
    2018 SR5 CM TRDoffroad MGM
    Would that be an issue for me? I am not an android user.

    I have Apple products, and I typically plug the device in, both for improved sound, and to keep it charged.

    I have decided my next upgrade is going to be the HU, but after reading through forums, online reviews, and installation threads, it is even less clear which unit has superior sound, a good array of controls, user-friendliness, and most seamless integration.

    I have seen options that range from about $500 to around $1200 that seem to boast a quality name brand, attractive design, and good integration into the Tundra with Apple Car Play.

    So- which one is BEST on all counts? I’ve compared Alpine, Kenwood, and Pioneer and they seem to boast both similar performance and similar minor annoyances.

    I have installed a 5ch amp, 12” sub, and upgraded all door speakers. They are being driven by the weenie factory hissbox. Time for a change!
     
  18. Apr 29, 2021 at 8:43 AM
    #18
    dknapp

    dknapp New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2021
    Member:
    #59823
    Messages:
    56
    Gender:
    Male
    Needs more SLAP
     
  19. Apr 29, 2021 at 9:02 AM
    #19
    BrakeDust

    BrakeDust [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2021
    Member:
    #58113
    Messages:
    718
    Gender:
    Male
    Hill Country, TX
    Vehicle:
    2021 CM SR5 4x4 Magnetic
    I think plugging in is a workaround for the auto-restart issues. But the whole point of being Wireless is to avoid plugging in! :rolleyes:
     
    panicman[QUOTED] likes this.
  20. May 7, 2021 at 11:52 AM
    #20
    BrakeDust

    BrakeDust [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2021
    Member:
    #58113
    Messages:
    718
    Gender:
    Male
    Hill Country, TX
    Vehicle:
    2021 CM SR5 4x4 Magnetic
    Found a new test song, Iron Maiden Phantom of the Opera
    There is still a huge 'hole' in this piece when it comes to bass. When heard with headphones there is deep, guttural, meaty bass throughout the song, especially during the middle 50% of it. On my Tundra system it's pretty much missing. I fear that the bass is not being properly divided between my mid drivers and the sub. And whatever is left up to the mids cannot actually be represented! My mids do supposedly go down to 55Hz but they are still just 6.5" speakers and thus will never put out much volume.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8IuFl3sMhk

    I tried playing with my EQ and crossover settings but nothing made a huge difference (haven't given up yet.) Frustrated by my lack of progress I decided to run an FFT on the song using Matlab. And guess what I found!

    [​IMG]

    'Phantom' has a large peak right at the traditional 80Hz crossover point! Indeed by setting an 80Hz crossover we'll actually see a 'dip' in the frequency response right there. My EQ settings do not even go low enough to allow a boost for 80Hz. My High/Low crossovers do however so I could move that point around. If I pick 120Hz then perhaps that big bass would be allowed into the Sub.
     
  21. May 7, 2021 at 12:34 PM
    #21
    BrakeDust

    BrakeDust [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2021
    Member:
    #58113
    Messages:
    718
    Gender:
    Male
    Hill Country, TX
    Vehicle:
    2021 CM SR5 4x4 Magnetic
    Changed my Sub crossover to 150Hz, seemed to help

    [​IMG]
     
  22. May 10, 2021 at 7:01 PM
    #22
    dkahs05

    dkahs05 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Member:
    #1045
    Messages:
    203
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2020 Tundra TRD PRO
    So did you get this resolved?
     
  23. May 11, 2021 at 5:31 AM
    #23
    BrakeDust

    BrakeDust [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2021
    Member:
    #58113
    Messages:
    718
    Gender:
    Male
    Hill Country, TX
    Vehicle:
    2021 CM SR5 4x4 Magnetic
    Absolutely yes! The system sounds incredible now. The golden oldies sound amazing (eg. Iron Maiden), 80's is sublime (Pet Shop Boys, Bananarama), modern rap & crap is downright overwhelming! (My wife & kids for the latter :rolleyes:)

    It was a combination:
    - Setting some of the lower EQ bands somewhat higher (but not max), suppressing the very highest bands just a little
    - Attenuating the tweeters a few dB
    - Apply some time delay on the driver's side speakers (~ 0.5 - 0.75ms)
    - Keep the mid driver crossover at 80Hz
    - Push the Sub crossover to 150Hz. This made the biggest difference by far!

    Now I truly can't tell that the sub is even there, yet all that amazing bass guitar and other low rumbles are fully there.

    For example there are some great low vocals here that would never appear before:
    (Anything by Yes in particular sounds awesome)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-hJFoSgXfM
     
    Retired Blue likes this.
  24. Oct 31, 2023 at 4:52 PM
    #24
    Sully6

    Sully6 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2020
    Member:
    #54289
    Messages:
    44
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ken
    Vehicle:
    2020 cement trd off ry
    Old thread here but thanks for this I just installed James JL audio system with 2 10inch shallow infinity subs(double cab space issues) I am going to start playing around with settings with Kenwood dmx1037 and jl 900.5 amp and my sunglass holder thing in the headliner is the one rattle I can't stand I need to find a fix maybe sound deadening will help
     

Products Discussed in

To Top