Petroleum engineers

My concern was not octane. But is the detergent level in regular gasoline the same as Premium gas?

 

That would vary by station.

 

Additive rate is the same. Octane is the only difference from reg to prem.

 

Interesting. May I ask for a reference to the statement? Just curious.

 

Will see what what I can dig up tommorow.... I'm just an old gas hauler...I see the meters spin, see the paperwork, see the blends... honestly, look back in time, look at taking care of a car from the 70s till now...got rid of leaded gas...everyone hated that, we still hate ethanol blends.....but technology let's us have spark plugs that last 100000 miles, fuel filters...yeah they are in tank now...but I used to have to change them every 30000...cars last way over 100000 miles now. Oil stays light colored with 10000 mile oil changes, not black and thick after 3000. Gas is least of worries. Buy from name brand station and hope a 16 year old taking a selfie does not drive into your tail gate while sitting at a light.

 

toptiergas.com
Under the FAQs, it states that "TOP TIER™ fuel marketers are required to use TOP TIER™ for all for all octane grades of gasoline and diesel sold at their stations".

 

For some reason I feel like I’ve seen that on some gas pumps before.

 

As I understand it the additives are not added by the delivery tankers. Its added on site to the storage tanks by the station.

 

I used to work at an Exxon station. We never added anything to the gas. The trucks came with guys like Bat driving and the gas that went in to the tanks and was sold as is.

From what I understand, basic gas is received and additives are added by the the company (Mobil, Shell, etc.). That gas, with the proprietary additives, is loaded in the truck and delivered.

 

Yes, additive packages are added at storage facilities either in large vessels with agitators for proper blending or directly into tank trucks as they’re being filled with gasoline prior to going to filling stations.

 

I see. Good info!

 

Not entirely true. As you can see, Sinclair corn free gas is Top Tier.

 

Not sure about the U.S. but here all premium is ethanol free except for the stuff from Petro-Canada (Suncor).

 

In the U.S. it seems to be somewhat demand driven. If there's a lot of recreational motorsports (think boats, motorcycle dealerships, etc.) the likelihood of there being a local Top-Tier E0 premium station or two seems to increase.

 

My dad's wishing for E0 87 so he doesn't have to put premium in his old boat but I guess these new giant wakeboard boats everyone seems to have don't mind E10. Or maybe their 6.2L LS engines all need 91 anyway.

 

I'm not a watersports person myself, but any fueling docks that I've been to all had E0 premium. It could be related to sit time too. I don't know.

 

So I finally took a look at our fuel specs. We have a single spec for both regular and premium gasoline. No difference in additive concentrations between the two grades, though it doesn't specifically call out detergents other than to note that they're added at the terminal (rather than in the refinery).

 

Thanks! So while the possibility that detergent could be less in regular, the additive concentrations are the same.

note that they're added at the terminal (rather than in the refinery) So I want to make sure I understand. Gas is made and shipped to the the refinery (be it Shell, Mobil, etc). Then they add their proprietary additives?

 

A terminal may be at a refinery (for regional truck deliveries), or the terminal may be at the other end of a pipeline from the refinery. It consists of an overhead rack with several hanging extendable fill pipes for filling tanker trucks. A terminal will have a small tank farm for gasoline grades and additives.

@Cpl_Punishment description coincides with what I observed at an old Texaco refinery in El Paso, TX. There was a terminal for loading trucks for regional delivery. Ironically, there was abandoned equipment formerly used for blending tetra-ethyl lead into the gasoline grades as it was being loaded. Additive blending, if any, happened the same way. As someone said, gasoline grades transported in pipelines are to universal industry standards, and can be marketed to any distributor on the other end.

 

As John said, gasoline is manufactured in each refinery (by Shell, ExxonMobil, etc.) then shipped out. We have truck terminals at our refinery but we only use them for aviation gasoline and asphalt. Motor gasoline goes out by pipeline or by railcar to terminals where it's loaded into trucks and the additives are put in. The gasoline from different manufacturers tends to be commingled in the tanks at the terminals so, for all practical purposes, the only difference between the gasoline at different stations is the additive packages each company uses and how much turnover the station has (which I believe was mentioned previously in this thread).

Edit: realised after I typed all this that it's exactly what @JohnLakeman wrote above.

 

I read somewhere, maybe here or another auto related forum, that Sunoco didn't bother to recertify their top tier license as a cost saving measure during the COVID pandemic. I suppose if less people were driving this makes some amount of sense.

For what it's worth, a friend of a friend who works for a trucking company that hauls gasoline claims that all gas is the same, with the exception of Sunoco, which he claims is a cut above. Of course I didn't hear it directly from him, for all I know he works for Sunoco.

 

Yeah, sounds like advertising to me. Everyone is going to manufacture their gasoline to minimum specs. Anything more is just sending money down the pipeline. Additives are the only thing that differentiates the brands.

 

The Mobil station near me has signs up everywhere, advertising "Synergy" fuel that they sell, talking about how you can drive your engine clean, etc. This past week, the fuel truck that arrived to fill up the tanks was a Sunoco truck, and Sunoco apparently uses "Ultratech". I was already beginning to get skeptical about top tier fuel, and this has done nothing to ease that skepticism. Especially considering the mom and pop station around the corner has the exact same pricing as the Mobil station. I have a hard time believing I'm getting a superior product for the same price.

 

No dog in this fight, really, but I see a small flaw in your logic.

Purely from a bulk buying perspective, Mom and Pop don't buy the same quantities of fuel that a big chain like Mobil will. They are going to pay more per gallon than Mobil as a result. That would give Mobil enough room in the budget to put in additives and sell at the same price that Mom and Pop would sell the straight gasoline at. I think you have to look at more than just the price at the pump to determine what you are getting, because a large buyer can have a lower cost per gallon. Then they can offer a superior product (even if it is a minimal difference) at the same price. Same concept applies to things like Wal-Mart vs a Mom and Pop grocery store. I am not saying this is what is happening, and I've got no data to back this up. It is just the way my brain saw it.

 

That's a good point, and one I hadn't considered. That Sunoco truck filling up the Mobil tanks sort of drove home the "this is all the same stuff" logic in my head. I wish there would be another study conducted on this, maybe by someone other than AAA.

 

Lots of the trucks you see on the road are leased/rented, so they are basically a billboard. They get sent to do whatever job they have for whoever is paying them. Less common on a major fuel station truck, but still possible.

Also, companies merge and buy each other out all the time. Sunoco and Mobil might be in this type of arrangement, and to maintain the illusion of competition they haven't eliminated either brand. Prime example, Travel Centers of America trucks stops and Petro truck stops used to be two different companies, but one acquired the other. They didn't change the names of the stations that were bought out, because it lets you play your customer. If a customer has a terrible experience at their local TA they might swear off that station, and vow to only use the Petro on the other side of town. If you can give the illusion of competition and variety you can sell more. Same way that auto companies will have different makes all under one big company. They even offer the same products with mildly different packaging and people will shop the two against each other.

 

exact same product, exact same additive (different brand). The fuel comes from the same pipeline. Gasoline “qualities” are all about marketing. That’s it. Buy your fuel at whatever c-store you like...it is literally the same product. Engine oil is basically the same thing (if it meets a certain spec, it performs the exact, same way). In reality, many engine oils will perform to the same “spec” even though it may not carry that spec...that oil company may not chose to pay for the licensing fees. I know of no other product that invests more in marketing than gasoline/engine oil.

 

pharmaceuticals

But yes, there is a lot more marketed differentiation in motor oil/gasoline than actual product differentiation in the end

 

At least oil commercials are a lot less obnoxious than drug commercials...