Towing advice. Salesman said sure you're fine

Good evening all. After couple days of camping with my wife. We stopped by the local camper place near my house on the way in to get some supplies. My wife found a camper she liked. I was here we go again. The camper weights 5683 Hitch weight is 755 and the ccc is 1917. My payload is 1100. I have 38 gallon gas tank on my truck so my what I research is 8900 what I can tow. The salesman man told me my truck can pull it. That WDH will take the hitch weight away! Never heard that guys. He also said since the axles was farther apart it would be fine. Is that true guys?? My wife is wanting to go back tomorrow and really look at it. Also do they add the dry weight and ccc number to get to the hitch weight? Please any help on this. Below is the specs on the camper and hitch he said I need. Thanks again

 

Also E-2 round bar hitch he said I needed.

 

I am towing a trailer that is about 1,000 lbs heavier but the "stated" hitch weight is about 25 lbs lighter (726 lbs). By the way, the literature said the hitch weight on my model was 640 lbs but when I got the build sheet for my unit, it said 726 lbs. My actual hitch weight with trailer loaded and tanks empty is 900 lbs. I have a DC with a payload of 1300 lbs. My Tundra GVWR is 7100 lbs and I am currently running at 7340 lbs with only my wife and I and the two dogs in the truck. Still working on cargo weight distribution in the TT.

The unit you are considering is at the very top of the range of what you could possible tow and you will likely be over on payload and Tundra GVWR- you will not be able to load much if anything in the truck and will have to carefully load the trailer to manage the hitch weight. Your total tow weight is not the issue - it is the payload. Looks like you have a lift - don't know what that does. I have the 1,000/10,000 Equalizer E4 and strongly recommend that you go with that vs the E2- you will need all the weight distribution and sway control you can get. It weighs 100 lbs and that counts toward your payload. I am level with no rear end sag when hitched.

That said, I am happy with how my trailer tows - I have towed it about 3,000 miles so far. I installed the Roadmaster Active Suspension to tighten up the rear end and run my Michelin LTX A/T 2's at 42psi when towing. Intend to upgrade to Load Range E tires when I replace them and increase air pressure further. I watch sway and run 60-65mph.

There are people out there towing more with Tundra's but I would not do it.

 

Don't go over your payload and GVWR numbers. A salesman's job isn't to keep you safe, it's to sell you the most expensive thing he can. Don't rush into anything. Take you time and educate yourself. I would suggest this thread https://www.tundras.com/threads/tow-ratings-guide-how-to-be-safe.39211/ as a solid foundation. Keep in mind that the factory payload is almost never what you actually have. That number doesn't take into account any of your add ons. Does your truck have running boards, a bed liner, floor mats, larger wheels, heavier tires? All of those eat payload and/or GVWR. If the truck in your avatar is yours, then the lift and tires you have will have decreased your GVWR, so these are things you need to consider.

Also, you will hear from tons of people "I do this, I do that with my tundra" and what these people don't consider is that by exceeding the manufacturer's load limits they are eating into the engineered safety buffers that account for all kinds of shit show variables. It's just like a lifting strap used for cranes. The strap has a Working Load Limit that you don't go over, but it's actual breaking point when testing will usually be greater than that limit by a factor of at least 10. So, your 1000 pound strap didn't break until 10,000 lbs in a test, but that does NOT mean you can use it to lift anything over 1000 lbs. That buffer is engineered to account for things like shock loading. Same goes for your truck. Sure, you can drag a 14,000 lb trailer with a tundra, but what happens when a cyclist or a kid bolts in front of you? Are your brakes going to be able to stop that extra weight that they weren't designed to cover? Or how about you hit a pot hole? Will your suspension components be able to take that kind of a shock load with a weight that is beyond it'd designed tolerance?

Long story short, stick to the manufacturer's numbers. If you just have to have a trailer that exceeds those numbers, then you need to get a bigger truck. Lots of members have done it. Lots of idiots go over the numbers too. Your choice, but you could irreparably harm others with your choice.

 

Your questions -

1. The CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity) plus the UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight or Dry Weight) I think equals the trailer GVWR. The most it should weigh. The weight of your propane tanks, battery, anything you carry in your tanks and stuff you load in the TT all count towards your CCC. So your trailer GVWR is 7600 lbs and should be printed on the side of the unit. This looks good against your max tow weight of 8900 lbs.
2. The hitch weight is the weight transferred to the truck from the trailer. It counts against your max payload of 1100 lbs plus the weight of the WDH, people and anything else you load in the truck - a full gas tank is already figured in so you don't have to add that. When you get to max payload, your truck should be at max GVWR if your fuel tank is full, the most it should weigh.
3. The WDH transfers some of the weight from the rear axle of the truck to the front axle. It also transfers some weight back to the trailer axles. On my TT, the stated hitch weight is with the WDH in place based on what I have seen in my data. The static hitch weight is more (i.e. scale under the hitch unhooked from the truck). I have measured both.
4. The location of the axles on the TT should already be figured into the numbers quoted by the manufacturer.

Also, your static hitch weight needs to be 10-15% (rule of thumb) of your total trailer weight to avoid excessive sway so you can't just load up the back of the trailer to reduce your hitch weight.

 

Always remember too, if you have an emergency you have to stop it. Pulling it & stopping are 2 different animals. Err on the side of safety.

 

I have researched this, done the CAT scale measurements, run all the numbers and towed the trailers. I am going to invoke the wrath of the tow police but I have to tell you that most Tundra owners that tow would say that this size trailer is no problem. They wouldn't even think beyond the max tow limit. Lots & lots & lots & lots of people are towing this size trailer with a Tundra. What the deep dive in the numbers tells you is that you are near your max capacity....you have to watch the sway, you can't run it at 75 mph, you need to be careful of strong cross-winds, you need to keep your Tundra and trailer brakes in good shape, watch your tire inflation and you have to be careful how you load the truck and trailer. Folks giving it much less thought somehow do it successfully every day. Some people call this white knuckle driving....I call it paying attention.

 

Very nice setup!

 

I'm going with the short answer here. The salesman is full of shit.

 

Yes he is!! My wife a wants a mobile home camper. Lol. Hate when they say. But I did point out to him and his boss that the salesman was very wrong and your telling folks yes ur truck can pull that but they really can’t. Pretty shity

 

I went through the same thing. Show your wife the Grand Design Imagine XLS 22MLE and 22RBE and smaller Imagine TTs. It worked for me.

 

Well do. I look it up now. Thanks for the info!!

 

Ya some times it is better to go a little bit smaller/lighter then to have a white knuckle experience every time you want to drag your camper some where lol. That said these trucks do an amazing job with towing and controlling the trailer, but once you get outside of or very close to its spec limits that when trouble can arise.

Good luck with your camper search and keep up posted on what you decide to buy!

 

Thanks and I keep you posted

 

Is that the 2670MK?

 

Yes, it is.

 

RV sales folk are generally wildly optimistic about tow capabilities. Once you add water in any of the holding tanks at 9lbs per gallon, a generator for boondocking, a barbecue, tools, mats and chairs for outside, etc., you are way over your limits with a big trailer and a half ton pickup. Out west we have mountains in any direction with 4000 foot minimum climb...that's a whole nother issue. We have a fairly sizable hill near by, and every weekend during the summer it is strewn with dead trailers and tow rigs suffering fried transmission's from too big a trailer, in addition to the 'no cooling system maintenance' crowd. Around here anything over 20-22 feet really needs a 3/4 ton.

 

I was told that if your truck can tow 10,000 pounds they will push it right to the limits. Then it’s up to the owner of the camper to probably put weight out thur truck and camper.

 

Very nice. We have the same trailer.

 

How does it tow?

 

I have a 19 coachmen catalina 323bhds
7700 lbs I tow it all over no issues
The things I did was add air bags to my truck because the suspension was starting to get soft when you hit those bridge approaches and she would bounce. Also i have power stop truck/tow slotted and drilled rotors.
Both help.
I did read the owners manual and found some interesting info about tow haul mode.
Small hills and flat ground run in S5
Large hilly terrain run in S4
Pulled my camper this past weekend through the ozark mountains did both ways and s5 had to use the breaks more s4 transmission did all the work never passed 3 grand going down steep grades.

I

 

Great. How about yours?

 

When shopping for your trailer don’t go of the unloaded weight, go off of the max rated weight. Which for that camper is 7600lbs, which is well within what your tundra can tow, but depending on what you load in the truck/ how you load the trailer, you’ll be very close to max payload. This is where tongue weight is critical Loaded at 10% of 7600 is 760lbs which gives you approximately 300lbs of stuff you can put in the truck including you, but if you load everything right that trailer can be safely towed and come in under your trucks rated numbers. However loading the trailer closer to 15% you now have 1140lbs of tongue weight and will be over payload no mater what you do.

 

A couple more notes on trailer shopping ( I spent half of last year going down this rabbit hole)

1. Finding a layout you like without pull out will save you a lot of weight and is one less thing to deal with during set up/ take down. It is also one less thing to go wrong.
2. If you can’t find something you want without a pull out having access to beds/ bathroom without the pullout extended is a big plus for truck stop bathroom/ nap breaks.
3. Which actually should be number 1 don’t listen to the sales men, research what features are important and tell him what you want to see.
4. Depending on what type of camping you want to do, a duel element water heater can be a big plus and isn’t usually a feature on smaller trailers. Duel element just means it has a propane heating element and an electric heating element. If your going to be dry camping it’s not that big of a deal because you have to either carry gas for a generator or propane for the heaters. If you going to be hook up camping you’ll save propane by using the electric side of the water heater.
5. Solar prep does not mean it’s ready for solar panels, just that it has a plug for a solar trickle charger/ maintainer

 

As to number 1, the toughest part is convincing your wife you don't need a slide. I don't want one because we don't have power at our lake lot so you have to waste batteries to put it out and in every weekend. Also, it's easier for mice to get in that way. But she wants a nice spacious trailer, regardless of how heavy, expensive or impractical it will be.

Another rookie question for the group: can modern fridges be run on propane only with no batteries? My dad's 1985 Vanguard can but my aunts' 2007 (can't remember make or model) has a "safety feature" whereby there are solenoid valves on the propane line that close if the battery goes dead, such as if the trailer sits at the lake lot all summer. She can work around it by rigging up a big solar panel when she's out there but it's a pain in the butt I'd rather not have to deal with when I eventually buy a trailer.

 

The fridge needs minimal battery power to run off propane but it does need power for the control board.

That was a hard conversation with my wife to but I told her if she wants a slide we have to take 5’ off the length. We ended up without a slide but with a 26’ trailer and have been very happy.

 

I just went through this same process. I bought a 2018 Crewmax Limited. Payload is 1180lbs. We were also rv shopping. I told the wife we had to be under 5,000 dry. We found a 2008 Aerolite 24.5’ that is 4200lbs dry - 6000lbs GCVW. Always stored under roof and only used a week or two a year. The PO took extremely good care of it and it looks like new - it was cheap too! I bought an Equalizer hitch and it tows great. With the family in the truck and my kayak on a rack I am at max payload. I am sure the truck can do more but I would not want to.

just got back from setting it up at a local campground and the guy beside me was towing a Hugh Jayco bunkhouse (at least 32’) with several kayaks on a homemade rack on the back of the RV. Looked like a large family with a bunch of kids. Towing it with a Tundra - there is no way that guy is not overloaded!

Stick to the ratings - they are there for a reason.

 

My 2017 Jayco 242BHSW weighs 5400 dry , probably 6500 loaded with all our stuff , I also I have the E2 Trunnion Hitch , I chose the trunnion because it works better with Jayco's lower profile tongue . My tundra tows great , but I wouldn't want to tow a bigger or heavier trailer personally , I like the old school rule of staying below 80% of your trucks towing capacity when shopping for a trailer . Also remember manufactures tow ratings are based on flat load trailers , not taller travel trailers that bring huge wind resistance into play .

 

I would rather be over trucked than under trucked

 

Not to mention the civil liability if you get in a wreck and are towing above the rating.