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Shock Tuning

Discussion in 'Long Travel Suspension' started by osidepunker, Nov 18, 2019.

  1. Nov 21, 2019 at 6:22 AM
    #61
    osidepunker

    osidepunker [OP] OsidePunker

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    Yeah get some video of it working and lets see what its doing
     
  2. Nov 21, 2019 at 6:24 AM
    #62
    Sas

    Sas Humor is everywhere

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    Lost track after #1.
    Got it to load in Chrome BTW.
     
    Civiceg94[QUOTED] likes this.
  3. Nov 25, 2019 at 6:43 PM
    #63
    KevinK

    KevinK SGU - High Speed Overlander

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    I don’t have to think of ways to argue with you, it happens naturally ;)

    We just disagree on a fundamental theory of shock tuning is all. I’ll let other people decide if they want to research what causes high speed and low speed shaft velocity events.


    Ultimately you got your suspension working awesome and that’s what matters. You took it apart and figured out what works for you. Trial and error and educated guesses turned into calculated decisions and fine tuning. The information you’re sharing here is super valuable to a segment of users that doesn’t have great resources. Most shock tuning shops and even manufacturers are either focused on racing or street comfort. We lie in the middle of that and it’s sometimes hard to get tuners to understand it (as you already know from experience with other tuners).
     
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  4. Dec 10, 2019 at 5:29 PM
    #64
    831Tun

    831Tun heartless Bastrd

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    Update; I'm experiencing movement (twisting) in the frame around the engine. The leverage on the front components (coil bucket specifically) is 2:1. Being LT means the lever is longer so force is potentially greater. The solutions are (yes, multiple mods required) to add a brace over the top of the engine and reinforce/ brace the front frame ends. Additional bracing may be required on the bottom of the frame too.
    The coil bucket brace is not the ideal solution. A full engine cage would be much better but where does one stop?
     
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  5. Dec 10, 2019 at 6:21 PM
    #65
    KevinK

    KevinK SGU - High Speed Overlander

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    M1 Abrams?

    “...now one of the heaviest tanks in service...”
     
  6. Dec 10, 2019 at 6:24 PM
    #66
    Vizsla

    Vizsla ☠️☠️☠️

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    Me too. I’ve lost 2+ degrees camber on the passenger side, and almost 3 on the driver side. Driver side is tight to motor mount. Frame gets pulled 2nd week of January, and then fixed for good. Something like this.
    92C5AB8D-709F-4B90-9A63-F56A39777E3F.jpg
     
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  7. Dec 10, 2019 at 6:31 PM
    #67
    KevinK

    KevinK SGU - High Speed Overlander

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    So far that’s the most rigid looking one I’ve seen. Is that just connecting the coil buckets or does it also reach down to the frame or maybe bypass hoops?
     
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  8. Dec 10, 2019 at 6:45 PM
    #68
    831Tun

    831Tun heartless Bastrd

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    It's a custom one off for an LSK kit built by Kyle Green Fabrication.
     
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  9. Dec 11, 2019 at 4:52 AM
    #69
    osidepunker

    osidepunker [OP] OsidePunker

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    My frame is not twisting. You guys are overthinking this issue. Tie the frame ends together with a welded bumper and reinforce the lower frame cross member and you can set off your airbags without affecting your alignment
     
  10. Dec 12, 2019 at 12:08 PM
    #70
    papasmurf

    papasmurf Savage Fabrication

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    :anonymous:







    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  11. Dec 12, 2019 at 1:46 PM
    #71
    Limu

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    Love reading posts like this. Great info Oside.
     
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  12. Dec 12, 2019 at 3:13 PM
    #72
    Vizsla

    Vizsla ☠️☠️☠️

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    I know your going to like my engine brace.:D
     
  13. Dec 12, 2019 at 7:49 PM
    #73
    KevinK

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    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Dec 13, 2019 at 5:08 AM
    #74
    osidepunker

    osidepunker [OP] OsidePunker

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    I actually do like it. If its beefy enough it will help.

    But its gonna be damn heavy and damn expensive. An engine cage is a much better choice. Lighter and you can bump off the spindle. But MUCH more expensive. Everything is a compromise...
     
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  15. Nov 10, 2020 at 5:52 AM
    #75
    thrustmaster

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    Great information here that i'll add a few tips learned and passed down to me. you don't have to buy the expensive shock tools, you can make spanners from 3/16" plate, soft jaws from scrap aluminum, and almost everything else you need, but a good valve filling tool is important. When you are removing your shims i like to slide them off the shock shaft onto an old bolt so that the stack is kept in order on the bench. It's also best practice to put the shims back in the shock in the same orientation, IE heads or tails. Flipping a used shim over in the shock can cause it to fatigue and crack from bending the opposite way.
     
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  16. Nov 10, 2020 at 5:53 AM
    #76
    thrustmaster

    thrustmaster New Member

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    Edit, also a spotter and 3rd party video of the truck in action really helps for tuning. As you can see from the OP.
     
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  17. Aug 18, 2023 at 9:34 AM
    #77
    Krabell

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    Is this thread still alive? I’m looking for a baseline for my front lt kit. I’m haveing bouncing issues. I’ve adjusted the bypass in every direction and only get a stiffer more uncomfortable ride. I recently dropped the valving in my bypass a bit and it helped but still not happy. I ordered a #30 stack for the coilovers and will start there. If needed I’ll ramp up the valving on the bypass to handle all the rebound and compression. At this point it seems like too much valving between both shocks to get a comfortable ride. That’s just my starting point considering I’m new to valving. So many threads say to go super light on the c/o and use the bypass for everything.
     
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  18. Aug 18, 2023 at 9:37 AM
    #78
    Hbjeff

    Hbjeff New Member

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    Are your coilovers the clicker ones?
     
  19. Aug 18, 2023 at 9:45 AM
    #79
    831Tun

    831Tun heartless Bastrd

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    First off, what coils are you running. 30 stack sounds really thick/stiff.
    I don't know much about valving but it's something I've been playing with for a while. My Kings originally came with 600lb coils and a 20 stack. I've gone to a smaller diameter 700lb spring and added a flutter to the 20 stack. For me, I found it helpful to remove the bypass shocks and start tuning with just the coil overs. I'm still not done and haven't revalved the bypasses yet.
     
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  20. Aug 18, 2023 at 9:45 AM
    #80
    reywcms

    reywcms New Member

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    Did you slow the rebound down? This and compression made a massive difference for me. Even though I still need revalving
     
  21. Aug 18, 2023 at 2:35 PM
    #81
    Krabell

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    I’m running a 700 pound spring. The #30 stack is on kartech valving chart. It’s the lightest stack available with all shims being .008. I’m trying to make my coilover as light as possible so I can ramp up the bypass. Without the bypass installed the truck rides almost perfect with sharp hits still being rough which leads me to believe that it’s too much valving with both shocks up front. Right now I have the rebound 4 turns from open but I’ve tried every single click in every direction. I can’t touch the short compression tube or the ride quality really suffers.
     
  22. Aug 18, 2023 at 2:40 PM
    #82
    Krabell

    Krabell New Member

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    Yea I’ve tried it in almost every position possible. I can add compression in the long tube but anything added to the short tube really makes it ride terribly on the street. I’m the dirt it’s not horrible but washboard roads kill. I’d like to soften up the coilover and valve the bypass to be comfortable on the street and then be able to wrap up the compression when hitting the dirt. I live in Idaho as well so not much out here to really put the suspension to work so I’m not worried about moalimg it too soft and work out from there.
     
  23. Aug 18, 2023 at 2:44 PM
    #83
    Krabell

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    Yes they are. I have them backed all the way off to the softest setting. Looking to have my coilovers just hold up the truck but still take some heat away from the bypass. After talking to fox for some time they agreed the lightest stack would be a good starting spot. Just reaching out for suggestions and maybe someone else has tried it. I’ve read so many forums that say to take out almost all the valving in the C/O and let the bypass work
     
  24. Aug 18, 2023 at 2:53 PM
    #84
    reywcms

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    Closing the bypasses will make them more harsh lol. Open all the tubes and then see how it does. You’ll still need a revalve it sounds like.
     
  25. Aug 18, 2023 at 4:04 PM
    #85
    Krabell

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    Yea definitely. With everything open it’s not where I’d like it to be. Almost like riding around in a clapped out Honda drift car. Hopefully valving the coilovers light will alow me to control it more with the bypass in the dirt and feel like butter on the streets.
     
  26. Aug 19, 2023 at 7:23 AM
    #86
    snivilous

    snivilous snivspeedshop.com

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    I would reach out to a tuner that knows their shit, they can either rebuild the shocks for you or provide you with the valving to do it yourself.

    I've found doing the fine tuning can be fun and straight forward, but if your baseline isn't inherently good then it can be a waste of time. Earlier this month I rebuilt and revalved all the shocks on my buggy, and I sent the vehicle specs (spring, unsprung, motion ratio, ride height, wheel base, etc) and the valving they sent me back was utterly different even all the way down to what size springs each individual bypass tube was using. Point being, shocks are super complicated, and there's nearly infinite variables to adjust, and if tweaking the bypasses isn't doing enough then the greater whole needs to be baselined to something good.

    Since it sounds like you have Fox's, maybe reach out to Accutune. But the sky's the limit, SDG, KDM, or cheaper options like WheelEveryWeekend or McMasterFabber on Instagram. Just make sure who you send them to or who gives you the valving knows about valving, there's a big difference from just rebuilding a shock and changing the general stack to actually understanding everything.

    For some comparison, I run ADS on this vehicle and sent them everything and they sent me a datasheet with the valving, the bypass springs, bleed ports, bypass valve modifications, hell even down to how many turns on the bypass tubes to start. And it was completely different in every aspect versus what I was starting with, and my starting point rode a lot better than what yours sounds like. I think everyone should get their shocks serviced like this, let alone if the baseline is really far off like yours sounds like.

    PXL_20230731_022546094.jpg
     
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  27. Aug 23, 2023 at 6:07 AM
    #87
    KevinK

    KevinK SGU - High Speed Overlander

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    @Krabell I have a stupid question - do they have the right amount of nitrogen in them?
     
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  28. Aug 23, 2023 at 2:06 PM
    #88
    Krabell

    Krabell New Member

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    Im running 175psi in both shocks up front. Fox has said to go down to 150psi but I split the difference. Revalved the c/o bit still not happy with the ride. Going to work on fine tuning the bypass adjustments and see if that helps. Next thing I’m worried about is the dsc valves, might swap out the reservoir and delete them after talking to Accutune off-road. Said that could be limiting the oil flow into the reservoir mailing low speed harsh.
     
  29. Aug 24, 2023 at 8:53 AM
    #89
    KevinK

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    You might want to bump that down to the 150. Running it at 175 creates an artificial air spring effect inside the resi and makes it harder for the fluid to flow into it when the shaft moves into the shock body.

    The extra pressure can also push the seals against the inside of the resi body harder than intended and lead to sticktion which shows as a choppy or jittery movement through very small inputs like washboard.

    Small movement choppiness

     
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  30. Aug 24, 2023 at 10:39 AM
    #90
    reywcms

    reywcms New Member

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    If fox says got to 150 then why not lol. And as Kevin said more pressure isn't necessarily good
     
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