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Brakes.... I've got to be missing something - Update 18 July

Discussion in '1st Gen Tundras (2000-2006)' started by KMM696, Jun 8, 2019.

  1. Jun 8, 2019 at 4:05 PM
    #1
    KMM696

    KMM696 [OP] New Member

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    The brakes on my '06 Doublecab were starting to slowly head towards the floor when stopped. I assumed the master cylinder was starting to go, and bought a new one. Did the recommended bench bleed (more like a bench fill, but...) and installed it. Bled one of the fronts, went to the other front and snapped off the bleeder screw in the caliper. Took a closer look at both front calipers and realized they both looked awful, replaced both front calipers, rotors, pads and the hard lines into the calipers. I love living with road salt.

    Bled both fronts and the bleeder on the top of the MC with a vacuum bleeder. It is an odd looking part - bolted together instead of a one piece body like every other one I've worked with. Anyway, bleeding seemed to go normally, but brake pedal was now on the floor. Could pump it a few times to get some pressure, but not good. I decided I must have got a bad MC, ordered another one.

    Installed the new MC, bled again. With truck off I've got brake pressure, not great but some. With the truck running, the pedal hits the floor. The only thing I can think of that would do that is the booster, but I've never had one of those fail to know what the symptoms would be. If I step on the brake with the truck off, and then start it the pedal hits the floor.

    Am I headed in the right direction with the booster, or is there something else???

    Thanks

    Kevin
     
  2. Jun 8, 2019 at 4:14 PM
    #2
    Creatures 1982

    Creatures 1982 New Member

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    Start bleeding your brake at the farthest one from master cylinder.
    Normally it’s the passenger rear.
    Then drivers rear, passenger front drivers front to remove all air. Air will compress you have air in your brake lines.
    Good luck
     
    Aerindel and Black Wolf like this.
  3. Jun 8, 2019 at 4:58 PM
    #3
    Aerindel

    Aerindel New Member

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    You have to bleed the whole system, systematically.

    Screen Shot 2019-05-04 at 6.23.37 PM.jpg
     
  4. Jul 18, 2019 at 1:59 PM
    #4
    KMM696

    KMM696 [OP] New Member

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    Update:

    No good news.....

    I've never had air get into the rear of the system during caliper replacements on a system that hadn't been leaking, but after the 2nd MC changed nothing why not?? I despise working on drums, so brought it to my local shop. He was a Toyota mech before he started his own garage, should be perfect. Parking brake needed work anyway and in this road salt loving neighborhood that usually means change everything. He put new drums, shoes and cylinders in, bled all 4 - same smidgen of pedal pressure at the end I was getting. Bled and cycled the ABS widget on the top of the passenger wheel, no change. Bled all 4 again, no air in the lines and no brakes.. He has this positive pressure bleeder that I like much better than the vacuum bleeder I have - you can tell exactly what's coming out of the bleeder valves.

    He got another MC from a different supplier, came without the rear half of the cylinder, took it from one of the 'new' MCs, didn't help. He did find a procedure on how to bleed the MC bleeder valve, no luck there. This morning, I dropped off the original MC that started all this so he can pull the back off and compare plunger lengths. If this doesn't show anything obvious, he's ready to call it quits. He's got good troubleshooting skills, and is more frustrated over this truck than I was when I moved it to him. We're both at the same point - it's brakes, they just aren't that complicated.

    Both of us are thinking something else needs to happen with this MC - neither of us have worked on one that bolts together before. This little monster:

    [​IMG]

    I think we're both about out of brake fluid....

    Thanks

    Kevin
     
  5. Jul 19, 2019 at 12:20 AM
    #5
    Aerindel

    Aerindel New Member

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    "bled all 4 - same smidgen of pedal pressure at the end I was getting"

    What does this mean? Even with a great deal of air in the brake system pumping the brakes will build pressure until you have a firm brake (temporarily)

    Are you saying that the brakes never build pressure?

    By any chance are your rear brakes out of adjustment? Hydraulic brakes work by leveraging a large movement at low force, (your brake pedal) into a tiny amount of movement, less than a milimeter, at very high force. If the brakes are not adjusted properly the system will run out of play before the shoes make contact and build pressure.

    Your rear brakes adjust automatically, but only if your parking brake is working.

    How well does your parking brake work?
     
    tomsinamerica likes this.
  6. Jul 19, 2019 at 5:45 AM
    #6
    Gotyour6

    Gotyour6 New Member

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    Drive real fast, slam on the brakes, drive real fast, slam on the brakes,\\\


    Bleed again starting from the back.
     
  7. Jul 19, 2019 at 6:00 AM
    #7
    KMM696

    KMM696 [OP] New Member

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    I'm going to say that the rear brakes, with the new cylinders, drums, shoes and hardware my mechanic Tim put in a couple days ago, are not out of adjustment. My parking brake now works as advertised. That and shoe adjustment was one of the reasons he elected to go through the rears.

    The truck gets a little brake action just before the pedal hits the floor. And as attractive as it would be to slam on the brakes, that's not currently possible right now. Between my bleeding and his, I think the truck has seen 2 gallons of brake fluid run through in the last couple weeks. Tim is confident there's no air in the system.
     
  8. Jul 19, 2019 at 6:44 AM
    #8
    Black@Blue19

    Black@Blue19 Old Salt

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    To much to list:)
    This is why I just take my things right to the shop and let them do, everything is under warranty and not that my time is important anymore they don’t need to know that and I get a vehicle to drive around if it takes more than a day. Best of luck to you??
     
  9. Jul 20, 2019 at 1:34 PM
    #9
    TRD Pro Rookie

    TRD Pro Rookie New Member

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    Nothing major
    I' guessing a failed booster.
     
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  10. Sep 2, 2019 at 9:40 PM
    #10
    artsr2002

    artsr2002 2005 Tundra DC SR5

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    I replaced the MC on my 2006 DC after the brake pedal started going to the floor and had to double pump the brakes to actually start braking without the pedal going to the floor. The MC that I ordered on rockauto only was the front portion with the reservoir on top not the back part. I bench bled the MC and installed it myself followed by bleeding the 4 brake lines. It didn't fix the problem. The pedal became a little bit firmer after bleeding the system but not so good still. Recently, I replaced the booster and had the local dealership bleed the brakes and ABS module as well as adjust the rear drums and the pedal is nice and firm now without going to the floor. Just an FYI. Thanks.
     
  11. Sep 2, 2019 at 9:53 PM
    #11
    Darkness

    Darkness Allergic to white

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    I'm about to do my booster too. Sometimes it seems okay, other times it seems like my brakes aren't working. I can hear it his when I'm at a stop sometimes, must be leaking vacuum.
     
  12. Sep 3, 2019 at 12:09 AM
    #12
    Winning8

    Winning8 New Member

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    I think the front part is the Brake Proportioning Valve, did you change that part also.
     
  13. Sep 3, 2019 at 12:46 AM
    #13
    artsr2002

    artsr2002 2005 Tundra DC SR5

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    No, the MC that I ordered was just the front most portion. The part in the back, between the MC and the Booster is still the factory part. Once, I changed the booster and had the system/abs module bled by the dealership, the brake pedal firmed up.
     
  14. Sep 3, 2019 at 9:00 AM
    #14
    KMM696

    KMM696 [OP] New Member

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    Interesting.... haven't done anything with the booster on mine. I'm a little confused by how it didn't show signs of failure before starting brake work, but now is - but I can't say I've got a good mental picture of how vacuum boosters are put together. Is it sealing around the MC shaft, and an old original seal can't cope with the shaft going in and out during installation??
     
  15. Sep 3, 2019 at 9:04 AM
    #15
    15whtrd

    15whtrd Mr. Blonde

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    Something I’ve learned fairly recently. When bleeding an old master cylinder you should not push the pedal any further than its typical throw. Pushing the pedal further puts the shaft and seal in new territory and can cause the master cylinder to fail. This causes premature failure of the master cylinder. Last time I bled the brakes I put a 2 x 4 under the pedal to keep it in its typical throw pattern.
     
  16. Sep 3, 2019 at 10:23 PM
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    MrDirtjumper

    MrDirtjumper Ol’ dickhead

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    What 2006 do you know of that is still under warranty?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
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  17. Sep 3, 2019 at 11:12 PM
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    PenderBen

    PenderBen Forum lurker…

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    I’m not sure I should even chime in on this, having zero experience with Tundra brakes; as was mentioned above, some systems with ABS can be problematic and the ABS can get air in them that can be trickier to bleed.
    Have you tried taking it to a proper brake shop and having them bleed it?
    I’m all for diy and do most of my own work, but some times the right people with the right equipment can make a challenging job easy.
     
  18. Sep 4, 2019 at 6:53 AM
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    Festerw

    Festerw New Member

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    Pretty sure he meant the work performed is warrantied. Like I took my 04 to the dealer to have the axle bearings done so if they screwed it up the first time it's up to them to make it right.
     
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  19. Sep 6, 2019 at 10:02 AM
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    Chuck W.

    Chuck W. New Member

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    I just found this forum.... very cool. I have a 2001 Tundra SR5 Extended Cab I bought new. It is sitting at 109,500 miles and is a great truck.

    Anyway, two weeks ago I decided to change my master cylinder because of a leak and soft brakes. I bought a Raybesto MC from RockAuto. I did all of the bench bleeding, bled it once installed and bled all four brakes.... & the pedal went to the floor. I trouble shot it for a day and gave up and took it to an independent shop with a great reputation. They re-bled everything, tighten down some fittings and adjusted the rear drum brakes.... and that was it. My brakes are as good as new. I can't tell you what to do, only that this may be one of those things a pro needs to finish off. This was the first time I had to throw in the towel and it work out OK.... $155 later!
     
  20. Sep 6, 2019 at 8:58 PM
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    Aerindel

    Aerindel New Member

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    Its the rear show adjustment....hard to do manually, easy to do if you just adjust the parking brake properly so it works as intended and auto adjusts your brake shoes.
     
  21. Nov 29, 2019 at 9:36 AM
    #21
    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    Chuckie. Did your parking brake work properly prior to you doing work? Does it work better now, or the same as before?
     
  22. Nov 29, 2019 at 4:56 PM
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    Chuck W.

    Chuck W. New Member

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    The parking brake worked well prior to the adjustment. However, after the shop worked on the brakes I noted that the parking brake was higher than before. Reading all of the post since I had this done it appears that having the rear drum brakes adjusted properly and the parking brake adjusted correctly is the key.
     

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