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Truck does not roll smoothly

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by bryand, Jan 15, 2020.

  1. Jan 15, 2020 at 2:44 PM
    #1
    bryand

    bryand [OP] New Member

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    I've noticed for a while now that my truck isn't rolling smoothly, for lack of a better description. It's most apparent at low speed, but feels like it increases with speed until it's fast enough to sort of smooth out, but still be there, if that make sense. The best way I can describe it is like one tire is too small, or has a big flat spot, and at very low speed I can see the front end rock a bit, though I can't tell if the "bump" is front or rear. I see it in every parking lot, every road, so I don't feel it's a surface issue. It's a bit more noticeable going uphill at one part of my commute. I put it in neutral and rolled downhill (forward) and found it happened then too.

    Over the last year:
    Bilstein 5100's front and rear, kept original springs
    New front rotors and pads
    New sway bar links
    New upper control arms and outer tie rod ends - this was around the time I was becoming aware of the issue, around a month ago
    Balanced and rotated old tires
    Installed brand new tires two weeks ago
    Replaced front wheel bearing and hub assembly last weekend. One did seem to turn less smoothly than the other, but not terrible, and didn't change the issue.

    It's a 2wd 2010, so that eliminates some front end possibilities (maybe). The wheels are stock steel from a 2017, Discount Tires didn't say anything about them when the tires were installed. It's at 200k miles, but otherwise running well.
     
  2. Jan 15, 2020 at 2:54 PM
    #2
    15whtrd

    15whtrd Mr. Blonde

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    Maybe see if you bent an axle. It’s possible you have a bent rear axle. I know you say you feel it in the front but you’re unsure. Since I don’t have any special tools to check for run out. I would probably take the rear wheels off and set up something high enough to meet the axle flange, then probably barely touch it with a pencil and secure that on whatever I propped up next to the axle. Then see if the axle flange is true or not. This would be my caveman way LOL
     
  3. Jan 15, 2020 at 5:30 PM
    #3
    bryand

    bryand [OP] New Member

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    It should take a lot to bend the rear axle, right? I can't think of anything that would have caused that. As the 2wd implies it's a road machine. I have been considering the rear end, though I was thinking the bearings (though I did lift the rear and grab the tires and didn't feel anything).
     
  4. Jan 16, 2020 at 5:34 AM
    #4
    JohnLakeman

    JohnLakeman Burning Internet Daylight

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    Inspect your new tires closely. You may have a faulty tire with a tread separation that has created a "bubble" in one tire tread. Every time the "bubble" hits the paving, i.e. every wheel revolution, you'll get a "bump". Start with the fronts...if it's rocking the front end, then probably one of the front tires is bad.
     
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  5. Jan 16, 2020 at 5:59 AM
    #5
    JohnLakeman

    JohnLakeman Burning Internet Daylight

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    I see now that you replaced the tires to eliminate the problem. With that information, I would say the problem is brake related, as in one brake assembly dragging severely with each wheel revolution. Double check your brake installation for corrosion behind the rotors, or warped rotors. Any cyclical force that is sufficient to move your truck on it's suspension almost has to be wheel related.

    Unlikely that it's any bearings or the differential. Noise would be your first clue in those cases, and such problems would be "self-diagnosing" long before you began to experience any movement. :D
     
    bryand[OP] likes this.
  6. Jan 16, 2020 at 9:15 AM
    #6
    bryand

    bryand [OP] New Member

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    I realize now I forgot one piece of information. When I was doing the front bearings over the weekend, I did find that one of the clips had split in half due to rust (I think, it was in the summer I did the rotors, I don't remember now if the clips were new - guess not). In step 6: https://www.tundras.com/threads/diy-replacing-front-brake-pads-and-rotors.17394/ it's what I think he's saying is the anti-rattle spring, the one that goes across both sides. I've ordered new ones. That said, from looking around it doesn't sound like those would cause this, but I'll check everything out when I put those on.

    I keep coming up with possibilities in my head, but it's so consistent I agree, I don't see how it's something like a ball joint. I need to draw a mark on a tire and try to gauge if it's every revolution or more or less. Certainly feels like once per turn.

    I would think a bent wheel would be obvious to a tire installer, but maybe not.

    Yeah, seemed like a long shot, but it was a reason to get outside and do some truck work at least :) Since the one seemed a bit different than the other I don't feel bad about it....just wish it'd helped!
     
  7. Jan 18, 2020 at 8:46 AM
    #7
    bryand

    bryand [OP] New Member

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    I think I'll start by replacing the rear rotors and pads. The front ones were done last summer and looked good last weekend apart from the missing clips, which I should get soon. I don't know how old the rears are.

    Sounds like it shouldn't be a suspension issue? Maybe I need to do the rotors then re-evaluate in a different area of the forum.
     
  8. Jan 18, 2020 at 9:07 AM
    #8
    JohnLakeman

    JohnLakeman Burning Internet Daylight

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    In my experience, you would be smart to inspect the pads for wear before you spend a lot of money on rear brake parts. The front brakes do considerably more work than the rears. I have found that rear brake shoes/pads will last much longer than the fronts. I once had to store some rear brake shoes 15 years waiting for the rears to wear out. They outlasted the left rear wheel bearing, and still had acceptable lining on them. In replacing the wheel bearing, I had one side completely stripped down with the axle out...I decided WTH, lets change these brake shoes while I'm in here.

    As I said before, I believe it has to be wheel related to put enough cyclical force into the suspension to move it, but I could be wrong. A very large part of diagnosing chassis/suspension issues is to simply get under and see what doesn't look right...new rubs, scrapes, marks, deteriorated bushings, excessive clearances, components touching that shouldn't be, etc. Jack it up, and move/rotate stuff around...maybe something abnormal will be obvious. Maybe nothing will be obvious, but it's a place to start. Nobody can do that for you over the internet.
     
  9. Feb 3, 2020 at 3:48 AM
    #9
    bryand

    bryand [OP] New Member

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    Had some nice weather lately. Last weekend I replaced the broken anti-vibration clips on the front rotors. Yesterday I changed the fluid in the rear differential. The old stuff was really dark, but apart from sludge on the magnet there wasn't anything that screamed an issue to me.

    Since I didn't know the age of the rear rotors, and a basic set is cheap, I went ahead and replaced those and the pads. I didn't notice anything spinning the wheels while the rear was on jackstands. I didn't do anything with the parking brake, but while the rotors were off I thoroughly cleaned everything with brake parts cleaner. Lots of dust, but nothing stood out. No obvious signs of rubbing on the dust shield, calipers appear fine. The old rotors looked okay apart from age, no significant corrosion. I didn't think to take a picture of both sides, but they looked the same to me:


    However, I did notice that the pads on the passenger side were not evenly worn. The driver side were the same thickness on both pads, end to end, but on the passenger, both were uneven. One had a difference of 1/8 - 3/16" end to end. Put it back together and drove, and still feeling it. Maybe a bit better, I'm not sure - mind games always get me with something like that. The two on the left were the drivers side, the right are from the passenger:


    I'm wondering if the uneven passenger side pads are a clue. Could one side not be letting go, causing the brakes to pulse on that side, grabbing and releasing? I could see how something like that on one tire could cause what I'm feeling.
     
  10. Feb 3, 2020 at 4:03 AM
    #10
    zombie

    zombie Master at Something

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    How were the calipers when you pushed in the pistons? Was it easy, or took some force retracting them? If it took some force, it just might be your problem, first signs of caliper failure.
     
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  11. Feb 3, 2020 at 5:52 AM
    #11
    glowblue

    glowblue From time to time

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  12. Feb 3, 2020 at 6:21 AM
    #12
    JohnLakeman

    JohnLakeman Burning Internet Daylight

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    Rust is not soluble in any of the usual cleaning solvents, so mere wiping with brake cleaner is not going to remove corrosion on the face of the hub (picture). Vigorous wire brushing will remove corrosion, dirt, or any other debris that may prevent the rotor from fitting perfectly square to the hub. Having said that, there doesn't appear to be enough rust there to make a difference, but wire-brushing is always good practice. Dial indication of all wheels to determine rotor run-out may be necessary.

    Not sure what you're describing with the pad wear. The pics show an end view of the pads, and there appears to be a slight taper from outside edge to the inside edge of the pads. Not significant IMO. I would expect slight taper on worn pads, but typically from trailing end to leading end. (More wear at the bottom end or leading edge of the pad.) Anytime there is a difference in wear patterns from one side of the vehicle to the other, that's a clue...I just have no idea if it's relevant to your original concern.

    Brake maintenance is pretty simple and the systems are highly reliable...virtually fool-proof. Almost anyone can do it at the curb in front of their house. If obvious things are grossly overlooked, like not inspecting and cleaning the hub and rotor contact surfaces, the result can eat the novice's lunch.
     
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  13. Feb 4, 2020 at 7:28 AM
    #13
    bryand

    bryand [OP] New Member

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    Getting the old pads out of the clips took a bit of force but nothing bad. I had to use a C-clamp to get the new ones in, but that's usually been the case for me, I didn't think that was unusual. The calipers seemed to slide back and forth okay. I did not take the two bolts out of them and replace the gaskets.

    I've considered going back and having Discount Tire double check the balance just to be sure, and rotate them while they're at it. I wasn't watching when the tires were being installed, don't know if they took one off at a time and put it back where it was or not.

    Yeah, I was only spraying it to get rid of the grime and dust that had built up. I didn't think to brush it, but since the issue is fairly recent, I really don't see how a bit of surface rust caused it, I would think that'd be a slow progression.

    The pads that came off the driver's side (left two in the picture) appear completely level to me, evenly worn end to end, which is what I recall seeing on the front ones last year. The two on the right of the picture aren't as even, especially the far right - that one was very obvious on first sight. Unfortunately I didn't inspect them until they were both out so I don't know if the leading or trailing edge is the worn one. There's a definite difference between the sides though, but I agree it may or may not be what I'm chasing. I haven't dealt with a caliper issue in the past so I'm not sure if this is all a symptom or not.
     
  14. Jul 1, 2020 at 5:18 PM
    #14
    triharder

    triharder Sorry, Not Sorry

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    You used c-clamps to get the new brake pads in the calipers? Did I read that correctly? And that's normal lately (I agree but shouldn't be installed that way IMO).

    In my opinion that would mean the powder coat/paint on the pads is too thick, that area should slide with the calipers (One major issue i had with my 90k mile brakes when i bought the truck). Might consider taking the pads out again and removing that extra paint on the pad. Ensure it slides easily(you can grease/anti-sieze this surface but don't over-grease as it will attract dirt). (honestly you should consider this normal maintenance at tire rotations to ensure everything slides well)

    In my experience that gave me feedback at the pedal. (you could feel the pedal actually contacting the pads and then releasing). A buddy drove my truck and reported the brakes scared him, so i did the pads, rotors and lines and it helped).

    Also, check that parking brake. If you don't use it it could be dragging, the linkage under the rail at the cable only pivots on a shaft with no bearing or grease fitting. Up here in Maine that thing will freeze solid without usage.

    Hopefully this helps. (my aftermarket rotor and the flange in the inner part of the axle) is also in contact. I ground off tons in this area off the rotor which sounds scary (its basically a dust seal not a pressure boundary part). but still makes contact on turns when haven't driven the truck in a bit.

    (Also consider stainless steel replacements for the rubber lines. if the lines start to internally collapse this will also cause brake drag. for the money i'd recommend it)

    Again, just the things i've seen and done, Mine's still not perfect and I wish i had just gone OEM instead of the Napa parts I used for calipers.

    Good luck keep us posted.

    Last question? Is your tire pressure numbers from the numbers listed on the truck or from the manufacture of the tire or trial and error. Might be worth a call to tire manufacture to find out their recommended tire pressures?
     
    bryand[OP] likes this.
  15. Jul 1, 2020 at 5:19 PM
    #15
    triharder

    triharder Sorry, Not Sorry

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    Geez i'm an idiot, this post i from February.
     
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  16. Jul 2, 2020 at 5:25 AM
    #16
    bryand

    bryand [OP] New Member

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    I've been planning to get to this. The truck is at 205k miles, I'm assuming the fluid's never been changed and the lines are original. I've also got hardware for the rear calipers, but no jack stands at the moment (Harbor Freight recall).

    LOL, appreciated all the same. I barely touched the truck during the COVID madness, I filled up the gas at the start and it lasted me two months. Never got back to this.

    I did find a few things. One, I went back to Discount Tire twice. First time was after starting this thread, and they found the tires were horribly out of balance, which was weird. It improved a little but not great. I went back to them two months later, explained everything, they rode with me and did a road force, they were rolling perfectly before and after. Said pressure is where it should be.

    I also got another alignment. Wasn't happy having to take it to NTB after changing the tie rod ends back in January, but it was the only option. I trust the shop I went to this time a lot more. They said it was "technically" in spec, but poorly done; I think he said they were pulling to the left and something else. That also helped some, but still not great. While it was there they checked the front end and said everything appeared good.
     

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